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Summer Roster Moves VI: Return of the Peg-i

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Old
07-06-2012, 03:03 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
his cost to role value is too good to trade... what could possibly entice a contender to trade a player like Boyle?
Roy for Boyle?

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Old
07-06-2012, 03:17 PM
  #52
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More reason to hate Regier and Quinn.

Vanek's agent on WGR says Vanek got double what they would have asked for from Buffalo, but the Sabres didnt talk much leading up to July 1st in 2007. Mike Schopp even said 4 years $16 million probably gets Vanek signed, the agent agreed. WTF.

People really trust this GM?

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Old
07-06-2012, 03:30 PM
  #53
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Im not trying to say go get Stastny he will win us a cup or he is even what this team needs right now. Im just saying he is a more complete player then Roy and I would take him 100 times out of 100 over Roy.

on a side note:

Why not just stack up our wingers with grit and veteran leadership and let Ennis, Hodgson and Grigorenko play the 123 down the middle?

I know we want a more veteran savy Center to mentor our young guys but then your taking on the job expierence from them.

I would love to see them go hard after Iginla. Not sure what it would take tho. Surround youth with Veteran Leaders.

Vanek-Grigorenko-Iginla
Ott-Hodgson-Pomminville
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford

Im sure it would take a lot to get Iginla but I think that top 9 would be deadly.

Iginla offer anyone?

Adam, Armia, Pysyk and draft pick or picks?
Iginla's a great player, but with the Flames bring Hartley in, there's no way they move him unless they're out of the playoff race at the trade deadline. Not a realistic target right now, imo.

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Old
07-06-2012, 03:32 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
More reason to hate Regier and Quinn.

Vanek's agent on WGR says Vanek got double what they would have asked for from Buffalo, but the Sabres didnt talk much leading up to July 1st in 2007. Mike Schopp even said 4 years $16 million probably gets Vanek signed, the agent agreed. WTF.

People really trust this GM?
Regier's hands were tied. Quinn and Golisano didn't want them negotiating in season. That's why McKee left the year before, and why at least a deal with Drury if not also Briere didn't get done. It took catastrophe to make them change their tune, and we got deals for Hecht, Gaustad, and Pominville (and assets for Campbell) the next year.

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07-06-2012, 03:33 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
Regier's hands were tied. Quinn and Golisano didn't want them negotiating in season. That's why McKee left the year before, and why at least a deal with Drury if not also Briere didn't get done. It took catastrophe to make them change their tune, and we got deals for Hecht, Gaustad, and Pominville (and assets for Campbell) the next year.
Obviously they were tied, literally, he couldnt even make phone calls to the agent of his franchise player to see what they were thinking.

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07-06-2012, 03:36 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
More reason to hate Regier and Quinn.

Vanek's agent on WGR says Vanek got double what they would have asked for from Buffalo, but the Sabres didnt talk much leading up to July 1st in 2007. Mike Schopp even said 4 years $16 million probably gets Vanek signed, the agent agreed. WTF.

People really trust this GM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Obviously they were tied, literally, he couldnt even make phone calls to the agent of his franchise player to see what they were thinking.

It's well-accepted that Larry Quinn, team president at the time, had imposed upon Darcy a stringent policy forbidding absolutely any contract talks during a season. That led to an inability to hammer out a deal with Vanek before he officially became an RFA and could seek offers, as well as directly and indirectly the departures of Briere and Drury.

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Old
07-06-2012, 03:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
It's well-accepted that Larry Quinn, team president at the time, had imposed upon Darcy a stringent policy forbidding absolutely any contract talks during a season. That led to an inability to hammer out a deal with Vanek before he officially became an RFA and could seek offers, as well as directly and indirectly the departures of Briere and Drury.
When did the season end? So many excuses. I think the agent said very little dialog between him and the Sabres leading up to July 1st. That is inexcusable.

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07-06-2012, 03:39 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
When did the season end? So many excuses.
Even then, Quinn/Golisano had a meeting with Regier well after the season had ended to discuss contracts. Then only came the infamous 5/25 deals maybe what, 2 days prior to July 1st?

It is pretty much fact that Quinn/Golisano screwed Regier over by forcing him to wait until the 11th hour to start negotiating anything with anyone.

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07-06-2012, 03:40 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
When did the season end? So many excuses.
About a month before free agency on account of they went to the conference finals, at which point it makes about 0 sense for Vanek to get a deal done.

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07-06-2012, 03:42 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
Even then, Quinn/Golisano had a meeting with Regier well after the season had ended to discuss contracts. Then only came the infamous 5/25 deals maybe what, 2 days prior to July 1st?

It is pretty much fact that Quinn/Golisano screwed Regier over by forcing him to wait until the 11th hour to start negotiating anything with anyone.
Regier cant get a pass, he can have conversations with his players and agents without offering money. It was his job to have open dialog.

I will move on for now though.

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07-06-2012, 03:44 PM
  #61
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About a month before free agency on account of they went to the conference finals, at which point it makes about 0 sense for Vanek to get a deal done.
More like 6-7 weeks. Long time to find out what your franchise player is thinking. Especially since they already made up their minds to let Briere go without a serious offer.

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07-06-2012, 03:45 PM
  #62
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It's not like talking to Vanek would prevent Lowe from presenting his offer sheet anyways.

I don't understand how people still can't accept that Quinn/Golisano are at fault for the entire 2007 debacle.

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07-06-2012, 03:46 PM
  #63
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I understand you may like Dubinsky and Boyle as players more than Vanek, but making that trade would be like trading a million dollar house for a 80k house because you'd prefer a cozier place. If you want to trade Vanek, you just have to get more than that back.
it's more like trading a house you bought in 2005 for 500k that has a leaky roof and wall to wall carpet for a 150k house in today's market and a Ford F150.

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07-06-2012, 03:48 PM
  #64
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It's not like talking to Vanek would prevent Lowe from presenting his offer sheet anyways.

I don't understand how people still can't accept that Quinn/Golisano are at fault for the entire 2007 debacle.
Because Mike Peca happened without them. Dialog seems to be his worst quality. Why people make excuses for Regier but praise him for other moves during that time doesn't make much sense to me. The way people talk, Regier had nothing to do with anything.


Last edited by SabresAreScaryGood: 07-06-2012 at 03:59 PM.
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07-06-2012, 04:03 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Because Mike Peca happened without them. Dialog seems to be his worst quality. Why people make excuses for Regier but praise him for other moves during that time doesn't make much sense to me. The way people talk, Regier had nothing to do with anything.
A lot of the decisions that ****ed the Sabres over weren't his to make at that point in time. I will never judge anything he did pre-Pegula in the same light as with Pegula as the owner. I basically view his tenure under Pegs as a complete do-over. So far, the bulk of what he's done under TP has been to my liking. He's shipped out many pieces of the failing old core and has brought in a lot of quality young players. Aside from Leino, he's done pretty well with contracts, though we're obviously still waiting to see what happens with Ennis. I'm just not willing to fault the guy for situations he had little to no control over.

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07-06-2012, 04:08 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it's more like trading a house you bought in 2005 for 500k that has a leaky roof and wall to wall carpet for a 150k house in today's market and a Ford F150.
Vanek is worth more than Boyle and Dubs objectively and to the Sabres.

The original analogy made much more sense because Vanek is still a 500k house comparative to Dubs or Boyle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Because Mike Peca happened without them. Dialog seems to be his worst quality. Why people make excuses for Regier but praise him for other moves during that time doesn't make much sense to me. The way people talk, Regier had nothing to do with anything.
Well you just literally said people praise him for other moves during that time, so then you would think "the way people talk", Regier had something to do with something. This criticism is just such a reach considering what is accepted to be the circumstances. If you want to criticize Darcy, by all means there are a dozen other things to debate.

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07-06-2012, 04:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Because Mike Peca happened without them. Dialog seems to be his worst quality. Why people make excuses for Regier but praise him for other moves during that time doesn't make much sense to me. The way people talk, Regier had nothing to do with anything.
I'm not as familiar with the business side of the whole Peca fiasco as that was when I was much younger and didn't care about all of that stuff. But that might be a more legitimate gripe on Regier than the summer of 2007.

There's a reason Chain's thread was titled "**** you Larry Quinn" and not Darcy Regier.

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07-06-2012, 04:13 PM
  #68
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I think it's pretty funny how some will believe agents, other coaches, other GM's, other owners, reporters, radio talk shows, websites, bloggers, and clueless opinionated columnists. But they absolutely will NOT believe anything that Regier, Ruff or Pegula says

And they don't even see it.

Sad, pathetic, and ignorant.

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Old
07-06-2012, 04:15 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Regier cant get a pass, he can have conversations with his players and agents without offering money. It was his job to have open dialog.

I will move on for now though.
Not if his boss forbids him from doing so.

There is a reason that Pegula said the handcufffs were off Regier when he was introduced as the owner.

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Old
07-06-2012, 04:19 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Because Mike Peca happened without them. Dialog seems to be his worst quality. Why people make excuses for Regier but praise him for other moves during that time doesn't make much sense to me. The way people talk, Regier had nothing to do with anything.

Natives are getting restless....... #DoSomethingDarcy !!!!

Why do you insist on *****ing about **** from years ago when it's clear he has no problems with "dialog" today in regards to how he's handled contracts since Pegula took over. If you can't see the difference then you're blinded by your bias.

We get it...you hate Darcy. He's the GM and "he ain't going anywhere" for the time being

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07-06-2012, 04:33 PM
  #71
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Natives are getting restless....... #DoSomethingDarcy !!!!

Why do you insist on *****ing about **** from years ago when it's clear he has no problems with "dialog" today in regards to how he's handled contracts since Pegula took over. If you can't see the difference then you're blinded by your bias.

We get it...you hate Darcy. He's the GM and "he ain't going anywhere" for the time being
More like the naives. : high-fives everyone :

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07-06-2012, 04:36 PM
  #72
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More like the naives. : high-fives everyone :


dat RP mfer on fire

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07-06-2012, 04:45 PM
  #73
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So it's evident this team needs a 2/3 veteran C to take some pressure off Hodgson and Ennis. They've been mentioned in other threads, but it's time to put a stake in the sand. Who do you want, what's realistic, and who do you think Regier is after? (I really thought Regier thought he was signing Jokinen when he dealt Roy...)

Two that stand out to me and make sense:

Filpulla (for a deal around Sekera)
Brodziak (for a deal around Leopold)

Both are plausible candidates and good in different ways. Both would fill a huge hole and allow Regier to go after scoring on the wing. Neither would stand in the way if Grigorenko comes out the gate like Malkin (as unlikely as that may be.)

Regier can't go into the season sporting Ennis, Cody, and a plethora of fourth-line depth centers. He also can't count on Ott or Leino to pick up the slack (which they may be asked to do in lieu of injuries anyway). So what's his master plan? And I said this before, but I really think Hecht becomes his worst case scenario...

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07-06-2012, 04:56 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Vanek is worth more than Boyle and Dubs objectively and to the Sabres.

The original analogy made much more sense because Vanek is still a 500k house comparative to Dubs or Boyle.
It amazes me that Sabres fans haven't come down to earth regarding the value of their loser core... even after Roy was traded.

I don't think Vanek's "objective" 60 points, is worth more then Dubinsky and Boyles combined 60 points.... do you want to look at 2011 when Vanek had 70 pts... and dubi+boyle had 90?

And after objective points... Dubinsky and Boyle are objectively better in every other way

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07-06-2012, 04:57 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
So it's evident this team needs a 2/3 veteran C to take some pressure off Hodgson and Ennis. They've been mentioned in other threads, but it's time to put a stake in the sand. Who do you want, what's realistic, and who do you think Regier is after? (I really thought Regier thought he was signing Jokinen when he dealt Roy...)

Two that stand out to me and make sense:

Filpulla (for a deal around Sekera)
Brodziak (for a deal around Leopold)

Both are plausible candidates and good in different ways. Both would fill a huge hole and allow Regier to go after scoring on the wing. Neither would stand in the way if Grigorenko comes out the gate like Malkin (as unlikely as that may be.)

Regier can't go into the season sporting Ennis, Cody, and a plethora of fourth-line depth centers. He also can't count on Ott or Leino to pick up the slack (which they may be asked to do in lieu of injuries anyway). So what's his master plan? And I said this before, but I really think Hecht becomes his worst case scenario...
Pominille and Flip took almost the same number of draws last season. Flip isn't a center.

Brodziak kinda sucks at taking draws.....and we already have two very unproved options there.....

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