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Rick Nash - This Is The Trade That Doesn't End, Yes It Goes On And On My Friend

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:36 AM
  #101
NYRKING30
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
From a CBJ fan's perspective, not much. Depends on if Ryan would be happy playing here or not. If so, the arguable drop in production between Nash and Ryan would be offset by the fact that Ryan would tolerate being in Columbus (as well as his age).

I don't think Anaheim is on Nash's list though and I don't think Ryan would really be itching to come to Columbus.


Close, but this package has some more pieces (such as Hagelin). Personally I would want to swap out Hagelin and Miller for Stepan or Kreider.
Yeah you and Howson lol. If Howson asks for Hagelin he will be able to get him. A deal like that was one most of us wanted all along. Not Ottawa's offer but I think a fair one that could turn out very good for Columbus.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:38 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by NYRKING30 View Post
Yeah you and Howson lol. If Howson asks for Hagelin he will be able to get him. A deal like that was one most of us wanted all along. Not Ottawa's offer but I think a fair one that could turn out very good for Columbus.
The problem is that Howson badly needs to get back a player that is a:
1. Forward
2. Young
3. Promising
4. Able to contribute this coming season.

Dubinsky isn't enough of that. Hence why he is aiming for Skinner / Couture / Kreider types.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:41 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Well....there are a million different reports but:

The so called "monster package" offered was like Dub+3 prospects (not named Kreider) and a 1st. Only comparable in quantity really. Pretty mild.
It's monster because of quantity like you say, regardless a 5 for 1 is monster but I think you guys could be very pleased how a trade like that could turn out for you. Sather would probably offer that again on a last ditch attempt as I think he wants something similar to his trade deadline offer but now 1 piece at least less but Howson won't budge and in the end Sather will as long as he gets to keep who he wanted to originally. As we can all see from the number of threads to the media wars to everybody involved, get this over with already whether it be the Rangers or somebody else.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:43 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
The problem is that Howson badly needs to get back a player that is a:
1. Forward
2. Young
3. Promising
4. Able to contribute this coming season.

Dubinsky isn't enough of that. Hence why he is aiming for Skinner / Couture / Kreider types.
Very understandable as well, my response has been said already by myself and others in other threads as well. We are all beating a dead horse lol.

Dubinsky,Hagelin,Miller/Thomas,Erixon/Mcilrath, plus a 2013 1st is somewhere along the lines acceptable to CBJ fans?

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:44 AM
  #105
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Okay, Howson really wants Couture, how's this:


Logan Couture
2013 SJS 1st


Rick Nash
Derek Brassard

CBJ gets an amazing young future #1 center and a 1st, Sharks get an elite winger in Nash and Brassard helps our awful future.

Mostly a for ***** and giggles offer, really want something to happen.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:45 AM
  #106
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I really wish Sather would just come out and declare the Rangers out of the Nash sweepstakes. The price is too high and Nash isn't the player we're missing. We can still look to add goals via Doan or Semin (an equally flawed player, but one who won't cost the team more than money). Barring that, they can always add at the deadline.

If nothing else, it would keep some of the 12 year old Rangers fans on here from offering NHL 2012 trades involving half our roster for the "name" player. Read your history books kids--giving up huge amounts of youth for declining "names" hasn't worked out so well for the Rangers in the past.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:49 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
The problem is that Howson badly needs to get back a player that is a:
1. Forward
2. Young
3. Promising
4. Able to contribute this coming season.

Dubinsky isn't enough of that. Hence why he is aiming for Skinner / Couture / Kreider types.
Aiming for, but isn't going to get. That's the problem- your GM is hung up on getting players he has no chance of getting.

You've got a 28 year old 60-70 point guy on a big contract, and you're shooting for cheap, 20-24 young potential or current star forwards, while negotiating with teams that see their offense as a weakness. Sorry, but no.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:50 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
The problem is that Howson badly needs to get back a player that is a:
1. Forward
2. Young
3. Promising
4. Able to contribute this coming season.

Dubinsky isn't enough of that. Hence why he is aiming for Skinner / Couture / Kreider types.
I agree. I think the problem is that he is then asking for other nice pieces in addition to the promising young player.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:51 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by FANonymous View Post
At which point we can then afford to give Nash away for pennies on the dollar. But why cross that bridge now? Especially knowing the CBJ's history of developing prospects.
That is fair, and probably the right move. Honestly I think I'm just trying to convince myself that we are the right trading partner for Nash when the Rangers really are not.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:52 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JayP812 View Post
Okay, Howson really wants Couture, how's this:


Logan Couture
2013 SJS 1st


Rick Nash
Derek Brassard

CBJ gets an amazing young future #1 center and a 1st, Sharks get an elite winger in Nash and Brassard helps our awful future.

Mostly a for ***** and giggles offer, really want something to happen.
As a Kings fan, I would support the Sharks making this trade. Just get Couture the hell out of the Pacific.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:53 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
I really wish Sather would just come out and declare the Rangers out of the Nash sweepstakes. The price is too high and Nash isn't the player we're missing. We can still look to add goals via Doan or Semin (an equally flawed player, but one who won't cost the team more than money). Barring that, they can always add at the deadline.

If nothing else, it would keep some of the 12 year old Rangers fans on here from offering NHL 2012 trades involving half our roster for the "name" player. Read your history books kids--giving up huge amounts of youth for declining "names" hasn't worked out so well for the Rangers in the past.
Personally I'd rather have Ryan but it seems Sather is dead set on Nash. Sooner or lather your gonna see the Rangers make a big trade involving 3 or 4 pieces since in maybe 2 years there could be log jams all over our roster. You should know by now Sather isn't going to blow up the roster.

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Old
07-06-2012, 12:54 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayP812 View Post
Okay, Howson really wants Couture, how's this:


Logan Couture
2013 SJS 1st


Rick Nash
Derek Brassard

CBJ gets an amazing young future #1 center and a 1st, Sharks get an elite winger in Nash and Brassard helps our awful future.

Mostly a for ***** and giggles offer, really want something to happen.
No one makes me satisfied enough for me to trade Couture (save for the elite guys like Weber etc). Nash sure as hell won't...especially Brassard, really don't like the contract for how little he provides. Lastly, we're taking in almost 11 million in cap space and only sending out 2 million...really hampers how we can keep the core signed.

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Old
07-06-2012, 01:34 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by NYRKING30 View Post
Personally I'd rather have Ryan but it seems Sather is dead set on Nash. Sooner or lather your gonna see the Rangers make a big trade involving 3 or 4 pieces since in maybe 2 years there could be log jams all over our roster. You should know by now Sather isn't going to blow up the roster.
I'd rather wait until the deadline to make a move, personally. We might find that we don't NEED to make a move (if Dubi bounces back, Kreider performs to expectations and Cally/MDZ/Stepan/Hagelin all keep up and/or progress).

Besides, you don't make trades now to address future log-jams. Remember Immonen? Anisimov as our first line center? Prucha? Ethan Werek? Sanguinetti? Grachev? Those guys were all going to bump people out of roster spots too. We hope for the best for Miller, Fasth, Thomas, et al, but it's bad management to move them before the log jam exists. Hell, our biggest weakness this past playoffs was lack of depth. We still have a couple of holes to fill before we need to worry about any kind of log jam situation.

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Old
07-06-2012, 01:41 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
I'd rather wait until the deadline to make a move, personally. We might find that we don't NEED to make a move (if Dubi bounces back, Kreider performs to expectations and Cally/MDZ/Stepan/Hagelin all keep up and/or progress).

Besides, you don't make trades now to address future log-jams. Remember Immonen? Anisimov as our first line center? Prucha? Ethan Werek? Sanguinetti? Grachev? Those guys were all going to bump people out of roster spots too. We hope for the best for Miller, Fasth, Thomas, et al, but it's bad management to move them before the log jam exists. Hell, our biggest weakness this past playoffs was lack of depth. We still have a couple of holes to fill before we need to worry about any kind of log jam situation.
I disagree about it being bad management. If Sather is positive the Rangers are ready to take it all the way, he shouldn't hesitate to move prospects. It's a crap shoot with prospects though. Look at guys like Brule, look at the guys you've listed. Not every one is going to pan out either. If it doesn't clean the farm out, one or two with a roster player or two is a risk, (you're right, alot of the prospects you mentioned could be the real deal), but so is holding on to every single one when a player like Nash is offered.

Personally, I think Howson is nuts in his demands, but when it is your best trading asset, and only certified star player (sorry JMFJ and Johanson fans), you need that big kind of return.

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Old
07-06-2012, 01:49 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
I know why you're not high on Erixon or Thomas, but to say they are third tier prospects is quite moronic. By Hockeysfuture chart, Erixon will become a first or second pair dman, Miller a 1st line or second line forward, and Thomas a 1/2 line forward or AHL'er(I do believe he has a high chance on not being anything). How is that third tier? This is all Nash aside. Erixon and Miller are definitely blue-chippers. Erixon will be an NHL'er this year, and Miller will be at least a 4th line center right now.

I would actually be okay with trading Stepan. I would slot Anisimov on 2nd line and Miller on 3rd, and Miller will surpass Arty quickly. I would do Stepan, Dubinsky, and a 1st. I believe that is a fair deal.
Stepan was in Tort's words the NYR most valuable and consistent forward about 40 games into the season....pretty amazing for a sophomore that produced a whopping 22 goals as a rookie

and has the complete game that the coach wants.

Also...Brad Richards was brought in to mentor Stepan...so he stays...and so does Kreider w/ his elite speed and good shot. Fact is Kreider probably scored more goals last playoffs then Rick would've if he was shipped to the NYR.

Nash is worth it....but only if the move keeps the current corps intact.

Anisimov/Dubinsky/Miller those are potential 2nd tier players that could form a combo w/ the likes of a Thomas/bourque/McIlrath(noreau is just as big)

but eventually an elite player would have to brought in.

Just as an aside

lets say they trade Dubinsky+ a pick for Yandle

and add Doan+Semin as UFA's

Kreider-Brad-Semin(speed headache)

Hagelin-Stepan-Doan*try to stop this line*

Pyatt-Anisimov-Callahan*about as good as having Dubinsky*

Asham-Boyle-Rupp(really missing Prust right now)

JTM-Newbury-Gilroy(Gilroy is a reserve Fwd/Dman)

Line 3 becomes Hrivika-Stepan-Gaborik

and Boyle gets Doan and Hagelin as his linemates while Rupp/Asham
sit after Gaborik is 100% healthy .


McDonagh-Girardi Shut DOWN!

Staal-Kubina --More Shut Down

Yandle-MDZ PPQB x2...try and stop this pairing from scoring..Ha

Erixon-Sauer(hey Mike might be the Ot Hero come next Summer!)

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Old
07-06-2012, 01:56 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
From a CBJ fan's perspective, not much. Depends on if Ryan would be happy playing here or not. If so, the arguable drop in production between Nash and Ryan would be offset by the fact that Ryan would tolerate being in Columbus (as well as his age).

I don't think Anaheim is on Nash's list though and I don't think Ryan would really be itching to come to Columbus.


Close, but this package has some more pieces (such as Hagelin). Personally I would want to swap out Hagelin and Miller for Stepan or Kreider.
.......... You just added two of their top prospects. The return will not be anywhere near this.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:01 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Ace2008 View Post
Stepan was in Tort's words the NYR most valuable and consistent forward about 40 games into the season....pretty amazing for a sophomore that produced a whopping 22 goals as a rookie

and has the complete game that the coach wants.

Also...Brad Richards was brought in to mentor Stepan...so he stays...and so does Kreider w/ his elite speed and good shot. Fact is Kreider probably scored more goals last playoffs then Rick would've if he was shipped to the NYR.

Nash is worth it....but only if the move keeps the current corps intact.

Anisimov/Dubinsky/Miller those are potential 2nd tier players that could form a combo w/ the likes of a Thomas/bourque/McIlrath(noreau is just as big)

but eventually an elite player would have to brought in.

Just as an aside

lets say they trade Dubinsky+ a pick for Yandle

and add Doan+Semin as UFA's

Kreider-Brad-Semin(speed headache)

Hagelin-Stepan-Doan*try to stop this line*

Pyatt-Anisimov-Callahan*about as good as having Dubinsky*

Asham-Boyle-Rupp(really missing Prust right now)

JTM-Newbury-Gilroy(Gilroy is a reserve Fwd/Dman)

Line 3 becomes Hrivika-Stepan-Gaborik

and Boyle gets Doan and Hagelin as his linemates while Rupp/Asham
sit after Gaborik is 100% healthy .


McDonagh-Girardi Shut DOWN!

Staal-Kubina --More Shut Down

Yandle-MDZ PPQB x2...try and stop this pairing from scoring..Ha

Erixon-Sauer(hey Mike might be the Ot Hero come next Summer!)
LOL. Ok.

Besides, why are you blowing up the team?

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:04 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
I really wish Sather would just come out and declare the Rangers out of the Nash sweepstakes. The price is too high and Nash isn't the player we're missing. We can still look to add goals via Doan or Semin (an equally flawed player, but one who won't cost the team more than money). Barring that, they can always add at the deadline.

If nothing else, it would keep some of the 12 year old Rangers fans on here from offering NHL 2012 trades involving half our roster for the "name" player. Read your history books kids--giving up huge amounts of youth for declining "names" hasn't worked out so well for the Rangers in the past.
This.

Slats will stay away from temptation, and not trade for an average 8 mill player with 50 something points. Stay the course. Play the kids. Fill the scoring hole a different way.

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07-06-2012, 02:12 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
The problem is that Howson badly needs to get back a player that is a:
1. Forward
2. Young
3. Promising
4. Able to contribute this coming season.

Dubinsky isn't enough of that. Hence why he is aiming for Skinner / Couture / Kreider types.
When do you see a young star in the making traded for a guy like Nash?

Aside from the Hossa/Heatley deal (different circumstances caused that trade), when do you see stars dealt for stars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
.......... You just added two of their top prospects. The return will not be anywhere near this.
Columbus fans (not all) disregard quite a few things when it comes to the Rangers from what I've seen...

1. Dubinsky has had only 1 bad season in the NHL. Has scored 40 or more points, and his points have increased every season with the exception of this season.

2. Stepan is not a prospect. Neither is Del Zotto. You're not getting two top-6 forwards for Nash, or a top-6 forward and a top-4 defenseman for Nash. Would you give up that much for a player who could handcuff you from signing several key RFA's with no guarantee of him being the 40/40/80 guy you all claim him to be?

3. Teams don't trade young stars away for older and higher paid players that produce at a similar level in the salary cap era. It's all about production/cap hit ratio in this day and age. If you can get 30 goals from Couture at 2 mill or 30 from Nash at 7.8 million, who do you want more? Couture, obviously.

4. Double Standard: You can value Dubinsky off of one bad year, but you can't value Nash off of 3 bad years in a row? I can't even say bad because it's not like he's had multiple 70+ point seasons, and has only had 1 40-goal season post-lockout.

Look, I'm not saying Rick Nash is a bad player. I think he's a very good player. I just don't like to throw around the word "elite" around his name and I don't think he's worth the 7.8 million cap hit that comes with it.

If it happens to cost what some Columbus fans think it will cost (I don't, I see a lot of people being very disappointed) to get Nash, I'd rather trade for Ryan or sign Semin. I'd rather bite the bullet financially and with cap space without giving up the assets.

Competitive teams don't kill their depth to put themselves over the top.

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Old
07-06-2012, 02:13 AM
  #120
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Rangers offence is weak, alot of two-way players with not a alot offensive instincts.. They need some kind of help at offence be it Nash or someone else, since they have amazing D core so they could explore a more offensive system..

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07-06-2012, 02:47 AM
  #121
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Rangers should just go for Semin.

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07-06-2012, 02:52 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
When do you see a young star in the making traded for a guy like Nash?

Aside from the Hossa/Heatley deal (different circumstances caused that trade), when do you see stars dealt for stars?
Pronger for Shanahan
Iginla for Nieuwendyk
Schenn for Richards
Voracek + 8th for Carter
J. Johnson for Carter
Francis for Cullen (a Patrick deal right?)


And if it weren't for hindsight there'd be many more examples where up and coming stars were dealt for established stars. Jussi Jokinen for example was looking pretty good before he was dealt for Brad Richards.

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07-06-2012, 02:55 AM
  #123
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I say they should do

Nash and Boll for Hagelin, Stepan, Girardi, 1st 2013 and 2nd 2013

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07-06-2012, 03:03 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by JayP812 View Post
Okay, Howson really wants Couture, how's this:

Logan Couture
2013 SJS 1st

Rick Nash
Derek Brassard

CBJ gets an amazing young future #1 center and a 1st, Sharks get an elite winger in Nash and Brassard helps our awful future.

Mostly a for ***** and giggles offer, really want something to happen.
If I'm CBJ, I'd jump on this and **** the **** out of it!

Two bad contract situations for two good ones while still getting high end talent back.

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07-06-2012, 03:09 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayP812 View Post
Okay, Howson really wants Couture, how's this:


Logan Couture
2013 SJS 1st


Rick Nash
Derek Brassard

CBJ gets an amazing young future #1 center and a 1st, Sharks get an elite winger in Nash and Brassard helps our awful future.

Mostly a for ***** and giggles offer, really want something to happen.
Brassard isn't that impressive. If the Jackets want Couture, you make them pay for it with Nash and next year's 1st plus them having to take Handzus.

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