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Summer 2012 Free Agency - Part X: May the Shea Be With Us

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:36 PM
  #726
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
This exactly. And there were enough people who advocated that before mid-Wednesday too.

I also want Doan on a short term deal. Saying that now, before this creates tension once Semin inevitably signed with another team.
I'd take Doan too. Short term I could see the advantage of either. I'd personally pick Semin if the deal was right though.

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07-06-2012, 09:37 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
He is just as bad as those two. If we can bring him in to be a a offensive talent fine but once again people need to temper their expectations because he is very passive in his own zone.
agree to disagree I guess.

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07-06-2012, 09:38 PM
  #728
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I'm one of the very few that would offer semin 4 yrs 24 mil with no no movement clause. Take the chance on him. If he falters, send him to the minors. Yeah, you still pay him, but he's off the cap.

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07-06-2012, 09:39 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I'd take Doan too. Short term I could see the advantage of either. I'd personally pick Semin if the deal was right though.
I think Doan is another player most would bring in. He isn't discussed that much because it seems he's staying out west somewhere close to famiy.

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07-06-2012, 09:40 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Yeah but will he accept something like that? We know with Malone & Gonchar that Shero puts a limit on the deals & doesn't budge.
And that's fine. If he's not willing to sign a one or two-year deal then we don't sign him. Shero will find another way to get a top-6 winger.

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:41 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by PensFan68 View Post
I think Doan is another player most would bring in. He isn't discussed that much because it seems he's staying out west somewhere close to famiy.
I think you're right. If it was me though, other than LA I don't see the point. LA and the Ducks are about 350 miles from Phoenix. I expect Phoenix or LA honestly. After that though, the next closest teams are 800 and 1000 miles away in Colorado and Dallas. At that point whats the difference in a 2 and 3 hour flight compared to actually going to a competitive team?

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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
And that's fine. If he's not willing to sign a one or two-year deal then we don't sign him. Shero will find another way to get a top-6 winger.
Indeed. Nobody wants to sell out to get him.

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07-06-2012, 09:42 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
agree to disagree I guess.

I lived in the Caps viewing area for 75% of the season. I saw him night in & out during the regular season & of course most of us saw the playoffs. During the regular season he back checked when felt like it & was a non factor along the boards. I just can't pick out one or two good plays he made when he decided to give it his all & ignore the majority of the time when he didn't give a crap.

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07-06-2012, 09:43 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I lived in the Caps viewing area for 75% of the season. I saw him night in & out during the regular season & of course most of us saw the playoffs. During the regular season he back checked when felt like it & was a non factor along the boards. I just can't pick out one or two good plays he made when he decided to give it his all & ignore the majority of the time when he didn't give a crap.
That's wonderful. I disagree. His boardwork is obviously his weakness defensively. His stick work is better than Neal or Kunitz though. He's better at forcing a turnover and getting the puck up ice. He also helps his team control the puck very well because he's a better pass, skater and stickhandler. Kunitz and Neal are good at that too. The main way all three stop other teams from scoring is controlling the puck. But I'm pretty sure it was you that has said that puck possession doesn't help a team defensively.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 07-06-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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07-06-2012, 09:47 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by PensFan68 View Post
I'm one of the very few that would offer semin 4 yrs 24 mil with no no movement clause. Take the chance on him. If he falters, send him to the minors. Yeah, you still pay him, but he's off the cap.
Except that a no movement clause means you can't send him to the minors. Hence the no movement part.

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Old
07-06-2012, 09:47 PM
  #735
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Except that a no movement clause means you can't send him to the minors. Hence the no movement part.
double negative. With no no movement clause.

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07-06-2012, 09:48 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Except that a no movement clause means you can't send him to the minors. Hence the no movement part.
To be fair, he said "no no movement clause." Not the most succinct way of putting it, but you see what he meant.

Even still, he hasn't earned a 4-year deal from a perennial contender from where I sit.

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07-06-2012, 09:49 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
To be fair, he said "no no movement clause." Not the most succinct way of putting it, but you see what he meant.

Even still, he hasn't earned a 4-year deal from a perennial contender from where I sit.
not at 6 mil. I'd give him 4 years for 5 or below, but he'd be stupid to do that instead of a short term high dollar deal.

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07-06-2012, 09:49 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Depends. He is currently the best option on the team. Right now he's our 3rd best wing so even with one more guy, he should be with Sid. And depending who we would add, I could see us being better off upgrading the D instead of trying to do better than Dupuis. Though if we upgrade the D, I expect Martin gets moved out so it won't really cost much.

And Kennedy is the odd man out. Either bumped to the 4th or traded if we need the cap space. If it was up to me we'd try to sign Semin and Mueller and dump TK. Mueller and Dupuis could compete for the spot on Sid's wing and the other could be on the 3rd line. If Mueller really struggles (he has barely played for what, 2 years?) I think Tangradi or Jeffrey can fill that 3rd line spot and the other can fill the 4th line spot until we can find a replacement. The upside of Mueller is worth that risk over TK imo.

Semin - Crosby - Mueller/Dupuis
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Mueller/Dupuis
Tangradi - Vitale - Glass
Jeffrey
I don't know much about Mueller, so I couldn't compare him to Dupuis, but it could work. I agree that TK is the odd man out if the team adds 2 forwards, and if they are intended to be wingers for Sid, then Dupuis likely does slot into the 3rd line wing. It would surprise me if the Pens did trade Martin, I think the team likes him far more than the fans do. Thats not to say that they won't add defense, I just don't see Martin going out. One thing that could come into play is how ready the team feels its defense prospects are. I think that there could be as many as 12 defensemen internally looking to be on the NHL Penguins. Orpik, Letang, Martin, Engelland, Niskanen, and Lovejoy are already in the NHL full-time, and chances are someone in that group is going out, probably Lovejoy, maybe Martin. Strait and Bortuzzo are available to be claimed on waivers if sent to WBS and should get strong consideration or possibly traded so they aren't potentially lost for nothing. Despres, Morrow, Dumoulin, and maybe Harrington could also push for the NHL team, but likely all will require more seasoning before making the NHL. On defense, it comes down to wether there is some great improvement to be had from outside, because right now the team has a glut of defense to choose from internally.

Anyhow, it sounds like we mostly agree on how Dupuis will be used, just that we disagree on the likelyhood of the possibilities


Last edited by RR1107: 07-06-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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Old
07-06-2012, 09:52 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by RR1107 View Post
I don't know much about Mueller, so I couldn't compare him to Dupuis, but it could work. I agree that TK is the odd man out if the team adds 2 forwards, and if they are intended to be wingers for Sid, then Dupuis likely does slot into the 3rd line wing. It would surprise me if the Pens did trade Martin, I think the team likes him far more than the fans do. Thats not to say that they won't add defense, I just don't see Martin going out. One thing that could come into play is how ready the team feels its defense prospects are. I think that there could be as many as 12 defensemen internally looking to be on the NHL Penguins. Orpik, Letang, Martin, Engelland, Niskanen, and Lovejoy are already in the NHL full-time, and chances are someone in that group is going out, probably Lovejoy, maybe Martin. Strait and Bortuzzo are available to be claimed on waivers if sent to WBS and should get strong consideration or possibly traded so they aren't potentially lost for nothing. Despres, Morrow, Dumoulin, and maybe Harrington could also push for the NHL team, but likely all will require more seasoning before making the NHL.

Anyhow, it sounds like we mostly agree on how Dupuis will be used, just that we disagree on the likelyhood of the possibilities
I actually agree. I think there's a very good chance Dupuis starts on Sid's wing I just think in an ideal scenario he would at least have someone here to challenge for the spot.

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07-06-2012, 09:58 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
double negative. With no no movement clause.
totally didn't see that haha.

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07-06-2012, 10:13 PM
  #741
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DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Matt Niskanen ($2.300m)
Brian Strait ($0.600m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)

Anyone else see Shero thinking of going with this group of D men? It just looks weak, and could be better, yet all we want is a winger... I can't wait to see what Shero comes up with. Whatever it is, I think its safe to say all his moves come at once. Like Satan and Feds signing the same time, I think he will target who he wants, and the move(s) will all come at the same time.

I know most people think this:

Martin Letang
Orpik Nisky
Despres Engelland
Strait

But i still think it's a weak D group... no??

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07-06-2012, 10:19 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Giant Yankee Pens View Post
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Matt Niskanen ($2.300m)
Brian Strait ($0.600m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)

Anyone else see Shero thinking of going with this group of D men? It just looks weak, and could be better, yet all we want is a winger... I can't wait to see what Shero comes up with. Whatever it is, I think its safe to say all his moves come at once. Like Satan and Feds signing the same time, I think he will target who he wants, and the move(s) will all come at the same time.

I know most people think this:

Martin Letang
Orpik Nisky
Despres Engelland
Strait

But i still think it's a weak D group... no??
It's weak if you believe Orpik and Martin are as bad as they were last year. It's not great, but I see it as an above average defense.

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07-06-2012, 10:21 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
It's weak if you believe Orpik and Martin are as bad as they were last year.
So, assuming they rebound (and I think you have to, particularly Brooks), are you comfortable with that D for the playoffs? and do you go with Strait/Bort or Despres?

I think you'd have to assume a deadline pick up imo

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07-06-2012, 10:23 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Giant Yankee Pens View Post
So, assuming they rebound (and I think you have to, particularly Brooks), are you comfortable with that D for the playoffs? and do you go with Strait/Bort or Despres?

I think you'd have to assume a deadline pick up imo
Despres. And ya, there's a good chance we'd want a deadline pickup but it depends how the young guys play. I have pretty high expectations of Despres. I see him on the 2nd pair come playoffs. Even if we bring in a deadline guy, I doubt its to take his spot.

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07-06-2012, 10:25 PM
  #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Yankee Pens View Post
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Matt Niskanen ($2.300m)
Brian Strait ($0.600m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)

Anyone else see Shero thinking of going with this group of D men? It just looks weak, and could be better, yet all we want is a winger... I can't wait to see what Shero comes up with. Whatever it is, I think its safe to say all his moves come at once. Like Satan and Feds signing the same time, I think he will target who he wants, and the move(s) will all come at the same time.

I know most people think this:

Martin Letang
Orpik Nisky
Despres Engelland
Strait

But i still think it's a weak D group... no??

I am very high on Joe Morrow, and I think he has a legitimate chance at making the NHL this season. He will have to have a monster camp, and literally force his way in, but he just may, and it is more likely if the Pens go into camp without adding any defense from outside. It wouldn't surprise me at all if both Despres and Morrow are on the roster and playing regular minutes this season, but it also wouldn't surprise me if Morrow makes the team and Despres gets another year in the AHL with some spot duty in the NHL on call-ups.

For Fun:

Orpik-Letang
Martin-Morrow
Niskanen-Despres
Engelland

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07-06-2012, 10:28 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Despres. And ya, there's a good chance we'd want a deadline pickup but it depends how the young guys play. I have pretty high expectations of Despres. I see him on the 2nd pair come playoffs. Even if we bring in a deadline guy, I doubt its to take his spot.
I hope DB does too... they better not send him down just cause he doesn't need to pass through waivers... I think Niskanen intrigues me the most this yr... if he can pan out as a #4 I think that'd be a huge boost for the team. Deff a question going into next year

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07-06-2012, 10:28 PM
  #747
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Sign Semin and Mueller. Roll These lines :

Mueller Sid Neal
Kunitz Malkin Semin
Cooke Sutter Dupuis
Glass Vitale Tangradi/Jeffery
Jeffery/Tangradi Adams

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:34 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Despres. And ya, there's a good chance we'd want a deadline pickup but it depends how the young guys play. I have pretty high expectations of Despres. I see him on the 2nd pair come playoffs. Even if we bring in a deadline guy, I doubt its to take his spot.
XXX-Letang
Orpik-Martin/Niskanen
Despres-Engelland

I'd like to see us devote our assets to finding an upgrade for Tanger if we can fill our needs on wing in free agency. See which of Martin/Niskanen is a better trade piece come deadline.

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Old
07-06-2012, 10:36 PM
  #749
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
XXX-Letang
Orpik-Martin/Niskanen
Despres-Engelland

I'd like to see us devote our assets to finding an upgrade for Tanger if we can fill our needs on wing in free agency. See which of Martin/Niskanen is a better trade piece come deadline.
ya if we make a deadline move to improve the D, I expect one of those two are headed out because we'll hopefully need the room assuming we have signed some forwards

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07-06-2012, 10:36 PM
  #750
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He is just as bad as those two. If we can bring him in to be a a offensive talent fine but once again people need to temper their expectations because he is very passive in his own zone.
That's the only reason we would be bringing him in. We're not bringing him in to be a strong two way player. I don't even know what you're arguing here.

He'd be brought in to score goals, not to play great d or anything else.

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