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Old
07-08-2012, 10:43 PM
  #51
Zetterberg4Captain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
But...but...but..he's got three more points a year than Quincey, is two inches taller and eight pounds heavier! Certainly he's better!!
come on man, you dont honestly think quincey = bouwmeester do you?

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07-08-2012, 10:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Bouwmeester is a quality NHL defenseman.
No, he doesn't hit. No, he's not fierce. But he's a quality D who plays a lot of quality minutes.

Quincey and a 2nd rate prospect for Bouwmeester? Sure.
Lot of minutes? yes. Quality minutes? debatable.

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07-08-2012, 10:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by snailderby View Post
Quincey has averaged 30 points per 82 games over his entire NHL career. Bouwmeester has averaged 33 points per 82 games over his entire NHL career.

Quincey's career +/- is -5, playing with the Red Wings, Avalanche, and Kings. Bouwmeester's career +/- is -54, playing with the Panthers and Flames.

Quincey is 26. Bouwmeester is 28.

Quincey is 6'2" and 206 pounds. Bouwmeester is 6'4" and 214 pounds.

Both players shoot left.

Quinceys' cap hit is currently $3,125,000. Bouwmeester's cap hit is $6,680,000 for the next two years.

Where do you think he would slot in on the Red Wings depth chart? I think 99% of us would agree that he's better than Kindl and worse than Kronwall. But money no object, which one of the following D-men would you take him over: (1) Smith, (2) White, (3) Quincey, or (4) Ericsson?
Bouwmeester is a solid positional defenseman.
Quincey is not.

IMO, Bouwmeester would overtake Kronwall as #1 LD

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07-08-2012, 10:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
Mike Peca is an ugly skinny little rat weasel

the guy sat out an entire season, turned his back on his teammates and the sabres, his critique of jaybo does in fact carry less weight then Marc Crawfords of Alex Semin(at least mark is a proven winner)
Could be problem is what he is talking about in the clip are all traits you can see on ice and they are evident to a lot of people. Keep that man crush alive, unfortunately for most of us with each passing day this move might become more and more likely. A second round pick and a mid-tier prospect and it makes me sick to even offer that. Heck wait until the new CBA and hope Calgary actually has to cover a chunk of the contract. He can PK which puts ahead of some of the targets around here even if they are far superior players some of our needs must be taken into account.

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07-08-2012, 10:53 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Lot of minutes? yes. Quality minutes? debatable.
Put Bouwmeester next to Shea Weber these last 4-5 years. People would be ga-ga for him.

Stats are a horrible way to measure defensemen.
When Calgary was a good team, Dion Phaneuf was a Norris contender. When Calgary sucked and he went to a sucky Toronto team, Phaneuf looks like an overpaid piece of garbage.

This happens all over the league, over and over and over again.
Lebda looks decent here. Looks atrocious everywhere else.
Murphy looks done like dinner in Toronto... fits like a glove in Detroit.

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07-08-2012, 10:55 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
come on man, you dont honestly think quincey = bouwmeester do you?
I think he was talking about cost in the equation too, but with 20 million in space not so sure two million difference if Quincey really sticks to his guns that he is 4 million + player or gets a big arbitration settlement. I do find it funny that I remember during the year having Hudler involved as part of deals for him and Iginla and people saying on both teams the Flames wouldn't want Hudler he is worthless.

Enstrom can actually pk right, he would seem a big get if Winnipeg realizes they can't come to terms with im. A smaller guy though.

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07-08-2012, 10:59 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I think he was talking about cost in the equation too, but with 20 million in space not so sure two million difference if Quincey really sticks to his guns that he is 4 million + player or gets a big arbitration settlement. I do find it funny that I remember during the year having Hudler involved as part of deals for him and Iginla and people saying on both teams the Flames wouldn't want Hudler he is worthless.

Enstrom can actually pk right, he would seem a big get if Winnipeg realizes they can't come to terms with im. A smaller guy though.
yes i love the "cost in equation" thinking

a very convienent arguement only to be used here and there by some children but not to be used as a standard as it can and will backfire

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07-08-2012, 11:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Lot of minutes? yes. Quality minutes? debatable.
oh ok, despite being 6th in the ENTIRE league in TOI he manages to quickly, and 100% of the time, get himself off the ice all the time when the leagues top scoring threats jump over the boards

he is a sly one for sure

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07-08-2012, 11:02 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Put Bouwmeester next to Shea Weber these last 4-5 years. People would be ga-ga for him.

Stats are a horrible way to measure defensemen.
When Calgary was a good team, Dion Phaneuf was a Norris contender. When Calgary sucked and he went to a sucky Toronto team, Phaneuf looks like an overpaid piece of garbage.

This happens all over the league, over and over and over again.
Lebda looks decent here. Looks atrocious everywhere else.
Murphy looks done like dinner in Toronto... fits like a glove in Detroit.
I get what you are saying, to a degree. However it has to be at least concerning to you that Bouwmeester hasn't scored 30 or more points in 4 years, and hasn't been a plus player in 6. I Wouldn't feel very comfortable with a 7 million dollar defenseman with that production at that salary. If he comes here and his production doesn't go up dramatically, then what? We aren't exactly the Detroit of years past right now. You could have stuck Bouwmeester with Lidstrom and he would probably play great, like Ian White last year, but Lidstrom is gone now. Stuart is gone. People are going to get exposed more now.

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07-08-2012, 11:03 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
oh ok, despite being 6th in the ENTIRE league in TOI he manages to quickly, and 100% of the time, get himself off the ice all the time when the leagues top scoring threats jump over the boards

he is a sly one for sure
Hasn't been a plus player in 6 years, he's great at staying on the ice when the other team scores

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07-08-2012, 11:23 PM
  #61
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I am on the record lot of times against JayBo but lets be honest at this point we need to listen to the cost. Maybe the brass believes they can figure something out I doubt it but they were interested in Burns who to me is a lot like JayBo. His contract expires in two seasons. There is talk that in the new CBA you could eat the money or portions and not have it count against your cap but that is just early speculation. He has become an answer today if Calgary is truly interested in moving him for cheap. Would rather just sign Rozsival to a one year deal and have him PK.

Of all the name brand players available you have to believe JayBo will come the easiest. I hate it but you have to look at the team now, what improves it and what doesn't. A lot of people around here would have done backflips if we had landed him when he left Florida. Lots of people thought he fit our system, never been a big fan, but we need to look at all the options, even one that is sad like this. Whatever D-man comes in to fill the 7th spot or push people around needs to be a PK player. It would be nice if they were righthanded, but JayBo can play both sides if I remember correctly.

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07-08-2012, 11:31 PM
  #62
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Considering J-bo's cap hit I can't believe there is even discussion here. I can't see Red Wings taking on one of the worst contracts in the NHL.

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07-09-2012, 12:26 AM
  #63
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Nevef was a huge J Bou fan. That being said, if we fail to sign any FAs, then, if Calgary doesn't ask the moon in trade, he could solidify the top 4. As for stats etc. Can't be worried about small stats on a different team because, like was said above, different fit, different dynamic etc. Too many variables to say Oooh look, we don't want that.

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07-09-2012, 12:27 AM
  #64
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Who cares about his cap hit. We have cap space galore and a GM who treats it like his retirement fund.

It's only for two years.

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07-09-2012, 12:44 AM
  #65
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I would rather try to get Phanuef before JayBo

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07-09-2012, 01:31 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Fedorov View Post
Considering J-bo's cap hit I can't believe there is even discussion here. I can't see Red Wings taking on one of the worst contracts in the NHL.
Some folks here want any desperate move to happen. A bunch of desperate moves for moderate players like JBo? Meh.

I can point you to a very exciting team that's done a bunch of moves like this...


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07-09-2012, 01:32 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I get what you are saying, to a degree. However it has to be at least concerning to you that Bouwmeester hasn't scored 30 or more points in 4 years, and hasn't been a plus player in 6. I Wouldn't feel very comfortable with a 7 million dollar defenseman with that production at that salary. If he comes here and his production doesn't go up dramatically, then what? We aren't exactly the Detroit of years past right now. You could have stuck Bouwmeester with Lidstrom and he would probably play great, like Ian White last year, but Lidstrom is gone now. Stuart is gone. People are going to get exposed more now.
Yes, they are. I think Bouwmeester can be a decent top pairing guy. Not a stud. But good.
I'm not too worried about points
Look at calgary's offense
11-12 - 2 players with 50 points. Bouwmeester leads defense in points

Giordano is their PP guy. And Iginla gets a lot of those shots, too.

Bouwmesster played 20:18 at even strength, 3:18 at SH and 2:10 on the PP.
25:57 a game.

Bring him into Detroit, make him a 2nd pairing PK guy and lighten the load a bit.. to 23-24 minutes, give him players who can move the puck through neutral ice...

Bouwmeester would be a nice fit here.
That said, I wouldn't give up a ton for the guy. And some salary would need to go back. Bouwmeester for Quincey and Niedomiel and a third.

Just an FYI ... Bouwmeester played third most PP minutes/60 mins on the Flames defense the last two seasons.
Also, his PP icetime has been cut nearly in half from his florida days.

Jay Bouwmeester, 19 Even Strength Points
Ryan Suter, 19 Even Strength Points
Nick Lidstrom, 17 Even Strength Points

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07-09-2012, 01:44 AM
  #68
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I'd take a chance on Bowmeester, but certainly would not overpay for him.

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07-09-2012, 06:56 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
come on man, you dont honestly think quincey = bouwmeester do you?
Yeah. They're comparable players if you're smart enough to read those posted stats.

Oh wait - Quincey's cheaper.


Last edited by SoupNazi: 07-09-2012 at 07:03 AM.
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07-09-2012, 06:57 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
Mike Peca is an ugly skinny little rat weasel
Wow. How nice and mature of you.


Last edited by SoupNazi: 07-09-2012 at 07:05 AM.
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07-09-2012, 03:56 PM
  #71
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I live in Calgary and have season tickets to the Flames so I get to see him alot.
He has his ups and downs like most players, when he came here people were expecting the moon from him, 50+ points plus dominant play.
He is not that type of player, he plays lots of quality minutes and plays in all situations. Honestly when was the last great defensemen in Calgary who put up points? McInnis. Calgary's horrible system kills Dman production.

His is overpaid yes but the wings dont have to worry about that with that cap space they have.
I think he would flourish in a puck control, skating system like the Wings compared to the dump and chase foolishness the Flames try to use. Pair him with someone who has some grit and a more defensive game like Big E and he would fit in nicely.

With that said I wouldn’t give up much for him though. One of our forward prospects plus a pick maybe. Id like to keep Kindl and see how he does, however we don’t really need him either as we have lots of young guys coming up. We need top 4 not a bottom 2.

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07-09-2012, 04:04 PM
  #72
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I think that's the problem... teams won't pay what JBo is worth in Calgary.

JBo isn't worth much in a trade. But where does that leave Calgary? Sure, I don't care for JBo's game, but he's the best Calgary has. If they move him, they go from screwed to super screwed. Moving him for a prospect and 2nd rounder isn't going to cut it for that team, because they have, once again, shown they are willing to bring in veterans in an attempt to make the playoffs.

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07-09-2012, 05:22 PM
  #73
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Quote:
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I think that's the problem... teams won't pay what JBo is worth in Calgary.

JBo isn't worth much in a trade. But where does that leave Calgary? Sure, I don't care for JBo's game, but he's the best Calgary has. If they move him, they go from screwed to super screwed. Moving him for a prospect and 2nd rounder isn't going to cut it for that team, because they have, once again, shown they are willing to bring in veterans in an attempt to make the playoffs.
Once Calgary embraces a full on rebuild, they'll sell him off for whatever they can get...Hopefully by that time, Detroit's not like Calgary is now...

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07-09-2012, 05:51 PM
  #74
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He only has 2 years left on his contract. Calgary will miss the playoffs this year, hopefully sell Iggy and Kipper at the deadline for youth and then trade JBo at the deadline the next year. Those three players could get them a good return and core players for the future.

Like I said I would welcome him on this team. He would be a great addition to our blue line.

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07-09-2012, 06:23 PM
  #75
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Once Calgary embraces a full on rebuild, they'll sell him off for whatever they can get...Hopefully by that time, Detroit's not like Calgary is now...
He'll be a free agent by the time they'd be in full rebuild.

I guess I don't get why Calgary would sell him NOW for the scraps people are offering in this thread.

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