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Blues Trade Proposals Part 3

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02-13-2013, 01:07 AM
  #826
frostyflo
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Not me.
Me neither. Don't want to trade a good team player on a good contract for a guy who seems to play just for his pocket and is looking for an undeserved contract

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02-13-2013, 02:50 AM
  #827
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Me neither. Don't want to trade a good team player on a good contract for a guy who seems to play just for his pocket and is looking for an undeserved contract
Same here. Severely overrated player asking for too much money. I don't want him anywhere near this team.

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02-13-2013, 02:58 AM
  #828
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He's not overrated at all.

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02-13-2013, 03:03 AM
  #829
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He's not overrated at all.
Possibly the most overrated player in the trade section right now. 3 season in the NHL and hasn't done anything special. Yes he can play a great defensive game while putting up points but did it once. Doesn't deserve anywhere near the money he is asking

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02-13-2013, 03:54 AM
  #830
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Outproduced our whole team at the age of 21.

"Nothing special."

And he's the hot available name right now, who do you expect people to be talking about? That doesn't make him overrated. Nobody is saying he's Crosby, but the kid is a damn good hockey player at a young age - of course teams are going to want him. And yeah maybe he might be asking for too much money right now, big deal. But also, we really have no idea what is going on behind the scenes with O'Reilly and the Avalanche front office. Some sources have said both sides are at fault. So let's not jump to conclusions and act like he's some spoiled brat asking for the world here when we really don't know anything that is going on at all.

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02-13-2013, 05:08 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
Outproduced our whole team at the age of 21.

"Nothing special."

And he's the hot available name right now, who do you expect people to be talking about? That doesn't make him overrated. Nobody is saying he's Crosby, but the kid is a damn good hockey player at a young age - of course teams are going to want him. And yeah maybe he might be asking for too much money right now, big deal. But also, we really have no idea what is going on behind the scenes with O'Reilly and the Avalanche front office. Some sources have said both sides are at fault. So let's not jump to conclusions and act like he's some spoiled brat asking for the world here when we really don't know anything that is going on at all.
-overrated or not, nobody says he isn't good

-yeah he outproduced a low-scoring, defensive orientated team that saw its best 3 offensive weapons out for a significant time.
That's still good, very good. But special? Not so much.

-usually the 2 things you negotiate for a new deal are how long and how much. So let's say he really isn't looking for the big bucks the term is the logical issue here and he won't get a long term deal from Army. No one did. Maybe Petro will but is a guy I would consider as "something special"

Bottom line is that I don't think we can offer him anything that Col couldn't, I wouldn't trade TJ for him and I doubt Army would make a hard push for him anyway

He'd be a great fit thou

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02-13-2013, 05:46 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
-overrated or not, nobody says he isn't good

-yeah he outproduced a low-scoring, defensive orientated team that saw its best 3 offensive weapons out for a significant time.
That's still good, very good. But special? Not so much.

-usually the 2 things you negotiate for a new deal are how long and how much. So let's say he really isn't looking for the big bucks the term is the logical issue here and he won't get a long term deal from Army. No one did. Maybe Petro will but is a guy I would consider as "something special"

Bottom line is that I don't think we can offer him anything that Col couldn't, I wouldn't trade TJ for him and I doubt Army would make a hard push for him anyway

He'd be a great fit thou
I think given his salary demands, we should get a bit more. Perhaps Oshie, Russell, and D'Agostini for ROR and a top d prospect ready or close. He would give us a legitimate #2+ center. Deal would offset salary. Give Avs some much needed offense up front and on the back line. This is by no means perfect, but some sort of combo of players.

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02-13-2013, 05:52 AM
  #833
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O'Reilly is getting overrated by many on the trade boards. He is young, he does have a very good defensive game, but he has only shown a good offensive game during last season. Those acting like giving him a 5 year/$20m-$22.5m contract isn't a big deal are overrating him. That contract is a bigger risk than the average contract. As I've said before, Berglund came into the League as a 20 year old and put up 21-26-47 and lead the team in +/-.

Berglund+ for O'Reilly? Sideways move at best, we could very well win the trade down the road, but that can't be the objective here. We are trying to solidify our centres now, bringing in a rusty centre with the future in mind and the hope it shakes things up in a positive way is a very risky move.

Oshie for O'Reilly? Not a chance. Oshie fits our system perfectly and is signed to a good contract for the next 4 seasons. He has more value than O'Reilly at this point.

If Schwartz & D'Agostini would get it done, then I think we pull the trigger. The salary implications for this season aren't too much of an issue, but moves would need to be made in the summer to accomodate the salary.

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02-13-2013, 06:35 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
O'Reilly is getting overrated by many on the trade boards. He is young, he does have a very good defensive game, but he has only shown a good offensive game during last season. Those acting like giving him a 5 year/$20m-$22.5m contract isn't a big deal are overrating him. That contract is a bigger risk than the average contract. As I've said before, Berglund came into the League as a 20 year old and put up 21-26-47 and lead the team in +/-.

Berglund+ for O'Reilly? Sideways move at best, we could very well win the trade down the road, but that can't be the objective here. We are trying to solidify our centres now, bringing in a rusty centre with the future in mind and the hope it shakes things up in a positive way is a very risky move.

Oshie for O'Reilly? Not a chance. Oshie fits our system perfectly and is signed to a good contract for the next 4 seasons. He has more value than O'Reilly at this point.

If Schwartz & D'Agostini would get it done, then I think we pull the trigger. The salary implications for this season aren't too much of an issue, but moves would need to be made in the summer to accomodate the salary.
good post, I agree with everything but again, we can't offer what he wants. If he wants too much, well, we don't have much money. And if he wants years, well, Army won't give players like him more than a 3yr contract

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02-13-2013, 07:02 AM
  #835
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That does happen on this site and with the hardcore fans. I'm just as guilty on certain players. The more hardcore fans will some times look at players too hard and players who play a complete game get overrated because of that.

When looking at O'Reilly, it should be pretty simple. He will most likely be like Berglund, the only question will he be more consistent.

Can O'Reilly get his defense into the Selke category? Yes, but does that really matter for us? I'd say no, because we have Backes and when we are playing great, it is because all 5 skaters are contributing defensively. We won't rely on an individual's great defensive play.

Can O'Reilly become a consistent 60+ point scorer? Yes, but I think this is less likely. Granted this is just an opinion, but if Colorado management believed that this was likely, he would have been signed long ago and they wouldn't have tried so hard to sign him cheaper.

A 45-55 point center who plays good defense is not worth what he is asking, and that is most likely what he will be.

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02-13-2013, 07:06 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
good post, I agree with everything but again, we can't offer what he wants. If he wants too much, well, we don't have much money. And if he wants years, well, Army won't give players like him more than a 3yr contract
I agree that it is going to be a significant issue, but I wouldn't completely rule it out. It isn't easy to get quality centres in this League, and if 5 years/$20m got the deal done, then I think Armstrong would seriously consider it.

The biggest stumbling block is the message it would send to our RFA's, it would be tough to convince Shattenkirk to sign a bridge deal. Berglund will likely want to same money as O'Reilly in the summer.

Also, if we are seriously looking at Jori Lehterä for next season, then I suspect we'll be targeting something more short term than ROR.

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02-13-2013, 07:33 AM
  #837
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If and hopefully when this skid ends, do you guys think the trade talks that Army is supposedly having will stop or do you think Army will try to attempt this recent stretch from happening again with a move?

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02-13-2013, 08:02 AM
  #838
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If and hopefully when this skid ends, do you guys think the trade talks that Army is supposedly having will stop or do you think Army will try to attempt this recent stretch from happening again with a move?
Winning or losing, I think he is always trying to do something with at least one other team.

He is somewhat handcuffed by the fact our team needs are so narrow, are for players that would be in high demand (top 4 LHD & top 6 C) and the salary constraints going forward. Maybe we pick up a fourth liner, but that isn't a difference maker really. If that is the idea, give Porter a shot.

I think getting deals worked out with Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk and Berglund would probably have as big an impact as any minor trade would to the team. All long term if possible. It also would give a clearer picture of what we can do in the trade market going forward.

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02-14-2013, 05:46 AM
  #839
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I agree that it is going to be a significant issue, but I wouldn't completely rule it out. It isn't easy to get quality centres in this League, and if 5 years/$20m got the deal done, then I think Armstrong would seriously consider it.

The biggest stumbling block is the message it would send to our RFA's, it would be tough to convince Shattenkirk to sign a bridge deal. Berglund will likely want to same money as O'Reilly in the summer.

Also, if we are seriously looking at Jori Lehterä for next season, then I suspect we'll be targeting something more short term than ROR.
I agree. If we have assets to acquire a legitimate 2-way center, then we have to look at those possibilities. If Schwartz and D'Agostini get it done, then sure I'm interested. My point on adding in the d-man is that they have several that are on the verge and top 4+ candidates, but not quite there. They are also left-handed shots. As far as being a 55 point man, Oshie has yet to eclipsed that mark with many weapons around him. His salary is more favorable than ROR's demands. I see adding another roster player or two could swipe you one of their top defensive prospects (their strength) with some offensive upside. Then, you address two needs. If ROR will agree in the 5yr/18-20 milion range, then I don't think you have a bad deal. If he is demanding 5yr/25 million, I wouldn't go for it. The Blues have some tough decisions to make regarding who they wish to build their team around. I think you start being strong up the middle and backline. You have some wing depth in your system.

I will be the first to admit I overvalue a complete game two way center. I watched Detroit win many Stanley cups that way.

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02-14-2013, 07:56 AM
  #840
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O'Reilly is too risky, considering his salary demands and our probable RFA signing costs; let someone out East have him.

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02-14-2013, 10:54 AM
  #841
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I would love to have Chris Neil. Won't happen, but someone with similar grit would be nice.

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02-14-2013, 11:11 AM
  #842
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I'm a big O'Reilly fan but i don't like the message it sends to the other guys if we traded for him and gave him 4+ million a year.

I'd like to see Alex Pietrangelo get locked up before long.

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02-14-2013, 11:12 AM
  #843
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I would love to have Chris Neil. Won't happen, but someone with similar grit would be nice.
We wouldn't have any room for him on our roster.

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02-14-2013, 11:15 AM
  #844
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I'm a big O'Reilly fan but i don't like the message it sends to the other guys if we traded for him and gave him 4+ million a year.

I'd like to see Alex Pietrangelo get locked up before long.
I agree and the thing is Armstrong does not give the type of contract O'Reilly seems to be looking for after just one good season. He just isn't a fit in terms of our salary structure. Look at the deals Oshie, Perron, Berglund, EJ, Stewart ect signed.

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02-14-2013, 11:41 AM
  #845
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What is the general preference on how we should deal with the Shattenkirk contract? A bridge deal is more likely, does anyone have a preference of giving him the same term (not money) as Pietrangelo?

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02-14-2013, 11:47 AM
  #846
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What is the general preference on how we should deal with the Shattenkirk contract? A bridge deal is more likely, does anyone have a preference of giving him the same term (not money) as Pietrangelo?
I would say yes or pretty darn close. As it is right now, those two are our best players on the ice. Pietro has been erratic, but we live and die by those two right now. You can build around them. Both are all stars in my book and future Norris candidates.

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02-14-2013, 12:16 PM
  #847
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I'm of the opinion that Perron may be our most tradeable commodity to obtain a #2 center. He does have some sniper ability and may just need the right center to get him the puck. Who may be his best suitor?

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02-14-2013, 12:31 PM
  #848
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What is the general preference on how we should deal with the Shattenkirk contract? A bridge deal is more likely, does anyone have a preference of giving him the same term (not money) as Pietrangelo?
I don't feel there's anyway Shattenkirk is getting a "bridge" deal. If by bridge, you mean a shorter, 2 or 3 term length contract, before a mega-contract when he's 26 or 27.

Shatty is a pretty accomplished player for a young guy and is already one of the best offensive defenseman in the league..and a right hand shot to boot. After playing three years of college he's already 24 after his entry level expires and he'll be entering his prime years soon.

Take John Carlson for instance.

He was 23 when he signed a 6 year, $23.8 million ($3.96 cap hit) contract before the lockout.

Prior to this season, he accrued 186 GP, 17G, 58A, 75 PTS and 82 PIM with 30 Playoff GP.

If we're conservative and Shatty falls off his point-per-game pace slightly and finishes the season with, 46 GP, 5G, 32A, and 37 Pts his career totals would be:

201 GP, 23G, 112A, 123 Pts with probably at least 15 playoff GP under his belt.

So Carlson got almost $4 mil (less cap hit with longer term) and Shatty destroys him statistically on the offensive side of the puck and he's getting better defensively. Carlson was a top pairing guy but offensively and on the PP he's not in Shatty's league and KS continues to get more minutes and will only get better in his own zone.

I could see Shattenkirk's camp asking for a 5 or 6 year contract paying him $5-5.5 mil annually.

The Blues are dead last in payroll as we speak according to CapGeek for this very reason. They know they are due to shell out some big money in the very near future.

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02-14-2013, 12:55 PM
  #849
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I'd try to sign Petro to the max length deal at 6.5-7 per.

I'd try to sign Shatty to a 5-6 year deal at ~5.25 per

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02-14-2013, 01:21 PM
  #850
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I don't feel there's anyway Shattenkirk is getting a "bridge" deal. If by bridge, you mean a shorter, 2 or 3 term length contract, before a mega-contract when he's 26 or 27.

Shatty is a pretty accomplished player for a young guy and is already one of the best offensive defenseman in the league..and a right hand shot to boot. After playing three years of college he's already 24 after his entry level expires and he'll be entering his prime years soon.

Take John Carlson for instance.

He was 23 when he signed a 6 year, $23.8 million ($3.96 cap hit) contract before the lockout.

Prior to this season, he accrued 186 GP, 17G, 58A, 75 PTS and 82 PIM with 30 Playoff GP.

If we're conservative and Shatty falls off his point-per-game pace slightly and finishes the season with, 46 GP, 5G, 32A, and 37 Pts his career totals would be:

201 GP, 23G, 112A, 123 Pts with probably at least 15 playoff GP under his belt.

So Carlson got almost $4 mil (less cap hit with longer term) and Shatty destroys him statistically on the offensive side of the puck and he's getting better defensively. Carlson was a top pairing guy but offensively and on the PP he's not in Shatty's league and KS continues to get more minutes and will only get better in his own zone.

I could see Shattenkirk's camp asking for a 5 or 6 year contract paying him $5-5.5 mil annually.

The Blues are dead last in payroll as we speak according to CapGeek for this very reason. They know they are due to shell out some big money in the very near future.
In terms of a bridge contract, we could only offer him 2 years, any longer takes him into UFA. Our history is to give out bridge deals, it would also somewhat keep the cost down in the short term.

I want to have both signed to 8 year deals asap. If Shattenkirk is going to be looking for $5m+ long term, then things could become problematic for us.

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