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Should Burke have waited to trade schenn?

View Poll Results: If we waited, would screen have fetched us more assets
Yes! Schenn would have gotten us a better package than JVR 11 7.14%
No, we would gave gotten the same or less 143 92.86%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-05-2012, 09:50 AM
  #26
smitty10
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JVR is a very high potential, former 2nd overall pick who may develop into the power forward that we've been in search of. Schenn is a good player, but his upside isn't as high or as coveted by this team.

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07-05-2012, 09:53 AM
  #27
number72
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
I see your point but I really don't see those other teams being able to offer anything better than JVR honestly and even then Philly had backed off on wanting us to add to the deal. If it was a 'take it or leave it', I would have taken it as I don't see how a better deal could be made other than by just hoping.

You have to make the read of your staff too. If opinions changed internally of Schenns future potential, that would have a huge impact
If Burke unloads the overabundance of forwards (pre-JVR) and transforms in the roster both defensively and offensively into something better than this deal could make sense. The big issue is there are too many leaf forwards even before the JVR trade and the number of underperforming forwards is going to prevent the prospects from developing etc. That is the mess that Burke needs to clean up.

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07-05-2012, 09:55 AM
  #28
Vexxed14
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
If Burke unloads the overabundance of forwards (pre-JVR) and transforms in the roster both defensively and offensively into something better than this deal could make sense. The big issue is there are too many leaf forwards even before the JVR trade and the number of underperforming forwards is going to prevent the prospects from developing etc. That is the mess that Burke needs to clean up.
I agree and apparently so does Burke. I wont argue what will or wont happen though if we can both agree to wait and see on the agreed upon goals before rushing to judge

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07-05-2012, 09:57 AM
  #29
Rinzler
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Burke made the move at the right time. We got the right value for Schenn. This was a straight up hockey trade that will likely work out for both teams.

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07-05-2012, 09:57 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by goonx View Post
With the UFA so thin this year on D should Burke have waited to trade schenn once carle and suter got signed?

Once these UFA got signed, Schenn is arguably the next big name out there and could fetch a bit more via Trade.

Thoughts?
They stold JVR IMO.....Schenn should never been drafted as high as he was.

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07-05-2012, 09:59 AM
  #31
Conan
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"IF" they waited longer the best they could of got is maybe 3-7 rounder pick with JVR if Philly really wanted Schenn that bad.

Burke should of tried to get Blake Kessel in that deal. Unite 2 sets of brother with 1 trade.

To Philly: Schenn
For: JVR and Blake Kessel

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07-05-2012, 10:04 AM
  #32
Rinzler
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
I agree and apparently so does Burke. I wont argue what will or wont happen though if we can both agree to wait and see on the agreed upon goals before rushing to judge
Yeah, there's no doubt that we're going to dump a lot of the excess this summer. It's not because those players are bad per se, but moreso that this team is going to be changing drastically (particularly in the bottom 6) moving forward.

Our bottom 6 under Carlyle needs to be big and gritty. Our bottom 6 last year was anything but. I think that's a big reason for the collapse. Once the going got tough and the amount of open ice got smaller, the team got exposed badly.

For this very reason, I wouldn't be shocked if the likes of Broll make the team next year. We need guys who can't be knocked off the puck and actually play a possession game.

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07-05-2012, 10:11 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
I know we need those roles filled but I am suggesting that we could still be like the current Anaheim rather than the championship Anaheim. 1C, MVP winger, #1 goalie, decent youth and notable D. Yet they struggle to maintain playoff positions. There is also Carolina and Montreal.

All I am saying is that getting those much needed pieces wont solve all our problems and that we can't sit around doing nothing on our other issues while we try and solve the big ones.
Very true. Like I said, I agree that there are other holes, and Burke is luckily working to fill those, even though they are smaller than the two main ones.

We're heading towards true parity in this League, where there's no such thing as a "lock" to make the playoffs. It will take a while for fans of the League to get used to that, I think.

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07-05-2012, 10:12 AM
  #34
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I think we got fair value for Schenn coming back. To respond to Mess. We have a lot of young d-men on the team and in the system and we are lacking skilled big bodies up front. You know as much as I do 2 playoffs ago JVR was a truck that was unstoppable. With all the changes in Phy and injuries he slipped a little but he will be a horse on the left side that will be hard to stop. He won't bang but he reminds me a lot of John Leclair but only faster.

With this Schultz thing. The more I thought of it the guy is still a prospect. Really no better than Gus was and Bozak and Christian Hanson and a whole slew of others. He has to make the leap. Guaranteeing the guy a spot on the top four was ridiculous and that is why most teams passed on him. Personally Franson to me is a better d-man and already has a few years of playing against NHL players. He fits perfect in Edm with a team loaded with potential and no finish. They can have him. I would rather have Gardiner, Reily, Percy, Finn. We are finally starting to get some real depth in the organization.

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Old
07-05-2012, 10:15 AM
  #35
Pi
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Schenn was traded at the right time.

I wanted him to stay a full year under Carlyle and go from there but if he sucked this year his stock would plummet and we'd get nothing substantial for him.

Getting JvR is a great move. I've got no doubt this is going to be his career year.

Lupul and JvR similarities:

4.25 cap hit.
Injured before acquired.
Lupul scores PPG
JvR scores ?????? ?????


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07-05-2012, 10:16 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Yes, or they shouldn't have traded him at all but rather continued to develop him as he is only 22 and most Dmen don't even make the NHL until this time, while Luke already has 4 years under his belt. Or they could have chosen to get rid of other defenseman first among the current group if it was a numbers issue.

If the Leafs were going to trade him it should have been in a deal that returned a #1C or #1G, which is a position of need for the team.

Schenn was traded in hopes the opening on D would secure Justin Schultz, and that backfired big time on the Leafs after he signed in Edmonton. Otherwise as you say, what was the rush as it could have waited until later this summer when teams are looking for Dmen all over the league.
maybe the Flyers only made the trade because they thought they had a good chance at Parise.
waiting, could have caused them to not offer JVR any more.

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07-05-2012, 10:32 AM
  #37
Kessely Snipes
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I think Burke got good enough return for Schenn. How much more can we expect.

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07-05-2012, 10:35 AM
  #38
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I'm already very happy with the return we got from Schenn. Wishing for anything more would be greedy

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07-05-2012, 10:36 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBeL13f View Post
I believe all of those people are wrong. He's going to be so damn good. Luckily, JVR can be even better.
Finally someone that agrees. Schenn will be good, very good. As I said before good defensive dmen take long to develope, good ones take even longer. I stand by that and when schenn is 27/28, he WILL come back to bite us.

Edit: not to mention, he will play with heart and still might be a future captain. Don't get me wrong, I like the deal because we are d heavy and we are in need of top 6 players and JVR does have huge potential.

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07-05-2012, 10:36 AM
  #40
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I don't think he should have traded Schenn at all, that should've been a third option. Don't like the deal.

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07-05-2012, 10:55 AM
  #41
number72
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Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
maybe the Flyers only made the trade because they thought they had a good chance at Parise.
waiting, could have caused them to not offer JVR any more.

The flyers don't need help with the forwards as much as on defence with the loss of pronger. And it was a smart move by Holmgrem to acquire a valuable in demand asset (defender) and offload something he and many in league have an excess of (winger). Even now Ryan and Nash are available but what quality defenders are on the trade block? Weber or Bouwmeester - well both GM deny it.

And if you look at the UFA market, aside from Parise, the bigger signings this year have been on defence (wideman, garrison, carle, suter). This is where the action is and I think Holmgrem saw this occurring a bit better than Burke. In fact, Burke now is loaded with too many forwards (some great ones JVR/Kessel) and some awful ones (Connlly, lombardi). And many teams still need a #1 defender (Wings, Flyers and to lesser extent Penguins, canes).

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07-05-2012, 11:14 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Schenn was traded at the right time.

I wanted him to stay a full year under Carlyle and go from there but if he sucked this year his stock would plummet and we'd get nothing substantial for him.

Getting JvR is a great move. I've got no doubt this is going to be his career year.

Lupul and JvR similarities:

4.25 cap hit.
Injured before acquired.
Lupul scores PPG
JvR scores ?????? ?????

To be honest I was getting worried about that. Lets face it, Schenn wasn't that good last year and we were keeping his value up by saying he was still young and would improve under a more defensive system (I do think he would have improved). But if he didn't improve, that means he couldn't play in the run and gun and he couldn't play in a more defensive one, basically meaning his value drops to a bottom pairing guy. If Burke was 100% sure that Schenn would drastically improve, I don't think he would've traded him. I think the few games under Carlyle was enough for Burke to come to the decision that it wasn't guaranteed, he didn't want to take the chance so traded him for something that filled a need of ours. JVR also has great potential. I believe hands down we win the trade next year. It's after that where it gets fuzzy though, Schenn could definitely end up the better player still 5 years down the road.

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07-05-2012, 11:30 AM
  #43
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We swapped him with a young power forward who oozes potential. Can't we just be happy with the trade and not ciritque the what ifs for once?

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07-05-2012, 11:40 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by dfunk View Post
We swapped him with a young power forward who oozes potential. Can't we just be happy with the trade and not ciritque the what ifs for once?
This X10

I can't wait for the day Burke builds a perennail contender, the Leafs win the cup with a young core, and the threads on here are all about "well, he didn't do it the right way", and "we would have won sooner if didn't make the Kessel trade"

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07-05-2012, 11:43 AM
  #45
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Since it was there was always talk of trading Schenn for JVR I think Burke made the right decision trading him when he did. Plus it was only a matter of time until that deal actually happened.

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07-05-2012, 11:49 AM
  #46
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I find it odd that many view it as giving up on Schenn rather than acquiring JVR.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:50 AM
  #47
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We gave up a pretty high potential young player coming off a rough year, We got a pretty high potential young player coming off a rough year.

Don't know how we could have asked for more.

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07-05-2012, 12:01 PM
  #48
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The one thing that I found interesting was that it was reported that the deal was on the deal and then Burke went back to Holmgrem and agreed to it. Means Burke was being honest when he was saying he wasn't shopping Schenn, but it just makes me wonder if it was this same deal on the table back in December or whenever? Or was the deal different back then? Is it possible that maybe more was on the table on Philly's side before they traded for Grossmann? Guess we will never know. Regardless I am still thrilled with the outcome.

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Old
07-05-2012, 12:18 PM
  #49
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i like schenn and it was sad to see him traded but i think it was a good deal for both teams. i think both jvr and schenn didnt have much value to other teams night now so it was a good needs based swap

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07-05-2012, 12:36 PM
  #50
Squeeven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonx View Post
With the UFA so thin this year on D should Burke have waited to trade schenn once carle and suter got signed?

Once these UFA got signed, Schenn is arguably the next big name out there and could fetch a bit more via Trade.

Thoughts?
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=637078

I see what you're saying about him being the next big name because now that Ryan Suter and Matt Carle are gone he probably would have been sought after by some GM's if Brian Burke made it known that he was shopping him. But getting JVR is nothing to sneeze at, he's young, talented and full of potential to be a top 6 forward especially on the Leafs. So no, I think you guys got the best you could get for Schenn.

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