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Rick Nash - This Is The Trade That Doesn't End, Yes It Goes On And On My Friend

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:02 PM
  #276
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
Alright. Well I guess we should the papers in.

Columbus and Rangers fans agreeing on a trade? No ****ing way.
Some of us have agreed on a few iterations of deals!

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:02 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
You want to go tit for tat? Fine by me.

I figured that when mentioning a guy like Couture or Skinner, that that context would be implied there since that was the original subject matter.

The word police has been called in, be on guard, everyone.
More moving target. "You knew what I meant."

Here's the problem again. You're taking issue with CBJ posters using blanket statements like third-rate prospects - we've been at this so long I can see why a CBJ poster would simplify their statement rather than quantify every single player that gets mentioned. "Gotten tired of it" as you said. Yet now I'm "the word police."


Quote:
There's a select few that continue to do so and if they want to continue with it, I'll continue calling them out for it while debunking their points. They're the ones complaining about the Ranger fans offering peanuts, which almost no one is. But our prospects and Dubinsky are crap, right?
I don't know what to tell you. For every CBJ troll saying what you claim, there's a NYR troll saying the exact opposite. And everyone's calling each other trolls.

Quote:
Cash for Nash has "caved to every NYR fan offer"? When? Is this before or after bashing the prospects that have been offered? Great example of "caving in".
After.

Quote:
Point is... You don't see guys the stature of (since I have to watch every word I say) Couture or Skinner get traded for Nash. Younger players who equal an older player's production at about 25% of the cost that said player.
Snarky.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:03 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
That is a good deal.

I still see the BJ's finishing in last place with Dubinsky and Stepan, but hey, they did that with Nash?

How does it compare to:

Columbus

Faulk
Jokinen
Dalpe
1st

for

Nash
Well:

Dubinsky > Jokinen (Down year aside, he brings far more to the table)
Stepan >> Faulk
Thomas < Dalpe
1st ? 1st

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:05 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Well:

Dubinsky > Jokinen (Down year aside, he brings far more to the table)
Stepan >> Faulk
Thomas < Dalpe
1st ? 1st
Dubinsky < Jokinen
Stepan > Faulk
Thomas </> Dalphe
Rangers 1st < Carolina's 1st

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:08 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 View Post
Yeah I don't understand that. That's why I've offered packages including Hagelin and Del Zotto from time to time. But hey they're not valueable to the team or nothing...
You have to look at the need of the other team. Hagelin isn't necessarily a need for them. Del Zotto sure isn't. Stepan isn't necessarily expandable, but is easier to give up then McDonagh, Kreider, ect. It'd hurt to lose Stepan but it won't kill us. Miller I think can be a better player in a couple of seasons. This is all dependent on if you think Miller is the real deal.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:08 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I would even do MSC AND Fogarty/Yogan instead of Thomas, probably. Howson might take that, too, since he gets another nice prospect for his pool.
Nice BA pic... I think Stepan, Dubinsky, Thomas, 1st for Nash really just makes the most sense. I can see Columbus trying to sweeten the pot to either get Miller(Ohio guy), or get someone like Yogan thrown in in addition to Thomas. At the end of the day though, Stepan, Dubinsky, Thomas and a 1st just seems like the point where the sides could both walk away and feel pretty good.

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07-06-2012, 02:08 PM
  #282
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I see nothing about JJ that would make me take him over Dubi. Dubinsky does far more on the ice. An Stepan is quite a bit better than Faulk (who is a nice player).

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:10 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachwithoutahead View Post
Nice BA pic... I think Stepan, Dubinsky, Thomas, 1st for Nash really just makes the most sense. I can see Columbus trying to sweeten the pot to either get Miller(Ohio guy), or get someone like Yogan thrown in in addition to Thomas. At the end of the day though, Stepan, Dubinsky, Thomas and a 1st just seems like the point where the sides could both walk away and feel pretty good.
Thanks. Awesome band. Listening to them now at work actually.

Let's call our GMs. If Howson asks for more, please stab him. :p

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:11 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Well:

Dubinsky > Jokinen (Down year aside, he brings far more to the table)
Stepan >> Faulk
Thomas < Dalpe
1st ? 1st
I think you could argue Jokinen = Dubinsky. But I still think the Rangers offer is stronger as Stepan is a better piece than Faulk.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:13 PM
  #285
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And again, I don't get why Rangers fans are more willing to trade Stepan than Kreider. Stepan has actually proven something at the NHL level - Kreider had eight points in 20 playoff games after playing about half the amount of games that an NHL player is expected to play. I'd rather keep the young, proven center than the young, mostly unproven winger.

And again, if there is anyway to add Hagelin or Anisimov in the place of Kreider/Stepan, I would do that in a heartbeat.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:14 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
I think you could argue Jokinen = Dubinsky. But I still think the Rangers offer is stronger as Stepan is a better piece than Faulk.
Dubis play away from the puck counts for a lot. Even with his down year.

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07-06-2012, 02:15 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoctorLies View Post
And again, I don't get why Rangers fans are more willing to trade Stepan than Kreider. Stepan has actually proven something at the NHL level - Kreider had eight points in 20 playoff games after playing about half the amount of games that an NHL player is expected to play. I'd rather keep the young, proven center than the young, mostly unproven winger.

And again, if there is anyway to add Hagelin or Anisimov in the place of Kreider/Stepan, I would do that in a heartbeat.
I think you take the chance that Kreider becomes that special player that Stepan won't be.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:18 PM
  #288
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Trading Stepan is a lateral move for this franchise unless it's in a package for a #1 guy like Getzlaf, Spezza, etc.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:18 PM
  #289
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As a ranger fan, How about we dont make the trade. I think Id rather keep these players than trade them for Nash. Honestly, the thought of this trade makes me shudder. Gordie Clark has been great at the Draft. We sucked for so long before the lockout, We are finally doing it right with the drafting and developing. Lets keep our guys and see who is available in the FA market next year.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:20 PM
  #290
TheDoctorLies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I think you take the chance that Kreider becomes that special player that Stepan won't be.
But you're getting a guy who, right now, is significantly better than Kreider and most likely will remain the better player through the end of his contract back in the trade. It's one thing to assume Nash will return to 35+ goal 65+ point form on the Rangers - he's had much better seasons on much worse teams. The same goes for Stepan, he just put up 51 points as a 22 year old second line center, there's no reason to believe he won't continue to produce at that level or better.

It's another thing entirely to assume that Kreider will become an elite player down the line because he had a few good games in the playoffs. I'll take the center over the wing every single time.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:21 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoctorLies View Post
And again, I don't get why Rangers fans are more willing to trade Stepan than Kreider. Stepan has actually proven something at the NHL level - Kreider had eight points in 20 playoff games after playing about half the amount of games that an NHL player is expected to play. I'd rather keep the young, proven center than the young, mostly unproven winger.

And again, if there is anyway to add Hagelin or Anisimov in the place of Kreider/Stepan, I would do that in a heartbeat.
I wouldn't want to trade any of those players but if I was forced I'd give up Kreider. Stepan has proven more although I think Kreider will be a 30+30 scorer at least in his prime.

Stepan is already putting up +50 points, he's a proven player. And if we lose Stepan we have 1 top 6 C.

If we lose Kreider in a trade for Nash we still have Gaborik, Nash, Callahan and Hagelin on our top 6 wings. Way better than not having two top 6 C's.

With that said I do not want to trade any of those players for Nash.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:24 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Dubis play away from the puck counts for a lot. Even with his down year.
But it's not like JJ has no clue what to due away from the puck. In fact, I would say that the only difference between the two is that Dubinksy is by far more physical while JJ puts up more points.

I would say it's equal, though Stepan > Faulk.

Of course, reports are that the Rangers are not willing to give up Stepan (and I personally don't know why- if you want a player like Nash, you have to give up something that hurts).

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:25 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
It's just as bad as the ridiculous devaluing Columbus fans are trying to push about our prospects.

Both sides are kind of being ridiculous about this.
Alright....But the "green light" is given by Ranger fans who pretty much devalue their own prospects by including the same ones in every deal. But when someone like Dylan McIllrath is mentioned he's "untouchable" in a deal for Nash. Cmon of course the logical conclusion is the guys that are being included would be lesser junk bonds.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:25 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by TheDoctorLies View Post
But you're getting a guy who, right now, is significantly better than Kreider and most likely will remain the better player through the end of his contract back in the trade. It's one thing to assume Nash will return to 35+ goal 65+ point form on the Rangers - he's had much better seasons on much worse teams. The same goes for Stepan, he just put up 51 points as a 22 year old second line center, there's no reason to believe he won't continue to produce at that level or better.

It's another thing entirely to assume that Kreider will become an elite player down the line because he had a few good games in the playoffs. I'll take the center over the wing every single time.
Great post, me too.

But if Kreider/Stepan is what it takes I don't want Nash. I know Nash is better but I'm thinking long term here. There's no guarentee that Miller will be a 2nd line C. He might be a very good 3rd C. With Stepan you know that he will at least be a 2nd line C in his prime.


Centers are harder to replace than wingers. If Kreider is traded we still got Nash, Gaborik, Hagelin and Callahan.

If Nash isn't moved here we still got:


Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Stepan - Callahan.

Not too bad IMO.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:26 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
As a ranger fan, How about we dont make the trade. I think Id rather keep these players than trade them for Nash. Honestly, the thought of this trade makes me shudder. Gordie Clark has been great at the Draft. We sucked for so long before the lockout, We are finally doing it right with the drafting and developing. Lets keep our guys and see who is available in the FA market next year.
Just like this year? What if the Free Agency next year is even worse?

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:28 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Alright....But the "green light" is given by Ranger fans who pretty much devalue their own prospects by including the same ones in every deal. But when someone like Dylan McIllrath is mentioned he's "untouchable" in a deal for Nash. Cmon of course the logical conclusion is the guys that are being included would be lesser junk bonds.
¨Wow... I never said he was untouchable. I said I rather keep him. Never said ''No way bro! You're never getting him, NEVER!''


Why you want McIlrath you still haven't answered that question. After all you guys are stacked on D and you got alot of good D prospects coming up. So why do you feel the urge of aquiring McIlrath who'll be a physical 2nd pairing d-man if (and it's quite the big if) he develops.?

Answer that.

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07-06-2012, 02:31 PM
  #297
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I don't understand why people are throwing Stepan in trades. It's already been said he, McDonagh and Kreider are off the table. You try and make a deal with the rest of the players. That's pretty much it. Howson will eventually either walk away from dealing Nash with his crazy high demand or cave in because Nash wants to GTFO and will take the best offer at some point.

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07-06-2012, 02:33 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Can everyone shut up and talk about my offer?

Dubi, Stepan, Thomas/St. Croix/etc., 1st in 2013.

For

Nash

In my opinion this makes the Rangers a Worse team not better. We become a one line team with no depth. Any trade made for Nash should make us better now, and Columbus better in the future, but a worse team next year. Thats what rebuilding, phase 1 whipe the slate clean and start over.

This gets you no where in the NHL, just ask......... well Columbus.

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07-06-2012, 02:44 PM
  #299
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The main thought in aquiring Nash is to contend for the cup and this is the time. We got Richards, Stepan, Callahan, Gaborik etc. Richards isn't getting any younger so trading Stepan would be stupid. Gaborik is in his prime and who knows if he'll get re-signed or not in the future. If we trade for Nash it's because we have a real good team, and we need those +30 goals from him. By trading Stepan and moving up Anisimov we get worse.

Ask yourself this: when was the last time a team without two top 6 C won the cup?



In the last 5 years these teams have won it:


2012: Kings. Kopitar + Richards
2011: Boston. Krejci + Bergeron
2010: Chicago: the only team without two top 6 C's.
2009: Penguins: Crosby+Malkin
2008: Detroit: Datsyuk + Zetterberg.


See a red line in there some where?

Teams with a well balanced top 6 lines consisting of two top 6 C's usually win.

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07-06-2012, 02:44 PM
  #300
Burlington Bomb 26
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In my opinion this makes the Rangers a Worse team not better. We become a one line team with no depth. Any trade made for Nash should make us better now, and Columbus better in the future, but a worse team next year. Thats what rebuilding, phase 1 whipe the slate clean and start over.

This gets you no where in the NHL, just ask......... well Columbus.
Say Rangers sign Nash too, their lineup will look like this

Nash-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Anisimov-Doan
Hagelin-Boyle-Callahan
Pyatt-Rupp-Asham

If Doan can't be signed, Callahan goes to 2nd line, and they sign someone like Peter Mueller, Andrei Kostitsyn, or someone else.

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