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The Way Forward

View Poll Results: Which Way Do We Go?
Rebuild As We Go (Sign UFAs/Hold On to Young Assets) 65 57.52%
Go for Broke (Trade Young Assets for #1 Defense, Top Line Winger) 27 23.89%
Total Rebuild (Trade off Old Assets, give playing time to kids) 16 14.16%
Other 5 4.42%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:14 AM
  #1
RedWingsNow*
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The Way Forward

We are at a crossroads.
Which way do we go?

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:16 AM
  #2
Bench
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Sell picks and youth, overpay, and give D and Z a few years where they can try to win another Cup.

Then pray it actually helps, the guys you gave up weren't that good, and in 4-5 years you're not entirely awful with a depleted farm system.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:18 AM
  #3
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Preferably the way that keeps the Wings winning and competing for the cup.

As it stands the defense is just not good enough. Top four is very weak, but the last pairing is good. Holland needs to make some calls and see if he can acquire any physical defensemen that eat up a ton of minutes. He doesnt have to be amazing/game changer like Suter, but a solid player who doesnt make a ton of mistakes.

Offensively, Holland needs to sign Semin and trade Flip for Nash if possible. If Howsen is still a moron and asking for Smith/Nyquist, you tell him to enjoy not seeing the Jackets in the playoffs for another decade.

Last season's team overachieved in the regular season by quite a bit. The playoffs was what we should have expected them to look like. This year, i very much doubt we will be seeing a ton of overachieving.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:20 AM
  #4
patekilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Preferably the way that keeps the Wings winning and competing for the cup.

As it stands the defense is just not good enough. Top four is very weak, but the last pairing is good. Holland needs to make some calls and see if he can acquire any physical defensemen that eat up a ton of minutes. He doesnt have to be amazing/game changer like Suter, but a solid player who doesnt make a ton of mistakes.

Offensively, Holland needs to sign Semin and trade Flip for Nash if possible. If Howsen is still a moron and asking for Smith/Nyquist, you tell him to enjoy not seeing the Jackets in the playoffs for another decade.
This.

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07-05-2012, 11:21 AM
  #5
doublejack
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I say go for broke, trading picks and prospects (and some roster players if required) to get a legit #1 defender (or as close as possible) and a scoring winger. Signing Semin might suffice.

It puzzles me why Holland didn't go this route a season or two ago, when he knew Lidstrom's time was coming to an end soon. We had a limited window. Now, with Lidstrom gone and Datsyuk & Zetterberg aging, the window of opportunity is even more narrow.

I think we go all in now, and then blow it up a few seasons and rebuild from scratch. Trying to rebuild on the fly will just keep us at a mediocre level.

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07-05-2012, 11:23 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Preferably the way that keeps the Wings winning and competing for the cup.

As it stands the defense is just not good enough. Top four is very weak, but the last pairing is good. Holland needs to make some calls and see if he can acquire any physical defensemen that eat up a ton of minutes. He doesnt have to be amazing/game changer like Suter, but a solid player who doesnt make a ton of mistakes.

Offensively, Holland needs to sign Semin and trade Flip for Nash if possible. If Howsen is still a moron and asking for Smith/Nyquist, you tell him to enjoy not seeing the Jackets in the playoffs for another decade.

Last season's team overachieved in the regular season by quite a bit. The playoffs was what we should have expected them to look like. This year, i very much doubt we will be seeing a ton of overachieving.
You simply will not get Nash for Flip. Nyquist, Ouellet? Is that even fair?
If you want some team's franchise player, you can't offer spare parts.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:24 AM
  #7
Syckle78
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Blow it up and go for a rebuild. I think it is inevitable we are going to need a major overhaul of this team in the near future. I really fear ending up in a position like Calgary is in where we are treading water year after year fighting and clawing for a playoff spot. Better to miss the playoffs entirely and draft high than to make and be a first round loss or finish 9th year after year. I am not saying we are that bad yet, but I want to make sure we never get there.

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07-05-2012, 11:25 AM
  #8
WingedWheel1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
You simply will not get Nash for Flip. Nyquist, Ouellet? Is that even fair?
If you want some team's franchise player, you can't offer spare parts.
Not at all. That would be the center piece for the trade.

Flip, Cleary (cap dump), Kindl, (A) level forward prospect, +1st round pick.

2 1/2 NHL players (Cleary being the 1/2), a prospect and a draft pick.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:27 AM
  #9
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I say go for broke. We took an overly conservative approach since 2005, won a cup and have been the most successful team in the league. But our asset management in prospects haven't really gotten us anywhere, we've never traded anything really good. We traded Matthias for Bertuzzi, but Matthias isn't exactly a great player at this point.

I think we wasted some opportunities the past few years where Lidstrom could still be effective and went with teams based on hope and parity. Now we're in a situation where we might waste more years of Datsyuk and Z just to hold onto some promising players who may or may not even get a shot in legit roles when they do get here.

Make some trades, take some risks, do what you can. Because if Datsyuk and Z retire in 5 years without taking a chance to win again I think it'll be really disappointing.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:29 AM
  #10
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Go for broke if possible. I just don't believe we have the young assets it takes to acquire the piece(s) we truly need.

Still waiting to see what happens with Semin.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:34 AM
  #11
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I like the idea of rebuilding on-the-fly but the time for that was two years ago and Holland, regretfully, sat on his hands.

Go for broke, sign Semin, find a way to get Weber or another #1 and buy us another three year window.

Datsyuk will be 34 in two weeks.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:35 AM
  #12
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So... picking between

Calgary
Toronto
Edmonton

None

But honestly, we have so many young assets that will never see time with the team at this rate. Might as well start trying to move some of them. I just wish our team wasn't so vanilla. I really liked the Tootoo and Gus signings because it mixed things up a little. I'm glad we avoided Carle since he's already similar to our PMDs we already have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
As it stands the defense is just not good enough. Top four is very weak, but the last pairing is good. Holland needs to make some calls and see if he can acquire any physical defensemen that eat up a ton of minutes. He doesnt have to be amazing/game changer like Suter, but a solid player who doesnt make a ton of mistakes.

Offensively, Holland needs to sign Semin and trade Flip for Nash if possible. If Howsen is still a moron and asking for Smith/Nyquist, you tell him to enjoy not seeing the Jackets in the playoffs for another decade.
This is essentially what I would like to see more of^. Stronger, physical defensemen.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:35 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
I say go for broke, trading picks and prospects (and some roster players if required) to get a legit #1 defender (or as close as possible) and a scoring winger. Signing Semin might suffice.

It puzzles me why Holland didn't go this route a season or two ago, when he knew Lidstrom's time was coming to an end soon. We had a limited window. Now, with Lidstrom gone and Datsyuk & Zetterberg aging, the window of opportunity is even more narrow.

I think we go all in now, and then blow it up a few seasons and rebuild from scratch. Trying to rebuild on the fly will just keep us at a mediocre level.

Pretty much what I was going to say. Our best players are Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen and Kronwall. One could argue about Filppula but he's not the mail carrier like the others (and Franzen is allegedly capable of 30 G).

The window is starting to close. I think trying to rebuild on the fly, which in Holland's case seems to be the UFA route, has shown that they can't get the guys they want that can really make a difference. Staying this course would continue to yield mediocre results, maybe qualify you for the playoffs and not much more. Imagine trying to do this after you lose Datsyuk, for example, which may not be that far off. He once said he may just want to go back to Russia/retire after this contract expires.

I think that's your window-- Datsyuk's expiry date. Load it up now and sacrifice whatever middling players you need to get better pieces. I think it's easier to find replacements on the UFA front, even if it means overpaying slightly, than gunning for the big guns. The mid-level guys aren't going to command lifetime + $100MM commitments.*



*Keep in mind that teams must insure their top seven contracts, but insurance only covers the first seven years. NHL contracts are guaranteed (unless the CBA changes that), so the best you can hope for is LTIR relief in terms of the cap, but the team still must pay those out if a player can't continue.

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07-05-2012, 11:37 AM
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I think the time to go for broke was the last three years and that window closed. The last three years of Lids career and three years of prime Dats and Z were wasted on some tweener plan of plugging holes with mediocre players for whatever reason. Its either rebuild on the fly or full rebuild at this point, IMO.

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07-05-2012, 11:38 AM
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I voted for : Rebuild As We Go (Sign UFAs/Hold On to Young Assets).

But, if we can find a deal for Nash or some D-man that is fairly decent, we should go for it and : Go for Broke (Trade Young Assets for #1 Defense, Top Line Winger).


Just don't use the panic-button.

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Old
07-05-2012, 11:39 AM
  #16
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Trade for Yandle and Nash, take the consequences later. This team needs not one but two injections asap.

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07-05-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuick View Post
Go for broke if possible. I just don't believe we have the young assets it takes to acquire the piece(s) we truly need.

Still waiting to see what happens with Semin.
I don't think we have the pieces to pull in someone like Nash or Ryan, either - at least not without losing someone who would offset the positives of the move to the point of not gaining headway with the deal. So I chose other, and think it needs to be some combination of the two rebuild options. Bringing in Brunner, Sammy and Tootoo gives us the room to move guys like Miller, Emmerton and Eaves while also giving us room to move in Nyquist up front. Sign Doan and/or Semin, and we can look to move another asset like Cleary in a package for either prospects, picks or some other form of help.

If a bigger trade can be made that doesn't gut us (either on the farm or the wings roster), pursue it knowing we have some kids and an excess of middle tier players to fill in the gaps.

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07-05-2012, 11:40 AM
  #18
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Take some risks. Make some big trades (Nash/Bouwmeester/Yandle). Win while Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still stars.

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07-05-2012, 11:40 AM
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Our core is still pretty good. Kronner, Howard, Fil are not that old. Datsyuk and Z have 2-3 good/great years in them. They deserve another shot at the Cup. We only need add 2 quality pieces and we are back in business. Stupid to tank.

Try to sign and trade best available players.
Try to keep Smith, Nyqvist, Jarnkrok and bring them in ASAP. Move them if you get well... Weber. Move every other prospect if needed.
Move Franzen or Fil if you can get an upgrade.

If there are no reasonable deals this season then don't panic and take any stupid contracts on. Survive this season. Go after Getzlaf, Perry (Babs connection), Enstrom, Streit, Edler. There are other good players available.

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07-05-2012, 11:41 AM
  #20
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Voted other. I fall in between the 1st two choices.

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07-05-2012, 11:42 AM
  #21
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Oh and the only prospects they must keep are Smith (if he still count as a prospect) and järnkrok, fire off the others if need be, picks and players on the roster. (filppula, franzen, helm, howard etc are probably the most attractive ones)

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07-05-2012, 11:50 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
I think the time to go for broke was the last three years and that window closed. The last three years of Lids career and three years of prime Dats and Z were wasted on some tweener plan of plugging holes with mediocre players for whatever reason. Its either rebuild on the fly or full rebuild at this point, IMO.
I fear you might be correct, in which case the only real option is to blow it up. Rebuilding on the fly only works *if* you can land the star UFA's. Otherwise you are reloading with average players, resulting in an average team.

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07-05-2012, 11:53 AM
  #23
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If we are willing to give up a 1 for quincy why not give up 2 picks and a prospect for nash. Not Smith

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07-05-2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
I fear you might be correct, in which case the only real option is to blow it up. Rebuilding on the fly only works *if* you can land the star UFA's. Otherwise you are reloading with average players, resulting in an average team.
Why can't you rebuild on the fly via trade?

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07-05-2012, 11:54 AM
  #25
WingedWheel1987
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Why can't you rebuild on the fly via trade?
That would require a GM that does trades.

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