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Vancouver Rebuild

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Old
05-10-2013, 03:30 PM
  #1
Al Swearengen
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Vancouver Rebuild

I'm sure this will stir up some discussion. For the full 4000 word epic, check it out at SmugNation.com.

Basically, the group the Canucks have right now is broken. Whether that is due to coaching or personnel, I'll leave up to you. After axing Vigneault (which seems a foregone conclusion at this point), this is one scenario that improves the Canucks vastly. The only thing to do after that is to argue the valuations.

Step I: Let My People Go

Malhotra, Alberts, Roy and Raymond all walk.

Step II: Making Moves

Vancouver trades Alex Edler to the Anaheim Ducks for Bobby Ryan ($5.1 million cap hit, UFA in 2015)

Ryan would bring a balanced offensive attack along with grit and size to Vancouver’s new top line, and it should benefit Kesler to have an olympic teammate he can trust on the wing. On Anaheim’s end, Sheldon Souray isn’t getting any younger and the Ducks look to be coming into form as a force in the west with the development of Smith-Pelly, Bonino, Palmeiri, Winnik and Cogliano in the forward group. Expect them to go to the free agent market for replacements for the ageless Saku Koivu and Teemu Selanne, should the day ever comes they finally have to.

Vancouver trades Alex Burrows, Jordan Schroeder, David Booth and Vancouver’s 2013 2nd round draft pick to the Winnipeg Jets for Blake Wheeler (2013 RFA). Vancouver signs Wheeler for 3 years, $14 million, or $4.666 million against the cap annually.

Winnipeg does this because its a four-for-one that allows them to get better and younger at Kyle Wellwood’s slot in the top-nine. They do it because their penalty kill sucked and the Jets need more veterans with grit and skill like Burrows. They do it because it’s pretty straight value. They would slot both Burrows and Schroeder on the right side. Vancouver does it because Blake Wheeler still has upside at 23, and could really distribute the puck to Kesler and Ryan. Plus he’s 6’5″.

Vancouver trades Cory Schneider, Keith Ballard and Vancouver’s 1st overall pick (23rd overall) to the Philadelphia Flyers for Sean Couturier ($1.375 million, 2015 RFA) and Philadelphia’s 1st overall pick (11th).

Philly is desperate for defensemen to fill the gap left by Matt Carle and Chris Pronger, and Ballard would be a fine depth piece to help bridge the gap between the draft picks while the Flyers wait to see how injured Meszaros, Coburn and Walker turn out to be. If that weren’t enough, Kimmo Timmonen is coming on 38. The most important thing here, next to netting Couturier, is to shed Ballard rather than to capitalize on him in a tangible return, which would be next to impossible. I have Schneider as the more valuable piece between he and Couturier. For Philly, its going to be tough to keep all of the youth in the forward corps. At least one of Matt Read, Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Jakob Voracek, Sean Couturier and Eric Wellwood is going to have to go. Most importantly, they need a goalie very badly. Ilya Bryzgalov, he of the “why you heff to be mad” speech, is not that guy. Luckily Ed Sneider has deep pockets with Comcast behind him.

Step III: Filler' Up


Vancouver signs Scott Hannan for one year, $1.3 million
Vancouver resigns RFA Yann Sauve for two years, $1.4 million


Hannan is used to travel (five teams in the past four seasons) and has only been in San Jose for one shortened season, so loyalty shouldn’t be too much of an issue compared to someone like Ferrence. Hannan is an offensive black hole, but Vancouver doesn’t need a puck-mover on the third pairing. Defensively, he’s very solid, and at age 34, he shouldn’t decline much. And while we’re on the subject of depth defensemen, I actually now think that we can slot Yann Sauve into the #7 hole on defense. Its probably time to see if the big, mobile d-man is ready for NHL hockey. If not, someone can be added mid-season.

Which leads us finally into the final two positions, 4th-line left winger and 13th forward.

Vancouver signs Matt Hendricks to two years, $1.9 million (two way)
Vancouver resigns RFA Bill Sweatt to two years, $1.6 million (two way)


Hendricks has looked pretty good for the Capitals in their (very entertaining) series against the Rangers, and shouldn’t be too costly to add. He’s 31, good in the corners, defensively solid. He wont score points for any club, but he will bang and is a well liked locker room guy. Billy Sweatt looked less like a career AHLer this year and has enough offensive acumen to slot in almost anywhere on the roster. Plus there’s always the hope that Jensen is ready to go.

And at long last, if I’m not mistaken, that’s a 21 man NHL roster with a legitimate chance at winning the Stanley cup. Sure, the defense isn’t quite as good in losing Edler and adding Hannan, but the top-nine on offense is much, much better. Luongo is the sole number one, and the Kesler line is so much better it’s silly. Best part? This team is well below the salary cap, with more than enough money stashed to make significant deadline additions:

FORWARDS
Bobby Ryan ($5.100m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Blake Wheeler ($4.666m)
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Matt Hendricks ($0.950m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Dale Weise ($0.800m)
Bill Sweatt ($0.800m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Chris Tanev ($1.750m)
Scott Hannan ($1.300m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)
Yann Sauve ($0.709m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
——
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,002,528; BONUSES: $450,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $4,747,472

Flame away.

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05-10-2013, 03:40 PM
  #2
Mr Misty
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Dallas has your 2013 2nd.

Also not sure about the Philly trade. I think Couturier and the 11th will cost more, especially since Ballard has negative value because he is expensive for a team that wants to be near the cap for his production.

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05-10-2013, 03:44 PM
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iFan
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Media question to mike gillis yesterday, do you think Luongo will be here come fall...

Mike gillis, no


Next day Nuck fan trades Schneider.... I think Gillis made it clear Schneider is going nowhere and he'll likely give Luongo away for nothing.

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05-10-2013, 03:47 PM
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sully1410
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No way Winnipeg does that lol. We need top six forwards, we're not about to be trading any away. Especially for a guy that's largely a product of the Sedins, an undersized center which does not
Match the vision for this team whatsoever, a one dimensional winger in Booth and a late second.

That's funny though.

I really don't see any o those trades happening to be honest. I anything you should try to retain Roy. Adds scoring depth.

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05-10-2013, 03:48 PM
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Number1RedWingsFan52
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I would love to see Detroit go after Edler if he becomes available, What would Vancouver want for him. And FYI I dont see Anaheim doing a one for one swap between Edler and Ryan. Anaheim will want other pieces as well.

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05-10-2013, 03:49 PM
  #6
Seatoo
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Jets say no
Philly says no

Bad UFA signings for the most part

Luo is selling his condo in Vancouver, he's moving on so moving Schnider isn't an option.

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05-10-2013, 03:51 PM
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Djp
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Ryan for Edler..no issue there......

Vancouvers 1st round pick is as of now 26th.....it will only fall by the number of spots non diviion winners make the semifinals...so 23rd pick is a serious reach...3 of final 4 are not division winners.

Why does Winnipeg do that deal? Fair argument about wanting to acquire Wheeler. Dont see Winnipeg taking back that much salary. I thnk they will ask for Jensen in return as part of a package.

Philadelphia deal...its conceivable. Getting ballard in return....not sure they want him.

I think if you dd the Philly trade frst and got their 11th pick....then offered that to Winnipeg for their 14th...you may get more interest.

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05-10-2013, 03:52 PM
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Vankiller Whale
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No offense, but this doesn't really look like a rebuild to me.

Edler for Ryan is a lateral move. Burrows, Schroeder, Booth, 2nd seems like overpayment for Wheeler, and we're giving up futures.

Schneider is not so valuable as to net Couturier, moving up 10 spots in the draft, and allow us to dump Ballard on Philly.

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05-10-2013, 03:52 PM
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palindrom
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Steve mason was the statistically most dominant goaltender of the league in his 7 game with the flyers: 9.44% 1.90

it doesn't mean that much but we can presume the flyers will give a chance to Mason who could enter his prime before acquiring an older goalie.

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05-10-2013, 04:08 PM
  #10
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PHI trade is lopsided for Vancouver.

Sauve has near zero chance of being an NHL regular, don't just look at draft position and assume he's the next best defender on our prospects list.

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05-10-2013, 04:10 PM
  #11
hlaverty06
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Don't think Hendricks takes a two way deal

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05-10-2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iFan View Post
Media question to mike gillis yesterday, do you think Luongo will be here come fall...

Mike gillis, no


Next day Nuck fan trades Schneider.... I think Gillis made it clear Schneider is going nowhere and he'll likely give Luongo away for nothing.
"It's unlikely" was his actual reply, but spin-spin away.

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05-10-2013, 04:21 PM
  #13
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Anaheim would get better value for Ryan elsewhere

Winnipeg hangs up the phone.

I don't think Philly does this trade, they are going to give Mason a shot and keep if they want to trade SC they can probably find a trade that fits them better without giving up a first.

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05-10-2013, 04:23 PM
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marty111
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Well thought out proposal but I don't think it's going to fly.

The honest truth is that it is "almost impossible" to turn a team from struggling to legitimately contend for the cup into a young dynamic team ready to compete for the long term right away.

It's just not going to happen.

Veterans, albeit damn good ones, will not return young budding superstars. Or perhaps it's more appropriate to say that they won't return enough to completely change the makeup of a team overnight.

Teams that want guys like the Sedin's, Luongo, Bieksa, etc. generally don't have high end young talent that is ready to go. If they manage to have a guy like Couture, Couturier, Schenn, etc., they generally hold on to them tightly as they are tremendously valuable in a cap game and loading up a team for their own cup drive.

The types of returns I see the Canucks getting are 1st [which take a few years to take form], roster players that are not innately important to the team trading them and other prospects of lesser value.

We see these kinds of trades all the time.

The summer will be interesting but some of the expectations I've seen from Canucks fans simply will not be met. Argue value all you want but at the end of the day the Vancouver Canucks either:

A. Stick with the team they have and tinker to win within the window they have with their core guys.

B. Unload everyone they deem expendable over 30 and patiently wait for the fruits of those returns to take form over 3-5 years.

I don't see any other way for them. If they happen to choose B, I can't imagine them getting top of the mark value for everyone [especially a team littered with NTC/NMC] under the pressure to make something happen now.

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05-10-2013, 04:39 PM
  #15
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Very well thought out and i like it, but i dont see it happening. Gillis wont trade Edler right before his NTC kicks in and i dont see Philly buying out bryz. Also Blake Wheeler is 26 btw, not 23.

Real soild post tho GJ.

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05-10-2013, 04:54 PM
  #16
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That Philly trade is awful. Couturier is worth more than Schneider and they're adding an 11th overall in a deep draft to take on a cap dump and a lower pick? Bryzgalov is a good enough goalie to make the playoffs with.

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05-10-2013, 05:15 PM
  #17
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You've got to be joking with that Philadelphia trade.

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05-10-2013, 05:22 PM
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blankall
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You'd be much better off not including players like Ballard and Booth. Those are straight out cap dumps, and large ones at that. They're inclusion is going to automatically scare teams away.

Also, the difference between Schneider and Couturier is not 11 places in draft order.

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05-10-2013, 05:40 PM
  #19
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Vancouver... Dumps 20 million in salary, takes almost nothing back. Seems legit. You put a lot of wasted effort in to this. Not a single one of those trades even slightly favour the other team. The only one that's close is Philly. But that is ruined by the fact you want 11th pick and expect them to eat Ballards contract.

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05-10-2013, 05:46 PM
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I got to be honest . I hate the Canucks too many divers . Also to be honest the Canucks like my Oilers has a boat load of talent . You do not need a rebuild you need to get some grit and toughness threw your line up . You guys have great goaltending , just the Sedins go missing when the going gets tough . I think if you could add someone like a Simmon,s or Lucic to play with the Sedins it would open things up for then . Also like Hemsky , Kesler,s is injury a lot . i think right now you can still get a big payment for him . Don,t hold on him to long like Tambellini did with Hemsky .

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05-10-2013, 05:53 PM
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If i was rebuilding...This is off what posters have said their team would want off of VAN.

Burrows + Bieksa to OTT for Noesen + Puempel + Stone/Ceci
Edler + 1st to PHI Couturier + 1st
Hamhuis to TOR for Franson, Leivo, Colborne, 1st
Schneider to EDM for 1st, Zharkov, Musil, Dubnyk
Sedin(50%) to PIT for 1st, Maata, Zlobin, Pouliot, 2nd and conditional 1st(Win Cup) (PIT all in agian with Crosby Malkin core)
Kesler to CBJ for 1st, Jenner, Umberger

prospects everywhereee

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05-10-2013, 05:54 PM
  #22
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiCKNESS View Post
If i was rebuilding...This is off what posters have said their team would want off of VAN.

Burrows + Bieksa to OTT for Noesen + Puempel + Stone/Ceci
Edler + 1st to PHI Couturier + 1st
Hamhuis to TOR for Franson, Leivo, Colborne, 1st
Schneider to EDM for 1st, Zharkov, Musil, Dubnyk
Sedin(50%) to PIT for 1st, Maata, Zlobin, Pouliot, 2nd and conditional 1st(Win Cup) (PIT all in agian with Crosby Malkin core)
Kesler to CBJ for 1st, Jenner, Umberger

prospects everywhereee
Wouldn't trade the Sedins or Hamhuis, values aside.

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05-10-2013, 06:13 PM
  #23
Al Swearengen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
Dallas has your 2013 2nd.
Damnit, you're right.

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05-10-2013, 06:22 PM
  #24
Al Swearengen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiCKNESS View Post
If i was rebuilding...This is off what posters have said their team would want off of VAN.

Burrows + Bieksa to OTT for Noesen + Puempel + Stone/Ceci
Edler + 1st to PHI Couturier + 1st
Hamhuis to TOR for Franson, Leivo, Colborne, 1st
Schneider to EDM for 1st, Zharkov, Musil, Dubnyk
Sedin(50%) to PIT for 1st, Maata, Zlobin, Pouliot, 2nd and conditional 1st(Win Cup) (PIT all in agian with Crosby Malkin core)
Kesler to CBJ for 1st, Jenner, Umberger

prospects everywhereee
This is a lot more what part 2 of my piece will look like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
You'd be much better off not including players like Ballard and Booth. Those are straight out cap dumps, and large ones at that. They're inclusion is going to automatically scare teams away.

Also, the difference between Schneider and Couturier is not 11 places in draft order.
Reasonable people can disagree, but its possible I reached. In the article, I have Booth worth a 2nd and Ballard worth a 4th (upon reflection, maybe a 5th). I'll stand by those valuations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
Vancouver... Dumps 20 million in salary, takes almost nothing back. Seems legit. You put a lot of wasted effort in to this. Not a single one of those trades even slightly favour the other team. The only one that's close is Philly. But that is ruined by the fact you want 11th pick and expect them to eat Ballards contract.
So then its not close for Philly either!? I don't find the effort wasted at all. My website is getting lots of hits and I enjoyed writing it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Well thought out proposal but I don't think it's going to fly.

The honest truth is that it is "almost impossible" to turn a team from struggling to legitimately contend for the cup into a young dynamic team ready to compete for the long term right away.

It's just not going to happen.

Veterans, albeit damn good ones, will not return young budding superstars. Or perhaps it's more appropriate to say that they won't return enough to completely change the makeup of a team overnight.

Teams that want guys like the Sedin's, Luongo, Bieksa, etc. generally don't have high end young talent that is ready to go. If they manage to have a guy like Couture, Couturier, Schenn, etc., they generally hold on to them tightly as they are tremendously valuable in a cap game and loading up a team for their own cup drive.

The types of returns I see the Canucks getting are 1st [which take a few years to take form], roster players that are not innately important to the team trading them and other prospects of lesser value.

We see these kinds of trades all the time.

The summer will be interesting but some of the expectations I've seen from Canucks fans simply will not be met. Argue value all you want but at the end of the day the Vancouver Canucks either:

A. Stick with the team they have and tinker to win within the window they have with their core guys.

B. Unload everyone they deem expendable over 30 and patiently wait for the fruits of those returns to take form over 3-5 years.

I don't see any other way for them. If they happen to choose B, I can't imagine them getting top of the mark value for everyone [especially a team littered with NTC/NMC] under the pressure to make something happen now.
I disagree with nothing in this post. The article was not meant to reflect or predict reality, but rather to stir conversation.

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05-10-2013, 06:28 PM
  #25
Number1RedWingsFan52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiCKNESS View Post
If i was rebuilding...This is off what posters have said their team would want off of VAN.

Burrows + Bieksa to OTT for Noesen + Puempel + Stone/Ceci
Edler + 1st to PHI Couturier + 1st
Hamhuis to TOR for Franson, Leivo, Colborne, 1st
Schneider to EDM for 1st, Zharkov, Musil, Dubnyk
Sedin(50%) to PIT for 1st, Maata, Zlobin, Pouliot, 2nd and conditional 1st(Win Cup) (PIT all in agian with Crosby Malkin core)
Kesler to CBJ for 1st, Jenner, Umberger

prospects everywhereee
Why would Kessler accept a trade to Columbus, I'm sure he would rather come home to Detroit before accepting a move to Columbus imo.

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