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Paul Stastny+ for Joe Colborne+

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Old
07-04-2012, 08:20 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by jfisher6 View Post
A lot of leafs fans seem to think otherwise. Why else would we see these Stastny proposals every week?

It's because he's a good to excellent center with playmaking skills, defensively responsible, and is able to score at a PPG clip (he did it for 2 seasons and almost a 3rd) with mediocre wingers.

He struggled for 2 seasons and now Leafs fans think they can snag him for less than he's worth.


It's only less than he's worth to you because you have convinced yourself that he is a #1C.

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07-04-2012, 08:23 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
So Parenteau's only had 1 good season - even though his last 2 year point total (120 pts) and his last season (67pts) was higher then Grabovski (108, 58), Kulemin (85/57) or MacArthur (105/62) best year(s). And his 2 good seasons are a fluke, but Grabo, Kuli and MacA's 2 good seasons (1 in Kuli's case) are evidence that they are valuable top 6 wingers. I just wanted to check to see if I got that right.

Add to the above argument that Stastny's value is low because he's had 2 down years after 3 great years (2 years of fairly difficult hockey for the whole Avs organization I might add), but Grabo and MacA's value is high when they've only had 2 good seasons that are comparable to Stastny's down years.

Stastny is a very good 200 ft. player who would be a 1st line C on 15 teams in the NHL and a top 6 on 28 teams. His value is very high based on the position he plays, his age and his proven ability. The only downside of Stastny is his cap hit, but that isn't an issue for the Avs because they're closer to the floor then the cap so it's not an issue at all. To another team with limited cap space it could be a negative but that is the other teams issue, not Colorado's. To the Avs Stastny is worth nearly as much as Richards, and about the same as Carter.
I agree with 100% of these things. Except that I would prefer Stastny over Carter due to character. Stas is such a great guy to have in our locker room. He's a leader and an example maker, and somewhat of a veteran in there too, even at the young age of 26

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07-04-2012, 08:29 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by JVRallday View Post
Stastny is overrated and would never get back Phaneuf in a trade. Grabovski puts up the same production as Stastny (and at a lower cap hit) anyway.
Production! We talking Production!

Statsny 427GM 126G 248A 374P +4 .30GPG .58 APG .88 PPG

Kessel 456GM 165G 162A 327P -33 .36GPG .36APG .72PPG

Did you guys give up 2 1sts and a 2nd for Grabovski also.

Cause an effective center has more value than a scoring winger with no defence.

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07-04-2012, 08:39 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Production! We talking Production!

Statsny 427GM 126G 248A 374P +4 .30GPG .58 APG .88 PPG

Kessel 456GM 165G 162A 327P -33 .36GPG .36APG .72PPG

Did you guys give up 2 1sts and a 2nd for Grabovski also.

Cause an effective center has more value than a scoring winger with no defence.
Kessel's stock is raising while Statsny's stock is falling.
But what the hell does Kessel have to do with anything ?

Who cares about 1st round draft picks. You guys have had how many of the best 1st round picks for how many years straight.... I guess a better question would be for how many more ?

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Old
07-04-2012, 08:42 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfisher6 View Post
A lot of leafs fans seem to think otherwise. Why else would we see these Stastny proposals every week?

It's because he's a good to excellent center with playmaking skills, defensively responsible, and is able to score at a PPG clip (he did it for 2 seasons and almost a 3rd) with mediocre wingers.

He struggled for 2 seasons and now Leafs fans think they can snag him for less than he's worth.
His value is reflective of both his ability to be a point-per-game player, and ability to be a $6.6m 50-60 point guy. That same valuation is held by Colorado. Nobody in the organization is going to value him as the player expected to put up 80 points next year, just like nobody is going to value him as the player expected to put up 50.

Chances are, it'll be somewhere in between, with Toronto probably having a higher valuation than Colorado, simply because he'd play with Kessel in Toronto, and fight for ice time with Duchene and O'Reilly in Colorado.

The problem is -- throwing bias aside and finding something that works. Colorado is in the process of putting together a pretty good young team, so if they're going to trade their most experienced centre, they've gotta get guys that can play, help them compete in a ridiculous Northwest Conference, but also fit in with the team they're trying to build.

Toronto's got pieces that can help, like Kadri, Connolly (who does a decent job of replacing Stastny's role while saving them some money), Kulemin and/or MacArthur. But none of those guys are the immediate impact players that are going to get them into the playoffs this year, especially because the Avs depth is decent. They might be able to make a small immidiate upgrade, but certainly not the home run that will satisfy hfboards posters.

I suspect the Avs can do better with Stastny. You look at a team like Anaheim who has Bobby Ryan on the block. We've all heard the Philly connections, but to me Anaheim seems like it might be a better fit if they're willing to spend money (A big if). An aging Saku Koivu is their #2 centre. They're at risk of losing both Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry to free agency.

I don't think Philly's going to be that enthusiastic about parting with Schenn or Couturier, which brings into question just how much they can help Anaheim in a Bobby Ryan trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
Well if you guys are allowed to call Stastny a legit #1 C we are allowed to call Grabo a legit #1 C. So Grabo is the answer to your question, Sir.
What's the point in arguing over semantics? If you go by top 30 centres in the league, then yes, they're probably both #1 centres. If you go by what a team who is strong up the middle would have as their #1 centre, then no, neither of them are #1 centres.

Simple fact is, Stastny would be the #1 centre in Toronto. He's a natural fit with Kessel, unlike Grabovski. In Colorado, he falls somewhere in a "by committee" approach of 3, while being the oldest and highest paid means he's the most expendable of the 3.


Last edited by seanlinden: 07-04-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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Old
07-04-2012, 09:03 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Blue Dragon View Post
Makes no sense for the Avs for 3 reasons:
1) We take a large downgrade at center for wingers I am not sure are better than what we already have.
2) Hejduk has a full No Movement Clause and doesn't want to leave the only NHL franchise he has known.
3) Colorado's main needs are a top pairing D or an ELITE goalscoring winger.
+1

Hypothetically if this were to happen, I would be demanding a first round pick in return to start. Burke was burned once already but maybe his inflated ego will lead him to believe his team will finish at the top of the standings. Plus his love affair with yanks will lead to him to overalue Stastny.

BUT in reality Stastny is going nowhere unless the return is substantial. The leafs don't have anyone other than Kessel that would benefit the Avs at this time.

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Old
07-04-2012, 09:21 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
i ve got a counteroffer for you:

Cody McLeod, Chuck Kobasew, Brad Malone, Mark Olver, Luke Walker, Trevor Cann, Joachim Nermark,Justin Mercier, Dwight Condon and a 4th for Kulemin and Kadri .
As bad as that bunch of ***** are I bet at least two will end up having way better NHL careers than Kadri.

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07-04-2012, 09:29 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
As bad as that bunch of ***** are I bet at least two will end up having way better NHL careers than Kadri.
What else do you see in your crystal ball?

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Old
07-05-2012, 10:03 AM
  #184
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Since Toronto won't give up anything as valuable as Bozak and Komisarek, I guess the Avs would settle for something like Kessel or Gardiner for Staz.

EDIT: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...53&postcount=1

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07-05-2012, 10:07 AM
  #185
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Grabo + Gunner, if no Gardiner is involved.

No interest in anything else the Leafs have, minus Kessel of course.

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Old
07-05-2012, 10:29 AM
  #186
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Oh gee, another Stastny to Toronto thread

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07-05-2012, 10:35 AM
  #187
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I love Statsny and I would be willing to give alot to Colorado to get him on the Leafs, but the only way I see that he will be available is if both Reilley and Duchene outplay him into the trade deadline or if he himself asks for a trade. Otherwise I don't think a deal make sense because Colorado fans seem to scoff at even Gardiner + Kulemin.

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07-05-2012, 10:43 AM
  #188
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Not that I'll get too in depth here but it's disgusting how much HF under-rates Kulemin. A year ago half of you would have killed to get the guy now he's garbage right? Just another case of "what have you done for me lately". This disease is spread throughout HF. Statsnys in a similar boat. Guy puts up 79 points-OMG this guys awesome. Puts up under 60 points-What a bum! look at that cap hit! OMGZ

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07-05-2012, 10:51 AM
  #189
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If a deal like this happens I suspect it will be for Bozak/Franson/Kadri.

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07-05-2012, 11:51 AM
  #190
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Why are Avs fans acting like they're strong on the wing?

Landeskog is great, yes and Parenteau was a good pickup (although without Tavares, he'll likely regress). But here's how many goals/assists the rest of their top wingers scored last season:

McGinn: 20/17
Jones: 20/17
Hejduk: 14/23
Downie: 14/27

I'm struggling to see how Macarthur isn't an upgrade over all of these guys.

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07-05-2012, 11:56 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Why are Avs fans acting like they're strong on the wing?

Landeskog is great, yes and Parenteau was a good pickup (although without Tavares, he'll likely regress). But here's how many goals/assists the rest of their top wingers scored last season:

McGinn: 20/17
Jones: 20/17
Hejduk: 14/23
Downie: 14/27

I'm struggling to see how Macarthur isn't an upgrade over all of these guys.
Macarthur had 6 more points then Jones/McGinn and only 2 more then Downie. That isn't really a big difference. I'd rather see what McGinn /Downie can do with a full year in Colorado.

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07-05-2012, 11:56 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Why are Avs fans acting like they're strong on the wing?

Landeskog is great, yes and Parenteau was a good pickup (although without Tavares, he'll likely regress). But here's how many goals/assists the rest of their top wingers scored last season:

McGinn: 20/17
Jones: 20/17
Hejduk: 14/23
Downie: 14/27

I'm struggling to see how Macarthur isn't an upgrade over all of these guys.
Jones has more goals that last couple of seasons and just signed a two year deal. Downie just signed a two year deal and is a valuable part of the O'Reilly-Landeskog Line. Hejduk had a down year, but is one of the organization's all-time leading goal scorers. McGinn is an RFA that likely will be signed for a multiple year deal, and he appears to have just scratched the surface of his goal scoring abilities.

McArthur has scored 20 goals twice in his career and his a UFA after this season.

I find it interesting that in most Leaf proposals, they throw out names like Connolly, Lupul, McArthur, Bozak, and Lombardi, all of whom are signed for only one more season before UFA status.

So Colorado gives up the best player in the proposals and also receives an asset/player back that is only signed for one more season.

Not to mention that trading Stastny would force the Avs to sign someone else to reach the new cap floor in all liklihood. There are just so many negatives to these types of proposals that it doesn't even bear a discussion.

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07-05-2012, 12:14 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
I'm struggling to see how Macarthur isn't an upgrade over all of these guys.
Even if by some miracle none of those guys are better than MacArthur next season, surely you can't be struggling to see why we shouldn't move our #1 center for the smallest of upgrades on wing?

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Old
07-05-2012, 12:22 PM
  #194
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Trading Stastny for 3 people, where the centerpiece is Colbourne?

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07-05-2012, 12:33 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by JVRallday View Post


It's only less than he's worth to you because you have convinced yourself that he is a #1C.
Then why do you Leaf fans and reportedly (could be a rumor, not sure) Burke keep asking for Stas. He is a #1 C (not top tier like Stamkos, Malkin, Datsyuk and Toews). He's had 3 70+ seasons, and 2 55+. And the season where he was hurt I believe he was around .8points a game. Look, maybe we're 'overvaluing' Stas but if we believe he is a #1 C and you don't, then screw off. We don't want any more proposals. Until Sherman thinks he gets fair value for Stas (I don't think he's looking) then it's all irrelevant anyways. Talk about beating a dead horse.

Edit: Not directed at you, just saying this proposal has been done one too many times.

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07-05-2012, 12:33 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by trickster View Post
If a deal like this happens I suspect it will be for Bozak/Franson/Kadri.
That is synonymous with saying that a deal won't happen. Stastny is still a very effective hockey player, and I emphasize hockey player.

I suspect he has more value to NHL owners and scouts than some here would like to think.

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07-05-2012, 12:36 PM
  #197
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Stastny + prospectx2 + 2nd for Kulemin and Gardnier.

Leafs gets their #1 Center, gets some restocking prospects+pick as well.
Avs gets a replacement center that should be alright in the 3rd line, gets a potential top 4 dman.

Leafs fans will burn this post because it's fair.

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07-05-2012, 12:39 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by JAK View Post
Stastny + prospectx2 + 2nd for Kulemin and Gardnier.

Leafs gets their #1 Center, gets some restocking prospects+pick as well.
Avs gets a replacement center that should be alright in the 3rd line, gets a potential top 4 dman.

Leafs fans will burn this post because it's fair.
How is that fair?

That's less going to Colorado then Richards returned and more coming from Colorado than Philly sent to LA.

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Old
07-05-2012, 12:40 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAK View Post
Stastny + prospectx2 + 2nd for Kulemin and Gardnier.

Leafs gets their #1 Center, gets some restocking prospects+pick as well.
Avs gets a replacement center that should be alright in the 3rd line, gets a potential top 4 dman.

Leafs fans will burn this post because it's fair.
What center? Kulemin is a winger.

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Old
07-05-2012, 12:52 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
No Bozak?!
Yeah, without Bozak involved this is an obvious non-starter for the Avs...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...53&postcount=1

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