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Old
01-07-2005, 04:47 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
I never said Steen wasn't any of those things did I?

I pick Kesler, you are going to have to get used to that. It is really hard to have a dicussion about two players that you have in your name. Slight bias maybe?
If Steen is all those things you described about Kesler... and he has higher potential than Kesler, why choose Kesler?

Yes, I like Steen and Colaiacovo, my two favourite prospects in the world... but bias has nothing to do with it. It's obvious who are the better prospects.

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01-07-2005, 04:49 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
I would take him over both Steen and Colaiacovo
I agree with that. For me, Steen and Kesler is practically a wash ... but Kesler's quick development and size must be considered. Carlo Cola doesn't do a thing for me.

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01-07-2005, 04:50 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl O'Steen
bias has nothing to do with it. .
No, of course it doesn't.

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01-07-2005, 04:52 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazmin
I agree with that. For me, Steen and Kesler is practically a wash ... but Kesler's quick development and size must be considered. Carlo Cola doesn't do a thing for me.
Steen and Kesler isn't a watch.

Steen is the better prospect... his potential is higher and he's as safe a bet to make the NHL as Kesler... even though Ryan Kesler's already played there, 28 whole games.

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Old
01-07-2005, 05:03 PM
  #30
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By the way, you're cute little poll isn't going to change my mind about Steen and Kesler. I am sure you and many other will pick him over Kesler, but I won't. I hope that doesn't chap your ass to much.

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01-07-2005, 05:06 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl O'Steen
Steen and Kesler isn't a watch.

Steen is the better prospect... his potential is higher and he's as safe a bet to make the NHL as Kesler... even though Ryan Kesler's already played there, 28 whole games.
Nice job contradicting yourself, or trying to be-little the fact that Steen has never played in the NHL, and Kesler has....

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01-07-2005, 05:07 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
By the way, you're cute little poll isn't going to change my mind about Steen and Kesler. I am sure you and many other will pick him over Kesler, but I won't. I hope that doesn't chap your ass to much.
My poll isn't supposed to change your mind... anyone who thinks Spezza + Havlat is worth Jarome Iginla isn't really worth discussing hockey with.

From now on, anytime I pick Steen and or Colaiacovo in a poll, you're going to think it's because I'm a fan of theirs? Just because my handle is Carl O'Steen?


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01-07-2005, 05:10 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl O'Steen
My poll isn't supposed to change your mind... anyone who thinks Spezza + Havlat is worth Jarome Iginla isn't really worth discussing hockey with.

From now on, anytime I pick Steen and or Colaiacovo in a poll, you're going to think it's because I'm a fan of theirs? Just because my handle is Carl O'Steen?

Yes.
Also, if I was a Flames fan, I would have a tough time moving Iggy for Spezza and Havlat. Havlat gets points, Spezza probably will, but Iginla is Iginla. Simple as that.

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Old
01-07-2005, 05:12 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl O'Steen
From now on, anytime I pick Steen and or Colaiacovo in a poll, you're going to think it's because I'm a fan of theirs? Just because my handle is Carl O'Steen?
It sure shows a massive bias doesn't it?

The whole Iginla thing.. please.

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Old
01-07-2005, 05:24 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
It was dumb of you to use Tambellini as your example. He is doing relatively unimpressively at the NCAA. Kesler, two years ago, scored 31 points in 41 NCAA games while Tambellini only has 27 points in 39 games.

Kesler is one of the top 20 scorers in the AHL and everything else imaginable.

You lack a knowledge of both Kesler and the truth.
Sorry, my mistake. I should have remembered to put the sarcasm tag on that post.

But you make a good point none the less. When you put all the arguments that have been used against the Kesler pick together, it sounds pretty illogical doesn't it?

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Old
01-07-2005, 05:42 PM
  #36
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i wasn't happy with the pick at the time, and was pushing for Stewart. but he's changed my mind since i first saw him in training camp. the kid is a warrior, the type every contending team needs desperately... especially the Canucks. scorers are a dime a dozen, but heart and soul players are a commodity.

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01-07-2005, 06:13 PM
  #37
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It seems that one in three Canuck draft picks are billed as "the next Trevor Linden", and in general it's a bad sign (didn't we say this about Josh Holden? yikes)...but with Kesler I actually see the similarities. Marc Crawford described him as a young Adam Deadmarsh at his first camp, which also seems apt.

I think a lot of people were put off Kesler because the first thing Pierre McGuire said on TSN once the pick was made was "he won't be a top-6 forward..." but I doubt Pierre knew what he was talking about.

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Old
01-07-2005, 06:19 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl O'Steen
My poll isn't supposed to change your mind... anyone who thinks Spezza + Havlat is worth Jarome Iginla isn't really worth discussing hockey with.
I have to take issue with you there...Iginla is not just a good player who puts a staggering amount of points and clutch performances in. There's a lot more to him. Not saying that Havlat and Spezza don't have similar qualities, but Iginla is Iginla...personally, if I was the Flames GM, you couldn't take Iggy away from me without offering almost your whole team. He's that damn good, in my opinion--and I'm a Canuck fan who watched him almost single handedly kick my team out of the playoffs. So go figure!

As for Ryan Kesler, I admit freely, he wasn't my first choice in the 2003 draft(granted he was my No. 2, but really). I would have liked Sullivan better at the time, although now, it's a toss up. I really like what I saw from Kesler in some select games last year: he's got speed, he's got tenacity, he's got a good--albeit raw--offensive touch, and he's got great vision on the ice. And he was decent physically now. To hear he's put on about 20 lbs is awesome news to me, because Kesler could be a wrecking ball with that size and his wheels combined.

I cruised through the Moose message boards as well, and all the fans are thrilled with him. He does it all for them as far as clutch play, steady two-way play and leadership goes. It gives me great hope for his future NHL career. I honestly don't know enough about Alexander Steen to say whether I'd take Kesler over him or not, but I'd definitely take Kesler over Colaiacovvo(sp?)

~Canucklehead~

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Old
01-07-2005, 06:31 PM
  #39
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Kesler is a lot bigger than Steen. Steen at is 5'10 and about 180 while Kesler is 6'2 and 210. Kesler has been tested against in North American pro game and suceeded while Steen hasn't been so tested. Big question on Steen is can he take on the physical play in the NHL. Until that question is answered Steen's NHL potential is based on suppostion. Have a much solider basis for saying Kesler is more NHL ready.

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Old
01-07-2005, 07:18 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Sorry, my mistake. I should have remembered to put the sarcasm tag on that post.

But you make a good point none the less. When you put all the arguments that have been used against the Kesler pick together, it sounds pretty illogical doesn't it?
I am sorry. Didn't realize you were being sarcastic.

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Old
01-07-2005, 07:19 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown
Kesler is a lot bigger than Steen. Steen at is 5'10 and about 180 while Kesler is 6'2 and 210. Kesler has been tested against in North American pro game and suceeded while Steen hasn't been so tested. Big question on Steen is can he take on the physical play in the NHL. Until that question is answered Steen's NHL potential is based on suppostion. Have a much solider basis for saying Kesler is more NHL ready.
Steen is 6'0, 183 lbs. Thought I'd get than in here before Leafaholix rips you for it.

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Old
01-07-2005, 07:22 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl O'Steen
If Steen is all those things you described about Kesler... and he has higher potential than Kesler, why choose Kesler?

Yes, I like Steen and Colaiacovo, my two favourite prospects in the world... but bias has nothing to do with it. It's obvious who are the better prospects.
Why do you think Steen has higher potential than Kesler?

Is it because you're biased?

Ryan Kesler has proved a lot in the AHL this year and I think AHL stats give a better indication of a prospect's ability to produce in the NHL even if the SEL has better overall talent. I also think the AHL is slightly more competitive than the SEL because of the attention to defense, intense physical play and the length of a full season.

If both players have excelled in the respective leagues (AHL & SEL), but Kesler is younger and bigger than Steen, then there is no reason for you to believe Steen has more potential.

Kesler has also proved it in the NHL and led his country to a WJC gold medal.

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01-07-2005, 07:30 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Why do you think Steen has higher potential than Kesler?

Is it because you're biased?

Ryan Kesler has proved a lot in the AHL this year and I think AHL stats give a better indication of a prospect's ability to produce in the NHL even if the SEL has better overall talent. I also think the AHL is slightly more competitive than the SEL because of the attention to defense, intense physical play and the length of a full season.

If both players have excelled in the respective leagues (AHL & SEL), but Kesler is younger and bigger than Steen, then there is no reason for you to believe Steen has more potential.

Kesler has also proved it in the NHL and led his country to a WJC gold medal.
Im not biased in any way and I think Steen most definately has the higher upside. He is playing in a mens league for the 3rd straight year, playing this year with scrubs who couldnt score into an empty net. Nothing against Kesler, who as I've said before will be a good 3rd liner(and probable captain) for years to come, but Steen has the ability to bring nearly the same intangibles while providing more offense. And Kesler hardly lead the US to the gold...Parise and Montoya did .

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01-07-2005, 07:35 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Im not biased in any way and I think Steen most definately has the higher upside. He is playing in a mens league for the 3rd straight year, playing this year with scrubs who couldnt score into an empty net. Nothing against Kesler, who as I've said before will be a good 3rd liner(and probable captain) for years to come, but Steen has the ability to bring nearly the same intangibles while providing more offense. And Kesler hardly lead the US to the gold...Parise and Montoya did .
So 33 points in 34 AHL as a 20 year old (the 2nd youngest player in the AHL top 20 scorers list) against superior talent...

...means Kesler's potential is only a 3rd liner?

I think you are taking too much of what has been said of him in the past and ignoring his current stats and future possibilities.

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Old
01-07-2005, 07:41 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
So 33 points in 34 AHL as a 20 year old (the 2nd youngest player in the AHL top 20 scorers list) against superior talent...

...means Kesler's potential is only a 3rd liner?

I think you are taking too much of what has been said of him in the past and ignoring his current stats and future possibilities.
Plenty of players score a lot in the AHL and go on to be no more than 3rd liners in the NHL(Madden immediately comes to mind). I think you are taking too much of his current stats and ignoring what was said of him by scouts in the past.

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Old
01-07-2005, 07:46 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Plenty of players score a lot in the AHL and go on to be no more than 3rd liners in the NHL(Madden immediately comes to mind). I think you are taking too much of his current stats and ignoring what was said of him by scouts in the past.
You are wrong again.

Madden scored 56 points in 74 AHL games as a 23 year old against regular AHL talent.

Kesler is on pace to score 72 points in 74 AHL games as a 20 year old against superior AHL talent.

He has 33 points in 34 games. The 2nd youngest player on the AHL's top 20 scorers.

On top of that, Kesler plays a shut-down defensive role against the other teams' top lines and he does not play with Sarno or King. He plays with Lee Goren and is also an anchor on the PK.

Players change, develop and become better. I hope you realize that.

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Old
01-07-2005, 07:48 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
You are wrong again.

Madden scored 56 points in 74 AHL games as a 23 year old against regular AHL talent.

Kesler is on pace to score 72 points in 74 AHL games as a 20 year old against superior AHL talent.

He has 33 points in 34 games. The 2nd youngest player on the AHL's top 20 scorers.

Players change, develop and become better. I hope you realize that.
Ah the famous on pace argument. Sure players develop and get better. But they generally have something to start with. Scorers always have the talent...it doesnt just come out of nowhere when they are 20 years old in the AHL.

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01-07-2005, 07:50 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Ah the famous on pace argument. Sure players develop and get better. But they generally have something to start with. Scorers always have the talent...it doesnt just come out of nowhere when they are 20 years old in the AHL.
Exactly. That talent doesn't come out of nowhere and it is quite obvious that Kesler has this talent.

You just contradicted yourself and every anti-Kesler comment in this thread.

Thank you.

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Old
01-07-2005, 07:55 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Exactly. That talent doesn't come out of nowhere and it is quite obvious that Kesler has this talent.

You just contradicted yourself and every anti-Kesler comment in this thread.

Thank you.
Oh, so because he's had a good 30 games or so, all of a sudden, despite everything that was said about him before being drafted, he all of a sudden has the talent? Please. Nice spin job though.

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Old
01-07-2005, 07:58 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos
Plenty of players score a lot in the AHL and go on to be no more than 3rd liners in the NHL(Madden immediately comes to mind). I think you are taking too much of his current stats and ignoring what was said of him by scouts in the past.
not that i don't agree with you that often players who score at the AHL level can't convert in the NHL, however Madden is a bad example as he was a scorer who was converted into a checker. he could be a scoring forward if he wasn't as valuable as he is as a checker. and that's what i feel will be Kesler's outcome as well.

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