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Old
07-25-2012, 12:04 PM
  #401
ddawg1950
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I think Nashville's leadership used this rather minor occurrence to make a statement about who they were as a team...and tried to use it to rally what was beginning to look like a playoff run that was circling the drain.

And they failed, miserably.

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Old
07-25-2012, 12:33 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Yes, Radulov and AK47 were easy scape-goats for the team's poor coaching and management against Phoenix. Say what you want about his character, Radulov was still a guy who could have potted 60+ points.
How many guys out partying drunk off their face at 4am are going to play well in the following game?

No justification for that in team sports. At that point of the post-season you are only a month away from vacation at most, at worse, a week away from vacation- where you can get ****faced in any or every city in the world.

Suck it up- what Poile and Trotz did was 100% correct.

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So in your mind missing the curfew by an hour to eat warrants being suspended for 1 game? Not even a warning first?
.
For serious? Ever heard of room service? Jeezus. Lousy excuses.

Curfew is one of the strictest rules of an NHL'rs workplace.

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07-25-2012, 12:41 PM
  #403
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The very idea of a strict curfew is stupid. Expecting your players to show up on time, in good condition, and properly rested is one thing, but setting and enforcing a specific time at which they must be in their hotel rooms is just daft and smacks of a lack of respect for them and their judgement. Were the Nashville Predators running a professional hockey team, or a junior high school prom?

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07-25-2012, 01:00 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
The very idea of a strict curfew is stupid. Expecting your players to show up on time, in good condition, and properly rested is one thing, but setting and enforcing a specific time at which they must be in their hotel rooms is just daft and smacks of a lack of respect for them and their judgement. Were the Nashville Predators running a professional hockey team, or a junior high school prom?
I don't think it's that uncommon in the NHL. Laviolette runs a very tight ship in Philadelphia too, and Richards/Carter not being on board of it 100% of the time is a big reason why they were traded away.

(IIRC the Flyers had a sobriety board going on but neither Richard nor Carter ever signed up for that)

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07-25-2012, 01:02 PM
  #405
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How many guys out partying drunk off their face at 4am are going to play well in the following game?

No justification for that in team sports. At that point of the post-season you are only a month away from vacation at most, at worse, a week away from vacation- where you can get ****faced in any or every city in the world.

Suck it up- what Poile and Trotz did was 100% correct.
But that's not what happened. They came back before or just around midnight and were sober. They were only 1 hour late for their curfew. The 4am thing was just a fabrication. Considering nobody even realized that they came back late, I think it's pretty clear they were in a good shape in the morning and didn't reek of alcohol or look like they slept badly.

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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
I don't think it's that uncommon in the NHL. Laviolette runs a very tight ship in Philadelphia too, and Richards/Carter not being on board of it 100% of the time is a big reason why they were traded away.

(IIRC the Flyers had a sobriety board going on but neither Richard nor Carter ever signed up for that)
There still needs to be some level of respect. If you're late 1 damn hour because you were out eating then it's probably not the worst thing that could've happened. There's a reason once people heard about the suspension, the speculation immediately was that they were out till 4am and drunk.

Obviously they shouldn't have broken the curfew if the Preds are strict about it but at the same time look at Canucks and O'Brien: he showed up to practice late quite a few times (which IMO is a lot worse since it actually affects your teammates) and we didn't hear about it until it became a recurring issue.


Last edited by Tiranis: 07-25-2012 at 01:09 PM.
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Old
07-25-2012, 01:20 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
The very idea of a strict curfew is stupid. Expecting your players to show up on time, in good condition, and properly rested is one thing, but setting and enforcing a specific time at which they must be in their hotel rooms is just daft and smacks of a lack of respect for them and their judgement. Were the Nashville Predators running a professional hockey team, or a junior high school prom?
You realize the Canucks plan their entire travel schedule around telling their players when to sleep - not to mention their efforts to control what they eat, etc..

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07-25-2012, 01:25 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
You realize the Canucks plan their entire travel schedule around telling their players when to sleep - not to mention their efforts to control what they eat, etc..
Yes, I realize they have a travel schedule and need to stick to it. Players staying out half an hour or an hour past a specific time shouldn't be a threat to that schedule. It's reasonable to expect your players to be on time for work, whether that means showing up at the arena or the airport at a specific time, but in my opinion it's not reasonable or professional to demand that they be in their hotel rooms at specific times and to punish them with suspensions if they stay out a little bit past that time, particularly if their choices do not impact workplace performance. It's not like they were staying out until dawn and waking up completely hung-over.

Telling them that it's a good idea to be in bed at a reasonable hour so they can perform at the optimum level the next day is fine. Telling them that they absolutely need to be in bed by 10 PM (for instance) and not a minute later and then suspending them while making a fuss in the press about it if they stay out a little later is not acceptable.

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07-25-2012, 01:32 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
The very idea of a strict curfew is stupid. Expecting your players to show up on time, in good condition, and properly rested is one thing, but setting and enforcing a specific time at which they must be in their hotel rooms is just daft and smacks of a lack of respect for them and their judgement. Were the Nashville Predators running a professional hockey team, or a junior high school prom?
I don't think treating players like kids is the right thing to do, and Nashville shouldn't have benched Radulov and Kostitsyn but I understand the importance of a professional athlete in a stage as big as the NHL playoffs to get 7-9 hours of sleep. That said, benching them was a HUGE mistake.

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07-25-2012, 01:58 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I don't think treating players like kids is the right thing to do, and Nashville shouldn't have benched Radulov and Kostitsyn but I understand the importance of a professional athlete in a stage as big as the NHL playoffs to get 7-9 hours of sleep. That said, benching them was a HUGE mistake.
Curfews are in place for players like Radulov and Kostitsyn...ie kids.

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07-25-2012, 02:09 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Mann View Post
The very idea of a strict curfew is stupid. Expecting your players to show up on time, in good condition, and properly rested is one thing, but setting and enforcing a specific time at which they must be in their hotel rooms is just daft and smacks of a lack of respect for them and their judgement. Were the Nashville Predators running a professional hockey team, or a junior high school prom?
Different jobs have different rules.

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07-25-2012, 02:14 PM
  #411
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Yes, I realize they have a travel schedule and need to stick to it. Players staying out half an hour or an hour past a specific time shouldn't be a threat to that schedule. It's reasonable to expect your players to be on time for work, whether that means showing up at the arena or the airport at a specific time, but in my opinion it's not reasonable or professional to demand that they be in their hotel rooms at specific times and to punish them with suspensions if they stay out a little bit past that time, particularly if their choices do not impact workplace performance. It's not like they were staying out until dawn and waking up completely hung-over.

Telling them that it's a good idea to be in bed at a reasonable hour so they can perform at the optimum level the next day is fine. Telling them that they absolutely need to be in bed by 10 PM (for instance) and not a minute later and then suspending them while making a fuss in the press about it if they stay out a little later is not acceptable.
I'm not trying to say that Nashville did not overreact, my point is merely that there are far more considerations at hand than whether these organizations are treating their players like teenagers (and some of them actually are, let's not forget) or not.

Ultimately it may be vaguely insulting to players' professionalism to implement a hard curfew but the fact of the matter that this incident is closer to being proof that there is a need for them than proof that there isn't.

I agree that Nashville should have handled the two players who broke curfew differently; I don't agree that curfews in general are unnecessary. Losing a playoff game can mean millions of dollars for an organization and a team in Nashville's position could have had a vastly different outcome this offseason if they'd made it into the Conference Finals this year.

The implications are huge and the fact is that there are tons of players out there who can't manage themselves well enough to deliver come game time.

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07-25-2012, 05:16 PM
  #412
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maybe the curfew was there because certain players have issues.

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07-25-2012, 07:33 PM
  #413
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I thought the one game suspension was overkill for a 1 hour curfew violation. It makes me wonder if anti-Russian bias factored into the decision. If they were Canadian players, would they have gotten a similar punishment? I could see maybe making them do a bag-skate, but a 1 game suspension in the playoffs just seems like something a bush league team would do. The Predators still managed to win game 3 without them 2-0 and the series was 2-1 in favor of the Coyotes, still very much a winnable series.

Game 4 however was the kicker. Radulov and AK47 were no longer suspended by the team, yet they were still benched by Trotz. The Preds ended up losing that game 1-0 and the series was now 3-1 Coyotes with 2 out of 3 potential remaining games in Phoenix. Benching those two was just a poor coaching decision, there is no way to sugar-coat it. I think that Trotz let his prejudice against Russian players get the better of him, and he cost his team the series and possibly a shot at the cup. Would LA have rolled through the Preds? We'll never know for sure, but I don't think the Preds would have been as easy an out for them.

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07-25-2012, 08:27 PM
  #414
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So the Jackets traded 3 picks for Bobrovsky @ the draft and now there is word his KHL rights have been dealt to SKA St Petersburgh for something like $2.5 mil and that SKA may throw money at Bobrovsky after this season when his ELC ends with the Jackets... Nice trade CBJ...

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07-25-2012, 08:38 PM
  #415
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So the Jackets traded 3 picks for Bobrovsky @ the draft and now there is word his KHL rights have been dealt to SKA St Petersburgh for something like $2.5 mil and that SKA may throw money at Bobrovsky after this season when his ELC ends with the Jackets... Nice trade CBJ...
I don't know why they wanted him in the first place. Bobrovsky isn't very good.

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07-25-2012, 10:28 PM
  #416
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I tend to agree with Tiranis on this one. Radulov and Kostitsyn should have planned better or just plain walked out on the restaurant when it becomes clear that their food isn't going to arrive on time, but the Preds management could have handled it better and recognized that the risk of "setting a bad precedent" is outweighed by the potential media circus and loss of important games that resulted.

I also think that most of you guys are having trouble getting over the "lazy Russians" narrative to evaluate this situation reasonably.
they should have called management to inform them they would be late because they were waiting on food and not drinking. 1 phone call and I'm sure management are ok with it. what is the worst that can happen, you get told to come back and eat hotel food?

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07-26-2012, 01:54 AM
  #417
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I thought the one game suspension was overkill for a 1 hour curfew violation. It makes me wonder if anti-Russian bias factored into the decision. If they were Canadian players, would they have gotten a similar punishment? I could see maybe making them do a bag-skate, but a 1 game suspension in the playoffs just seems like something a bush league team would do. The Predators still managed to win game 3 without them 2-0 and the series was 2-1 in favor of the Coyotes, still very much a winnable series.

Game 4 however was the kicker. Radulov and AK47 were no longer suspended by the team, yet they were still benched by Trotz. The Preds ended up losing that game 1-0 and the series was now 3-1 Coyotes with 2 out of 3 potential remaining games in Phoenix. Benching those two was just a poor coaching decision, there is no way to sugar-coat it. I think that Trotz let his prejudice against Russian players get the better of him, and he cost his team the series and possibly a shot at the cup. Would LA have rolled through the Preds? We'll never know for sure, but I don't think the Preds would have been as easy an out for them.
Now it's a russian/Belarusian bias that led to the suspensions? What a ridiculous implication to make.

Tiranis must have been there at the hotel that night and personally smelled the two players' breath or some **** the way he is spouting off about this subject. The bottom line is that an organization doesn't just suspend key players in the middle of a deep playoff run, because their food was late causing them to barely miss curfew. Something else is missing from this story. If not you would have at the very least seen a grievance/ investigation occur from the NHLPA.

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07-26-2012, 01:57 AM
  #418
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If you're going to be late, call. After curfew, the only person who knows where you are, whether you're safe, and when you'll be home, is you. Be responsible.

I had that conversation with every teen I ever fostered. The minute Kostitsyn and Radilov were unaccounted for they created concern and anxiety for the Preds. It doesn't matter what they were doing if nobody knows until the worst has been thought. That's just selfish behavior, whether they're grown men or not.

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07-26-2012, 02:17 AM
  #419
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If you're going to be late, call. After curfew, the only person who knows where you are, whether you're safe, and when you'll be home, is you. Be responsible.

I had that conversation with every teen I ever fostered. The minute Kostitsyn and Radilov were unaccounted for they created concern and anxiety for the Preds. It doesn't matter what they were doing if nobody knows until the worst has been thought. That's just selfish behavior, whether they're grown men or not.
What? Nobody even knew they missed the curfew until 24 hours later when a reporter told the Preds management and they checked the logs on the hotel cards.

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07-26-2012, 02:25 AM
  #420
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Now it's a russian/Belarusian bias that led to the suspensions? What a ridiculous implication to make.

Tiranis must have been there at the hotel that night and personally smelled the two players' breath or some **** the way he is spouting off about this subject. The bottom line is that an organization doesn't just suspend key players in the middle of a deep playoff run, because their food was late causing them to barely miss curfew. Something else is missing from this story. If not you would have at the very least seen a grievance/ investigation occur from the NHLPA.
The bias most likely factored into the benching for the 2nd game, when the 1 game suspension was complete. The first game suspension by management was suspicious enough, the 2nd game was all on Trotz. They ended up losing 1-0 with 2 of their better offensive players needlessly out of the line-up.

You may not believe they got suspended for barely missing curfew, but that is what in fact happened. There were some early false reports that they were out drinking until 4am, which is why public opinion turned on them right away. That in itself was suspicious, it almost seems like the organization planted the story to insulate themselves from angry blow-back from their fans.

As for why there was no grievance, the players aren't paid per game in the playoffs, they just get relatively small bonuses per round. If it was a regular season game, or if it was a league suspension as opposed to a team imposed suspension, it's possible the NHLPA gets involved to protect their dues-paying members. Maybe they hoped to get back into the line-up, and a grievance would have put them back in the dog house. It turned out not to matter, because Trotz' questionable coaching decision led to a 3-1 Coyotes series lead and an eventual early exit for the squad.


Last edited by Hammer79: 07-26-2012 at 02:34 AM.
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07-26-2012, 03:00 AM
  #421
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The one thing I will take away from the Rudo+Kost suspension: Nashville management doesn't have their player's backs.

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07-26-2012, 03:23 AM
  #422
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The one thing I will take away from the Rudo+Kost suspension: Nashville management doesn't have their player's backs.
I wonder if Suter and Weber came to that conclusion too when they signed contracts with different teams?

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07-26-2012, 10:52 AM
  #423
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Holmgren Locks up Voracek to a 4 year 17M contract, before the offer sheets started rolling in.

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07-26-2012, 11:01 AM
  #424
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The bias most likely factored into the benching for the 2nd game, when the 1 game suspension was complete. The first game suspension by management was suspicious enough, the 2nd game was all on Trotz. They ended up losing 1-0 with 2 of their better offensive players needlessly out of the line-up.

You may not believe they got suspended for barely missing curfew, but that is what in fact happened. There were some early false reports that they were out drinking until 4am, which is why public opinion turned on them right away. That in itself was suspicious, it almost seems like the organization planted the story to insulate themselves from angry blow-back from their fans.

As for why there was no grievance, the players aren't paid per game in the playoffs, they just get relatively small bonuses per round. If it was a regular season game, or if it was a league suspension as opposed to a team imposed suspension, it's possible the NHLPA gets involved to protect their dues-paying members. Maybe they hoped to get back into the line-up, and a grievance would have put them back in the dog house. It turned out not to matter, because Trotz' questionable coaching decision led to a 3-1 Coyotes series lead and an eventual early exit for the squad.
Coaches usually dont tinker with a winning lineup. To sit there with a straight face, and actually spew that these two players were scratched for the second game, simply because Barry Trotz hates Russians is the lamest thing that Ive heard all year..... And no, I dont beleive these guys were waiting on food, and it made them "a little late" that night either.

It doesnt matter if players dont recieve a salary during the playoffs, they still have rights, and you can be sure as **** there would have been union involvment in this situation, if both players really felt that their suspensions were not justified. The bottom line is that these two players simply knew that they messed up, and thats why no grievance was ever filed.

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07-26-2012, 11:06 AM
  #425
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Holmgren Locks up Voracek to a 4 year 17M contract, before the offer sheets started rolling in.
Wonder if he received any offer sheets but just chose not to sign them.

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