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Summer Roster Moves VI: Return of the Peg-i

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Old
07-24-2012, 03:33 PM
  #901
HiddenInLight
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Either Benn or O'Reilly, I would think would be key. I would lose the draft picks to get either of those guys. I figure one of those guys might very well put us into the 21-30 draft range for the next four years, and with those kinds of picks, you're probably happy if 1 out of every four of them turn into a Benn or O'Reilly.

Edit: FWIW, Colorado fans seem to be saying they would take the four 1sts when I posed a ROR sheet on their boards.
Personally, I don't think that OSing ROR would be a good idea.....that is three VERY young centers with no veteran presence to help them out if they stumble....that being said, if we WERE to OS ROR, two years down the road we would arguably have close to the best (if not THE best) center depth in the league...Hodgeson, Ennis, ROR, Grigs, Girgs, Catonicci, Sundher.....plus any other centers we draft between now at then.....

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07-24-2012, 03:36 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Trading Vanek for Ryan does not improve the team's playoff chances.We need Ryan to play WITH Vanek.
I agree with this point, I don't see the point in sending Vanek to get Ryan if the whole point of getting Ryan is to get a power forward to play with Vanek.

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07-24-2012, 03:44 PM
  #903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Ryan has never scored 40 goals or 80 points.Vanek has hit 40 twice.Both times before the age of 25, which Ryan is now.

Trading Vanek for Ryan does not improve the team's playoff chances.We need Ryan to play WITH Vanek.
I was responding to Stafford/Ryan. And I was using those benchmarks arbitrarily, because the next step in that debate is to bring up some schmuck who hit either one playing with a superstar in the 80s.

Vanek also did both as a "third" liner. I agree that he's been generally underrated this offseason though, and if we trade him (unlikely, IMO), I hope he does very well wherever he ends up.

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07-24-2012, 04:01 PM
  #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Ryan has never scored 40 goals or 80 points.Vanek has hit 40 twice.Both times before the age of 25, which Ryan is now.

Trading Vanek for Ryan does not improve the team's playoff chances.We need Ryan to play WITH Vanek.
Vanek averages less then 30 goals per year over the last 3 years.

I don't think anyone cares what Vanek did in 05-07, those numbers are inflated from the post lockout era of open ice

Ryan is younger and better

Those post lockout years... are misleading.

Paul Stastny is a 70 pt player in those years... in today's game he's a 50 pt player.

Same goes for Vanek... in those days he was a 40 goal/70+ player.... today, he's a 30/30/60 guy. Which is exactly what Ryan is today... but younger, less expensive, and far more physical.

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07-24-2012, 04:03 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
I agree with this point, I don't see the point in sending Vanek to get Ryan if the whole point of getting Ryan is to get a power forward to play with Vanek.
I'd do that trade. Ryan is younger, cheaper, more physical, and just as good. Would I prefer to keep Vanek and get Ryan? Sure, but I would also trade Vanek for Ryan straight up.

People bring up Vanek's 40 goal season and his 80 point season, both of which happened before Ryan was a full-time NHLer (2008), back when scoring was much higher and every-bodies point totals were up.

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07-24-2012, 04:22 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Trading Vanek for Ryan does not improve the team's playoff chances.
That's debatable, because the playoffs are more of a physical game where players that star in the regular season can be neutralized. Bobby Ryan is much more of a physical player than Vanek is, more hits, more blocked shots. He doesn't have the power play goals that Vanek does, but on the flip side that also means he's better at scoring goals at even strength. And he's a better skater.

Actually, I think trading Vanek for Ryan does make us better in the playoffs. I get the point about the desire to have them both at the same time, yet an upgrade is still an upgrade.

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07-24-2012, 04:31 PM
  #907
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Vanek's had a better rate of production over the last three years as the team's primary threat. Ryan's managed to put up comparable numbers in a much better environment.

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07-24-2012, 04:37 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Vanek's had a better rate of production over the last three years as the team's primary threat. Ryan's managed to put up comparable numbers in a much better environment.
Vanek also gets an extra minute of powerplay time per game. Ryan's not even on the top unit in Anaheim.

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07-24-2012, 04:40 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Vanek also gets an extra minute of powerplay time per game. Ryan's not even on the top unit in Anaheim.
So now we want to penalize Vanek for being good on the PP? A point is a point and a goal is a goal, no matter when you get it. If Ryan was that good, he would get the PP time.

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07-24-2012, 04:44 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
So now we want to penalize Vanek for being good on the PP? A point is a point and a goal is a goal, no matter when you get it. If Ryan was that good, he would get the PP time.
Don't be thick, what I said had nothing to do with penalizing Vanek.

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07-24-2012, 04:45 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Vanek also gets an extra minute of powerplay time per game. Ryan's not even on the top unit in Anaheim.
While playing a minute+ more at ES with better linemates.

Can we just stop this and agree that Vanek/Ryan, in all its unlikelihood, is far more about the style of play of this team going forward than on-paper production?

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Old
07-24-2012, 04:47 PM
  #912
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Why the hell are you people even debating Vanek/Ryan? ... ITS NOT HAPPENING ....The only reason Ducks were looking/thinking about moving Ryan was to gain depth and create money to sign Perry and Getzlaf...

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07-24-2012, 05:16 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Why the hell are you people even debating Vanek/Ryan? ... ITS NOT HAPPENING ....The only reason Ducks were looking/thinking about moving Ryan was to gain depth and create money to sign Perry and Getzlaf...
Somebody compared the two players and said that trading Vanek for Ryan made no sense. I simply pointed out that it in fact does, since you're getting similar production in a more complete, younger, cheaper player.

If you are upset with people debating purely hypothetical situations with an extremely unlikely chance of happening I'd recommend you avoid these boards until October.

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07-24-2012, 05:21 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Why the hell are you people even debating Vanek/Ryan? ... ITS NOT HAPPENING ....The only reason Ducks were looking/thinking about moving Ryan was to gain depth and create money to sign Perry and Getzlaf...
Because it's the off-season?

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Old
07-24-2012, 05:30 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Somebody compared the two players and said that trading Vanek for Ryan made no sense. I simply pointed out that it in fact does, since you're getting similar production in a more complete, younger, cheaper player.

If you are upset with people debating purely hypothetical situations with an extremely unlikely chance of happening I'd recommend you avoid these boards until October.

Touche...

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Old
07-24-2012, 06:15 PM
  #916
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Ryan sure is an elite playoff performer. He has 11 points in 19 games and Vanek had 20 in 36 games. But since someone says only the last 3 years matter ,which means Vanek has 8 points in 10 games that means Vanek is actually the better playoff performer

I just think its funny that im the person whos wrong because I think the 3x 35 goal scorer with the higher career ppg and gpg who gets far less ice time with worse linemates is better then the 1x 35 goal scorer who plays with perennial all stars and gets more ice time. No one is wrong or right comparing the two, but Vanek is not getting the respect he deserves.

Vanek - elite pp performer and best goal scorer from the 03 draft / best draft of all time #fact

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07-24-2012, 06:23 PM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Ryan sure is an elite playoff performer. He has 11 points in 19 games and Vanek had 20 in 36 games. But since someone says only the last 3 years matter ,which means Vanek has 8 points in 10 games that means Vanek is actually the better playoff performer

I just think its funny that im the person whos wrong because I think the 3x 35 goal scorer with the higher career ppg and gpg who gets far less ice time with worse linemates is better then the 1x 35 goal scorer who plays with perennial all stars and gets more ice time. No one is wrong or right comparing the two, but Vanek is not getting the respect he deserves.

Vanek - elite pp performer and best goal scorer from the 03 draft / best draft of all time #fact

You're not wrong....because it doesn't make sense to trade Vanek for Ryan ... It's a lateral move for the most part. We may be a bit better with Ryan? We may not. The whole point of obtaining Ryan is to increase our scoring...inserting 30 goals into the line up while taking 30 out doesn't really do much.

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Old
07-24-2012, 06:23 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Why the hell are you people even debating Vanek/Ryan? ... ITS NOT HAPPENING ....The only reason Ducks were looking/thinking about moving Ryan was to gain depth and create money to sign Perry and Getzlaf...
IIRC the Ducks are under the cap floor.

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Old
07-24-2012, 06:25 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
IIRC the Ducks are under the cap floor.

They're at 54 mill....which i believe is just over!?

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Old
07-24-2012, 06:29 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
They're at 54 mill....which i believe is just over!?
They are at 54,064,167. The floor is 54,200,000. So they are about 140,000 under.

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07-24-2012, 06:41 PM
  #921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Ryan sure is an elite playoff performer. He has 11 points in 19 games and Vanek had 20 in 36 games. But since someone says only the last 3 years matter ,which means Vanek has 8 points in 10 games that means Vanek is actually the better playoff performer

I just think its funny that im the person whos wrong because I think the 3x 35 goal scorer with the higher career ppg and gpg who gets far less ice time with worse linemates is better then the 1x 35 goal scorer who plays with perennial all stars and gets more ice time. No one is wrong or right comparing the two, but Vanek is not getting the respect he deserves.

Vanek - elite pp performer and best goal scorer from the 03 draft / best draft of all time #fact
Staal and Parise are good scorers as well. As are Richards, Carter, Perry, and Getzlaf.

I get what you're trying to say, though. Goals.

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07-24-2012, 06:42 PM
  #922
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Stafford + Armia +Adam + 1st

For


Pavelski + Clowe


Yes, No, Maybe?

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07-24-2012, 06:46 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Stafford + Armia +Adam + 1st

For


Pavelski + Clowe


Yes, No, Maybe?
I typically believe anything Regier says, so I would guess they arent trading a forward, just defense.

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07-24-2012, 06:49 PM
  #924
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I typically believe anything Regier says, so I would guess they arent trading a forward, just defense.

For one... I wouldn't believe any GM (100%) what they say to the media ...... And second..... when did he say he wasn't trading any forwards?

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07-24-2012, 06:57 PM
  #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Stafford + Armia +Adam + 1st

For


Pavelski + Clowe


Yes, No, Maybe?
In a heart beat. Stafford for Clowe is a wash. You lose a few goals (maybe) and add more mileage, but you also get bigger and more physical in the top six. So it's a top prospect, a middling prospect, and a first for a quality center with a 4M cap hit? Armia might be a beast in a few years, but Pavelski makes this team better up the middle instantly.

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