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Old
07-25-2012, 02:11 AM
  #376
KISSland
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Why did they stop trading for cash?

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07-25-2012, 02:17 AM
  #377
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After this offersheet, Poile won't be the only one throwing a retaliatory offersheet back at Philly. I can see Gillis doing the same because Homer essentially ****ed his chances of acquiring Weber for a cheap price in the future.

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07-25-2012, 02:20 AM
  #378
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I'm still trying to understand why some people think that having a long term deal to stay in Nashville is somehow a bad thing for Shea Weber. He knows the team, knows the coach, they have a strong goaltender locked up and they have a good solid core to develop around the two cornerstones. Now that Weber is locked up, Nashville still maintains its contender status and becomes an attractive destination for free agents. I don't think it was pre-ordained that Weber was going to come to the Canucks either, so I'd rather see a team like Nashville hold onto him over seeing him go to the Flyers or Rangers.

It's not like he signed a 14 year deal with the Oilers or Columbus, Nashville is a very well run organization. I don't see Weber asking for a trade necessarily either, what reason would he have? If Nashville remains a contender it would seem like he'd have no reason to want out?

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07-25-2012, 02:50 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
Why did they stop trading for cash?
Seems open to violating the spirit of the salary cap. ie here's a bucket of cash, you eat the player's salary for us, trade him back at the deal, we'll slip you a second. you get above the floor without paying, we running 10% over cap. wink wink.

Speaking of which the Weber deal could be used, only it'd be the rich team that was eating $ for a better return on their player. Rich team signs with a massive bonus, pays it, trades the player (high cap hit, low $). Eg we sign "Edler" (hypothetical) to a massive signing bonus, pay it them trade him to Nashville were they only pay part, they flip him back in the OS, we pay the bonus then return him. All LOLs until the NHL has a tanty.

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07-25-2012, 02:54 AM
  #380
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I'm still trying to understand why some people think that having a long term deal to stay in Nashville is somehow a bad thing for Shea Weber. He knows the team, knows the coach, they have a strong goaltender locked up and they have a good solid core to develop around the two cornerstones. Now that Weber is locked up, Nashville still maintains its contender status and becomes an attractive destination for free agents. I don't think it was pre-ordained that Weber was going to come to the Canucks either, so I'd rather see a team like Nashville hold onto him over seeing him go to the Flyers or Rangers.

It's not like he signed a 14 year deal with the Oilers or Columbus, Nashville is a very well run organization. I don't see Weber asking for a trade necessarily either, what reason would he have? If Nashville remains a contender it would seem like he'd have no reason to want out?
Exactly, Weber knew what he was doing. Getting a bucket load of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from a team he was prepared to play for (either Philly or Nashville in this case).

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07-25-2012, 03:19 AM
  #381
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If there was a roster freeze on I could see your point. It's the middle of the UFA period, and 8 months till the trade deadline. Everyone is saying Nashville broke themselves on this one, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see poile make another splash before the season. Proving to his freshly locked up captain that he will be given a chance to win moving forward.

PS. Radulov is addition by subtraction.
Yes, Radulov and AK47 were easy scape-goats for the team's poor coaching and management against Phoenix. Say what you want about his character, Radulov was still a guy who could have potted 60+ points.

As for UFA still being open, there are only 3 UFA forwards on the market that scored 20+ goals last year; Semin, Doan and Sykora. Two of them are 35, so their cap hits would still count if they retired. Yes, they could make a trade by the deadline, any team in the conference could do that, but they now have to shore up their D and improve their forwards. Right now, they are a borderline playoff team, and not even close to being cup contenders.

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07-25-2012, 04:12 AM
  #382
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I'm still trying to understand why some people think that having a long term deal to stay in Nashville is somehow a bad thing for Shea Weber. He knows the team, knows the coach, they have a strong goaltender locked up and they have a good solid core to develop around the two cornerstones. Now that Weber is locked up, Nashville still maintains its contender status and becomes an attractive destination for free agents. I don't think it was pre-ordained that Weber was going to come to the Canucks either, so I'd rather see a team like Nashville hold onto him over seeing him go to the Flyers or Rangers.

It's not like he signed a 14 year deal with the Oilers or Columbus, Nashville is a very well run organization. I don't see Weber asking for a trade necessarily either, what reason would he have? If Nashville remains a contender it would seem like he'd have no reason to want out?
Well, the team won't be nearly as good without Suter in the next few years. Also with Weber getting huge money in first years, it's going effect how they can fill the cap. IIRC Nashville has never spent even close to salary cap, nor attracted quality free agents, and with Suter gone and Weber being paid 6.2 million more than his cap hit is, those things are most likely not going to change.

To me it's clear that, after Suter was gone, Weber also would've preferred to move on. Like his agent said, he would've liked to move to a team that has the qualities that Nashville hasn't had: money, doing everything possible to win, being a contender year after year, being an attractive destination etc.

With Suter gone Nashville doesn't have to go full rebuild but they definitely need some kind of retool to get back to where they were. Not the most attractive thing for Weber to be part of. He just wanted his retirement contract so badly that he was willing to risk it. Probably a bad decision in hindsight, but at least he has the moneyh now.

Gotta give props to Gillis for realizing the one year deal offer sheet scenario and having the balls to actually go for it, just too bad the CBA came and screwed that plan. Not sending a long term offer proved to be the right call too, as Nashville kept their word and matched everything.

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07-25-2012, 09:07 AM
  #383
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Yes, Radulov and AK47 were easy scape-goats for the team's poor coaching and management against Phoenix. Say what you want about his character, Radulov was still a guy who could have potted 60+ points.

As for UFA still being open, there are only 3 UFA forwards on the market that scored 20+ goals last year; Semin, Doan and Sykora. Two of them are 35, so their cap hits would still count if they retired. Yes, they could make a trade by the deadline, any team in the conference could do that, but they now have to shore up their D and improve their forwards. Right now, they are a borderline playoff team, and not even close to being cup contenders.
Radulov also still led his team in points despite missing 2 games and Kostitsyn led the team in goals. Both were also + players. Meanwhile guys like Suter, Fisher, Sergei Kostitsyn, Weber, etc. crapped the bed. It's amusing how the two guys that outperformed everyone else get all the blame...

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07-25-2012, 09:17 AM
  #384
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Radulov also still led his team in points despite missing 2 games and Kostitsyn led the team in goals. Both were also + players. Meanwhile guys like Suter, Fisher, Sergei Kostitsyn, Weber, etc. crapped the bed. It's amusing how the two guys that outperformed everyone else get all the blame...
Pesky facts.

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07-25-2012, 10:25 AM
  #385
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Radulov also still led his team in points despite missing 2 games and Kostitsyn led the team in goals. Both were also + players. Meanwhile guys like Suter, Fisher, Sergei Kostitsyn, Weber, etc. crapped the bed. It's amusing how the two guys that outperformed everyone else get all the blame...
They take all the blame, because they acted like a couple a chapped ***** in the conference semi final, to the point they had to be removed to the lineup. It was ovious that Radulov went back to Nashville to cash in some extra coin, when the KHL season ended, and he really didnt give two ***** about the Preds, or his teamates...Now he's back in the KHL where he belongs and good riddance!

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07-25-2012, 10:27 AM
  #386
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They take all the blame, because they acted like a couple a chapped ***** in the conference semi final, to the point they had to be removed to the lineup. It was ovious that Radulov went back to Nashville to cash in some extra coin, when the KHL season ended, and he really didnt give two ***** about the Preds, or his teamates...Now he's back in the KHL where he belongs and good riddance!
Yeah, they sure ****ed up missing that curfew by an hour. Nashville's management overreacted after they lost the game and that was all it was. They didn't even know anything about them missing the curfew until a reporter brought it up after that game.

It's ok, don't let the facts get in the way of some nice national biases you've got going there.

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07-25-2012, 10:40 AM
  #387
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Yeah, they sure ****ed up missing that curfew by an hour. Nashville's management overreacted after they lost the game and that was all it was. They didn't even know anything about them missing the curfew until a reporter brought it up after that game.

It's ok, don't let the facts get in the way of some nice national biases you've got going there.
Do you honestly beleive that a team would sit out two of its more offensive forwards for the biggest games of their season, simply because they were a little late, and nothing more? National biases has nothing to do with this buddy. You going with a rumour, and calling it facts is a nice try though.

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07-25-2012, 10:49 AM
  #388
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Do you honestly beleive that a team would sit out two of its more offensive forwards for the biggest games of their season, simply because they were a little late, and nothing more? National biases has nothing to do with this buddy. You going with a rumour, and calling it facts is a nice try though.
Somebody checked with Michael Farber who wrote the article whether he was sure it was just an hour and he confirmed that he had it from a source inside the organization.

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07-25-2012, 10:49 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Radulov also still led his team in points despite missing 2 games and Kostitsyn led the team in goals. Both were also + players. Meanwhile guys like Suter, Fisher, Sergei Kostitsyn, Weber, etc. crapped the bed. It's amusing how the two guys that outperformed everyone else get all the blame...
Radulov and Kostitsyn deserve all the blame they get for missing their curfew. They aren't the reason they lost the series but they became a distraction to the team. These guys are supposed to be adults and professionals, missing a curfew during the playoffs is unacceptable...especially when you have a shady reputation to begin with. You can gloss over it and say Nashville management overreacted, but these dummies selfishly put them in a tough position.

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07-25-2012, 10:51 AM
  #390
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Radulov and Kostitsyn deserve all the blame they get for missing their curfew. They aren't the reason they lost the series but they became a distraction to the team. These guys are supposed to be adults and professionals, missing a curfew during the playoffs is unacceptable...especially when you have a shady reputation to begin with. You can gloss over it and say Nashville management overreacted, but these dummies selfishly put them in a tough position.
The Nashville management didn't even know until they heard about it from a reporter AFTER the game. Yeah, they were clearly being a huge distraction, right? Everyone was super affected by something they weren't even aware of.

If it was a concern to the Preds management and they worried about disturbing the team then they should've talked to the two players in private, told them that it isn't acceptable and moved on. Instead they turned it into a problem that got a whole lot of attention and distracted from the game.

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07-25-2012, 10:59 AM
  #391
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The Nashville management didn't even know until they heard about it from a reporter AFTER the game. Yeah, they were clearly being a huge distraction, right? Everyone was super affected by something they weren't even aware of.

If it was a concern to the Preds management and they worried about disturbing the team then they should've talked to the two players in private, told them that it isn't acceptable and moved on. Instead they turned into a problem that got a whole lot of attention and distracted from the game.
So it's management's fault those guys missed curfew? Because they didn't learn about it until later its an excusable offense? Team rules mean nothing obviously...or maybe because they are Russian, something was lost in translation and it should be excused?

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07-25-2012, 11:10 AM
  #392
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So it's management's fault those guys missed curfew? Because they didn't learn about it until later its an excusable offense? Team rules mean nothing obviously...or maybe because they are Russian, something was lost in translation and it should be excused?
So in your mind missing the curfew by an hour to eat warrants being suspended for 1 game? Not even a warning first?

Tell me, what causes more distraction: suspending 2 of your top scorers or privately talking to them about an issue that's not even public knowledge yet? If anyone is to be blamed for distracting the team it's the management. They completely mishandled the situation.

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07-25-2012, 11:15 AM
  #393
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So in your mind missing the curfew by an hour to eat warrants being suspended for 1 game? Not even a warning first?

Tell me, what causes more distraction: suspending 2 of your top scorers or privately talking to them about an issue that's not even public knowledge yet? If anyone is to be blamed for distracting the team it's the management. They completely mishandled the situation.
Bingo. Their food was late FFS. Its not like they were partying. Trotz and Poile turned that into a media circus.

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07-25-2012, 11:15 AM
  #394
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I don't remember what happened exactly, did these two guys get wasted during the playoffs?

Might've been a better idea to save the disciplinary actions for later, especially since these guys are both UFAs and it's in the middle of a do or die playoff run.

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07-25-2012, 11:16 AM
  #395
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So in your mind missing the curfew by an hour to eat warrants being suspended for 1 game? Not even a warning first?

Tell me, what causes more distraction: suspending 2 of your top scorers or privately talking to them about an issue that's not even public knowledge yet? If anyone is to be blamed for distracting the team it's the management. They completely mishandled the situation.
You know what doesn't cause a distraction? Making your curfew on time. Are these guys children? There shouldn't even need to be a curfew, but obviously its put in place to keep players from doing anything stupid...and yet those two clowns go beyond the team rules. This isn't management's fault, this is the fault of two selfish players.

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07-25-2012, 11:17 AM
  #396
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I don't remember what happened exactly, did these two guys get wasted during the playoffs?

Might've been a better idea to save the disciplinary actions for later, especially since these guys are both UFAs and it's in the middle of a do or die playoff run.
They went out to eat, their food took a long time to come, they got back to the hotel sober 1 hour late. The management found out about it from a reporter 24 hours later and decided to suspend them.

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You know what doesn't cause a distraction? Making your curfew on time. Are these guys children? There shouldn't even need to be a curfew, but obviously its put in place to keep players from doing anything stupid...and yet those two clowns go beyond the team rules. This isn't management's fault, this is the fault of two selfish players.
Yeah, they aren't children that's why any reasonable person would assume that breaking curfew to eat is not going to be punishable with suspension.

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07-25-2012, 11:23 AM
  #397
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Yeah, they aren't children that's why any reasonable person would assume that breaking curfew to eat is not going to be punishable with suspension.
Breaking curfew to eat is ok? So it's not their fault they broke curfew, its the restaurants fault? So many excuses.

Who's genius idea was it to go out to eat dinner at midnight? No...it's very apparent from Radulov's behavior over his entire career that he's a petulant child.

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07-25-2012, 11:26 AM
  #398
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Breaking curfew to eat is ok? So it's not their fault they broke curfew, its the restaurants fault? So many excuses.

Who's genius idea was it to go out to eat dinner at midnight? No...it's very apparent from Radulov's behavior over his entire career that he's a petulant child.
Doesn't have anything to do with anything. Either way, don't care about this enough to continue this ridiculous argument. If you can't see that both parties made a mistake then I can't help you — considering your first argument against their actions was that they caused an unnecessary distraction, it's surprising to me that you don't see how the Preds management is at least partially responsible for overreacting and not dealing with the situation in private.

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07-25-2012, 11:27 AM
  #399
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Doesn't have anything to do with anything. Either way, don't care about this enough to continue this ridiculous argument. If you can't see that both parties made a mistake then I can't help you.
Fortunately, its not me who is in need of help. I understand how curfews work.

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07-25-2012, 11:50 AM
  #400
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I tend to agree with Tiranis on this one. Radulov and Kostitsyn should have planned better or just plain walked out on the restaurant when it becomes clear that their food isn't going to arrive on time, but the Preds management could have handled it better and recognized that the risk of "setting a bad precedent" is outweighed by the potential media circus and loss of important games that resulted.

I also think that most of you guys are having trouble getting over the "lazy Russians" narrative to evaluate this situation reasonably.

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