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v20: off-season '12| In: Lowry, Fields, Valanciunas, Ross...Out: J Johnson, Bayless

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Old
07-05-2012, 09:30 PM
  #301
binop7
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Better, but still not nearly good enough.
For a slasher he has a weak first step also. And no real inside the paint moves. Very 1 dimensional.

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07-05-2012, 09:32 PM
  #302
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I honestly think its a good deal. Iggy will make the team much more better offensively and defensively.

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07-05-2012, 09:32 PM
  #303
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As far as on-topic discussion goes, I think that...

Lowry/Bayless
Fields/Ross
Iguodala/***
Bargnani/***
Valenciunas/***

...is actually a pretty good lineup. It would give Lowry multiple passing options with the potential option of Ross' jumpshot, Iggy's mid-range game and slashing, Bargnani's range, and hopefully Valenciunas for stand-up dunks and put-backs. Iguodala, Valenciunas, Lowry and I THINK Fields gives decent depth the defensive side. The team wouldn't have a true shutdown post player but Iguodala would help when Bargnani is woefully outmatched in the post. I admittedly don't know much about Fields' game other than he showed great promise as a rookie and looks like he has good reach/size for the 2-guard spot.

But I think the best advantage is that Iguodala would cultivate a winning atmosphere around the team for Lowry and Valenciunas to develop in. Lowry, for all intents and purposes, is our current and future Point Guard, and Valenciunas is likely the same as one of our big-men. We need to get the point across that losing is not acceptable.




I posted before about how losing players for draft picks in an ideal "draft rebuild" scenario has failed badly in the past (Portland).

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07-05-2012, 09:34 PM
  #304
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just read on lowry. sounds like a keeper. especially with his connections to alvin williams. great attitude and work ethic. if he can rub off on lowry, giddy up!!

Forbes wasn't horrible though. showed some potential.

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07-05-2012, 09:34 PM
  #305
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derozan can develop into an allstar SF. he needs to cut and slash much more. play for the foul. he could, but seems to avoid it and settles for outside jumpers.

as for the trade, i dont know much about the guys we got all I know is that Irvie was 1st OV or something like that. top 3. doesn't seem like we gave up very much.
Who's irvie???

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07-05-2012, 09:38 PM
  #306
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The Raptors seem to be gearing up for a playoff season if Bargnani remains healthy. I think with Lowry and Calderon we may have one of the better PG combos in the NBA. I know a lot of people are speculating that if we're unable to unload Calderon in a trade, we might use the amnesty clause on him, but I was thinking isn't it better to use it for a guy like Amir Johnson or even Linas Kleiza rather than Calderon?

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07-05-2012, 09:38 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
For a slasher he has a weak first step also. And no real inside the paint moves. Very 1 dimensional.
he needs to grow up. gain some weight.

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07-05-2012, 09:38 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
As far as on-topic discussion goes, I think that...

Lowry/Bayless
Fields/Ross
Iguodala/***
Bargnani/***
Valenciunas/***

...is actually a pretty good lineup. It would give Lowry multiple passing options with the potential option of Ross' jumpshot, Iggy's mid-range game and slashing, Bargnani's range, and hopefully Valenciunas for stand-up dunks and put-backs. Iguodala, Valenciunas, Lowry and I THINK Fields gives decent depth the defensive side. The team wouldn't have a true shutdown post player but Iguodala would help when Bargnani is woefully outmatched in the post. I admittedly don't know much about Fields' game other than he showed great promise as a rookie and looks like he has good reach/size for the 2-guard spot.

But I think the best advantage is that Iguodala would cultivate a winning atmosphere around the team for Lowry and Valenciunas to develop in. Lowry, for all intents and purposes, is our current and future Point Guard, and Valenciunas is likely the same as one of our big-men. We need to get the point across that losing is not acceptable.




I posted before about how losing players for draft picks in an ideal "draft rebuild" scenario has failed badly in the past (Portland).
assuming the hypothetical Iggy trade was DeRozan/Davis/Calderon for Iggy & Vucevic, the full lineup would be:

Lowry/Bayless
Fields/Ross
Igoudala/J. Johnson/Kleiza
Bargnani/A. Johnson
Valanciunas/Vucevic

with one more open bench spot.

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07-05-2012, 09:40 PM
  #309
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Who's irvie???
corrected myself in second post lol. my bad

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07-05-2012, 09:41 PM
  #310
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Iguodala is not what this team needs.

This team now needs a scorer from the wing spots and Iggy is not enough of a scorer to fit what we need.


Rudy Gay is the SF we should be targetting.

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07-05-2012, 09:41 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
assuming the hypothetical Iggy trade was DeRozan/Davis/Calderon for Iggy & Vucevic, the full lineup would be:

Lowry/Bayless
Fields/Ross
Igoudala/J. Johnson/Kleiza
Bargnani/A. Johnson
Valanciunas/Vucevic

with one more open bench spot.
I think Johnson would excel as the 6th man in a line up like that.

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07-05-2012, 09:44 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Porn* View Post
just read on lowry. sounds like a keeper. especially with his connections to alvin williams. great attitude and work ethic. if he can rub off on lowry, giddy up!!

Forbes wasn't horrible though. showed some potential.
Nah, he wasn't horrible, but all he did was break out for 15-20 points once every 15-20 games, then regress back to a guy who got garbage time minutes and did basically nothing except hit a couple buckets.

I can't even call him a poor man's DeRozan in terms of output. It was more like the kind of DeRozan you'd find in the bottom of a bin at Value Village.

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07-05-2012, 09:45 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
The Raptors seem to be gearing up for a playoff season if Bargnani remains healthy. I think with Lowry and Calderon we may have one of the better PG combos in the NBA. I know a lot of people are speculating that if we're unable to unload Calderon in a trade, we might use the amnesty clause on him, but I was thinking isn't it better to use it for a guy like Amir Johnson or even Linas Kleiza rather than Calderon?
Amir Johnson seems like a worse contract to me, Nemesis might have a better idea. Calderon, to me, might have trade-deadline value to a contending team that hypothetically loses their starting PG to injury. If I'm not mistaken, Calderon has less years on his contract than Amir Johnson. There may be takers on Calderon's contract, but Amir Johnson will have no takers if I'm anything close to correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Nemesis
assuming the hypothetical Iggy trade was DeRozan/Davis/Calderon for Iggy & Vucevic, the full lineup would be:

Lowry/Bayless
Fields/Ross
Igoudala/J. Johnson/Kleiza
Bargnani/A. Johnson
Valanciunas/Vucevic

with one more open bench spot.
Yea, I'm not big on A. Johnson or Kleiza, so I didn't both including them on my roster. Obviously they would be present but they aren't part of much of how I think the team fares. I don't know much about J. Johnson but I've read on this board that people think he is a critical piece of how Dwayne Casey runs the team, so I will accept that.

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07-05-2012, 09:46 PM
  #314
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OKC signed Hasheem Thabust to a 2-year deal.

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07-05-2012, 09:50 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Funk View Post
Iguodala is not what this team needs.

This team now needs a scorer from the wing spots and Iggy is not enough of a scorer to fit what we need.


Rudy Gay is the SF we should be targetting.
Gay isn't really available. And we just drafted a player that has perimeter/mid-range scoring as his main calling card.

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07-05-2012, 09:51 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Dr.Funk View Post
Iguodala is not what this team needs.

This team now needs a scorer from the wing spots and Iggy is not enough of a scorer to fit what we need.


Rudy Gay is the SF we should be targetting.
Gay isn't available. That was the whole point of the Grizzlies not qualifying Mayo. And I doubt we could get the Grizzlies to change their mind on this fact by offering up DeRozan and Davis or DeRozan/Davis and Calderon. Or all 3 even. Never mind that the Grizzlies don't need Calderon with Conley and Wroten on the team already.

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07-05-2012, 09:53 PM
  #317
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OKC signed Hasheem Thabust to a 2-year deal.
What's the cap hit? Definitely a reclamation project, hoping that Perkins and Ibaka can have some of their defensive game rub off on him.

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07-05-2012, 09:53 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Gay isn't really available. And we just drafted a player that has perimeter/mid-range scoring as his main calling card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Gay isn't available. That was the whole point of the Grizzlies not qualifying Mayo. And I doubt we could get the Grizzlies to change their mind on this fact by offering up DeRozan and Davis or DeRozan/Davis and Calderon. Or all 3 even. Never mind that the Grizzlies don't need Calderon with Conley and Wroten on the team already.


Doesn't change the fact that Iggy isn't the right fit for the Raptors and shouldn't be wasted assets on.

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07-05-2012, 10:09 PM
  #319
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Sorry to just a rant after listening to Steve Nash. Screw the lakers! He used the raptors for leverage. I suppose it happens all the time.
I'm not a huge bball fan but it sure seems like there really is no salary cap? A bazillion loopholes etc. these big market teams sign whoever they want for any amount of money.

Just seems strange set up to me.

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07-05-2012, 10:20 PM
  #320
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Amir Johnson seems like a worse contract to me, Nemesis might have a better idea. Calderon, to me, might have trade-deadline value to a contending team that hypothetically loses their starting PG to injury. If I'm not mistaken, Calderon has less years on his contract than Amir Johnson. There may be takers on Calderon's contract, but Amir Johnson will have no takers if I'm anything close to correct.


Yea, I'm not big on A. Johnson or Kleiza, so I didn't both including them on my roster. Obviously they would be present but they aren't part of much of how I think the team fares. I don't know much about J. Johnson but I've read on this board that people think he is a critical piece of how Dwayne Casey runs the team, so I will accept that.
Amir would be much better if not for his contract. And not being shoved into the backup C role like he was last season for a while. He's a useful hustle/energy PF off the bench who can rebound and defend a bit and get some points in tight to the basket. I also think his change-of-pace potential is good coming in to replace Bargnani.

As for James Johnson, he's not a great technical defender, and he's not a shooter. But he's incredibly versatile, and the defensive flaws can be ironed out. His stat averages last year were 9.1 points, 2 assists, 4.7 rebounds, 1.35 blocks and 1.15 steals per game. With the latter two being the best on the team. The technical flaws in his game can be ironed out by coach Casey, and I think that he could be our James Posey/Ron Artest defensive specialist off the bench. He didn't get a full camp with Casey to be moulded by the coaches last year. I think this season makes a difference for him.

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07-05-2012, 10:30 PM
  #321
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Doesn't change the fact that Iggy isn't the right fit for the Raptors and shouldn't be wasted assets on.
You do realize that if we got Iggy we'd be a top 5 team in the NBA in defense right? Not in the East. In the entire NBA. Defense wins you games and championships.

We have a couple of wing scorers in Fields and Ross. They are pretty damn good shooters.

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07-05-2012, 10:35 PM
  #322
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damn, brandon roy is making a comeback next season with the wolves

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/0...roy-to-wolves/

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07-05-2012, 10:40 PM
  #323
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We should almost have a dedicated thread to Steve Nash so that the thread topic doesn't get diverted back to that everyday....

I assume the comment about the salary cap is coming from an NHL fan (being on these boards), so here's my understanding as it relates to the NHL. The NBA salary cap is far more lenient than the NHL salary cap is something I would suggest is because the NBA has been paying their players far higher than the NHL for a longer period of time. Things like Larry Bird exceptions, Mid-Level Exceptions, and Salary Amnesties, and maybe even the NFL's Franchise Tag are actually something I think the NHL will address eventually. It might even come in the new CBA. NBA has more rules and "loopholes" because the league has been more successful financially for a longer period of time and thus has evolved to appease both players and owners. It gives good teams the ability to remain good by maintaining players for long periods of times (Bird rights), and also allows good veteran players to earn money without destroying the cap structure of the signing team (Mid-level exceptions). I honestly think the NHL will be heavily considering applying both. This is not an NHL CBA thread though...

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Doesn't change the fact that Iggy isn't the right fit for the Raptors and shouldn't be wasted assets on.
But why not? Iggy is obviously a better player NOW than both Davis and Derozan. If the "development" or Derozan stays constant, he will ALWAYS be better defensively than Derozan at the SG/SF spot. Offensively, Iggy will likely be more consistent than Derozan in the next couple years, and has the strength and basketball IQ to battle through the opposition. Derozan has moments when he can rip through the opposing D, but it seems that it's just as easy for opposing coaches to shut him down. He's not a player that's tough to coach against. I'm not saying Iggy is significantly better offensively, but he brings defensive strength with similar point production and can confidently be suited up at the SF position. Also, Davis is always going to be behind both Bargnani and Valenciunas in the big-man spots, and also hasn't shown significant promise.

I admit I'm a fan of Iguodala's game. If you look past his age (which you also need to realize he's not THAT old) and looming UFA status, then he is definitely an attractive player to consider. Frankly nobody can know how this team will fare with Lowry and Valenciunas in the future. If the team is actually competitive when Iguodala's contract is up, then he could likely sign as a veteran piece.

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07-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #324
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just read on lowry. sounds like a keeper. especially with his connections to alvin williams. great attitude and work ethic. if he can rub off on lowry, giddy up!!

Forbes wasn't horrible though. showed some potential.
Read somewhere that Casey loves him as well. Not sure if there is some connection, or it was just based of how Lowry plays.

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07-05-2012, 11:31 PM
  #325
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