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trade Getzlaf for Burmi and Enstrom

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Old
07-07-2012, 08:31 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
A respectful face palm to not wanting to do this trade. Getzlaf is pretty much everything we HOPE Scheifele can become. Enstrom's role will be diminishing every year as bogosian gets better and burmistrov has a pedigree but has not proven jack at the NHL level.

As a hockey trade (excluding contracts, this trade would make Ducks fans everywhere scratch their eyes out.

Also, it's not like Anaheim could afford to trade the one above average center they have. Nor are they short on young PMD either...

I'd be so ecstatic if this trade ever went down. But sadly, it won't. It just can't.
So it makes sense to just potentially waste an asset like Burmistrov on the "hope" that the Jets could get Getzlaf signed?

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07-07-2012, 09:04 AM
  #27
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So it makes sense to just potentially waste an asset like Burmistrov on the "hope" that the Jets could get Getzlaf signed?
I'm in agreement with you. Personally, I'd prefer the Jets just waited until he was a UFA - if he fits in the plans at that point, go after him. At that point, it's just a cost of a contract, instead of giving up assets now with the hope that he signs next year. Anything can happen, but I doubt adding Getzlaf to this line-up now makes the team a strong bet to push for the cup this year.

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07-07-2012, 09:26 AM
  #28
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If we're in LA's position, with lots of assets, a playoff team, thinking all we need is a little push to get us over the top, I do this trade. But we're not, we're a long way off from that. I like Getzlaf, love to have him, but there is no point to having a number one Center when we don't have a true number one anything else (Ok, maybe #1 right wing with Wheeler). Pavs is good but it will be another season or two before he's completely on top of his game. Kane will almost certainly be a #1 left wing but he still has imporoving to do too.

The only guys on this team who are fully mature and of high enough quality to win us a cup are Ladd, Slater, Enstrom, Stuart, and probably Wheeler and Little. Even Buff needs to improve if we are going to win the cup with him. Thorburn, Antropov, Hainsey, these guys aren't going to be around to help us win.

Sorry that was a rant but I think guys are getting ahead of themselves here. We still have years to go before we can contend for the cup. And don't forget that's what we are trying to do is win the cup. I don't want to be Calgary, always trying to push for the playoffs and never building for the long term.

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07-07-2012, 10:17 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Hansen Brother View Post
If we're in LA's position, with lots of assets, a playoff team, thinking all we need is a little push to get us over the top, I do this trade. But we're not, we're a long way off from that. I like Getzlaf, love to have him, but there is no point to having a number one Center when we don't have a true number one anything else (Ok, maybe #1 right wing with Wheeler). Pavs is good but it will be another season or two before he's completely on top of his game. Kane will almost certainly be a #1 left wing but he still has imporoving to do too.

The only guys on this team who are fully mature and of high enough quality to win us a cup are Ladd, Slater, Enstrom, Stuart, and probably Wheeler and Little. Even Buff needs to improve if we are going to win the cup with him. Thorburn, Antropov, Hainsey, these guys aren't going to be around to help us win.

Sorry that was a rant but I think guys are getting ahead of themselves here. We still have years to go before we can contend for the cup. And don't forget that's what we are trying to do is win the cup. I don't want to be Calgary, always trying to push for the playoffs and never building for the long term.
Agree with you, Hansen Bro.
I am assuming TNSE is looking 3-5 years ahead for a true contender, so trading for a star who will then be over 30, while giving up a potential star in his youth is simply not consistent with that approach.
Also, I happen to think Enstrom is WAAAAYY undervalued by many on this board. Not saying we should never trade him, but if we do it has to be for significant talent, youth and future potential.

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07-07-2012, 12:52 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
giving up a potential star in his youth
I think this about Burmi too. But, honestly, I don't see a lot of maybes about this kid. He still has some filling out to do and he needs to improve on faceoffs, but those will come as his frame bulks up. He's got a great defensive game, probably almost as good as either Staal in Carolina, and his offensive numbers are seriously misleading. We've all seen how smoothly he can change gears up and down, buying himself space and time. His hockey sense is amazing, and IMPROVING!
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I happen to think Enstrom is WAAAAYY undervalued by many on this board. Not saying we should never trade him, but if we do it has to be for significant talent, youth and future potential.
And we're in agreement again. Putting the whole contract thing aside, just on face value, I wouldn't do Enstrom for Getzlaf straight up. I want a top 10 pick or prospect coming back. This guy does everything right, and he does it under the radar (compared to Buff and Bogo, anyway) and can give you 25 minutes of intelligent, hard-working hockey every night. He's not overly physical, but that's not a prerequisite for awesome.

The way I see it, Bogo and Burmi (MAYBE Wheeler) are completely untouchable. Enstrom, Buff and Kane are tradeable but really expensive.

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07-07-2012, 01:04 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by heilongjetsfan View Post
I think this about Burmi too. But, honestly, I don't see a lot of maybes about this kid. He still has some filling out to do and he needs to improve on faceoffs, but those will come as his frame bulks up. He's got a great defensive game, probably almost as good as either Staal in Carolina, and his offensive numbers are seriously misleading. We've all seen how smoothly he can change gears up and down, buying himself space and time. His hockey sense is amazing, and IMPROVING! And we're in agreement again. Putting the whole contract thing aside, just on face value, I wouldn't do Enstrom for Getzlaf straight up. I want a top 10 pick or prospect coming back. This guy does everything right, and he does it under the radar (compared to Buff and Bogo, anyway) and can give you 25 minutes of intelligent, hard-working hockey every night. He's not overly physical, but that's not a prerequisite for awesome.

The way I see it, Bogo and Burmi (MAYBE Wheeler) are completely untouchable. Enstrom, Buff and Kane are tradeable but really expensive.
You would not trade Enstrom for Getzlaf if Getzlaf wanted to be here? Oh ... ok then.

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07-07-2012, 01:50 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hansen Brother View Post
If we're in LA's position, with lots of assets, a playoff team, thinking all we need is a little push to get us over the top, I do this trade. But we're not, we're a long way off from that. I like Getzlaf, love to have him, but there is no point to having a number one Center when we don't have a true number one anything else (Ok, maybe #1 right wing with Wheeler). Pavs is good but it will be another season or two before he's completely on top of his game. Kane will almost certainly be a #1 left wing but he still has imporoving to do too.

The only guys on this team who are fully mature and of high enough quality to win us a cup are Ladd, Slater, Enstrom, Stuart, and probably Wheeler and Little. Even Buff needs to improve if we are going to win the cup with him. Thorburn, Antropov, Hainsey, these guys aren't going to be around to help us win.

Sorry that was a rant but I think guys are getting ahead of themselves here. We still have years to go before we can contend for the cup. And don't forget that's what we are trying to do is win the cup. I don't want to be Calgary, always trying to push for the playoffs and never building for the long term.
Why I disagree with your statement^
Looking at production only (yes I know there is more too it than that), with 30 teams existing, if you are producing top 30 for your position you're a legit 1st liner (and 60 for 2nd and 90 for 3rd if you're running a top 9 line).
LW:
Kane 22nd
Ladd 29th
Ponikarovsky 52nd
C:
Jokkinen 19th
Little 42nd
Burmistrov 84th*
RW:
Wheeler 12th
???** 27th-35th
Antropov 49th

Looks like we have pretty good forwards line depth. I'm starting to sound like a broken record... But I'm stoked on this year as we seem like we're one piece short forwards wise. If:
#Pavs can pull a .917-.920
#We reduce our penalties, improve our PK
#Our back up is a +.900
#TNSE continues helping Buff with his gaffs
#Our youthful players continue to improve
I can see us making playoffs this year (and I think the FA pickups will help these points since our forward depth will improve these problems).

*Burmistrov improved his points by aprox 60% for the amount of TOI he received and without much PP time, if he continues this rate he'll be in around 40ish points which will put him in the late 40ies early 50ies for placement
**Semin 27th, Stafford 31st, Wellwood 35th... just to name a few options that were avail a few days ago

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07-07-2012, 02:15 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Why I disagree with your statement^
Looking at production only (yes I know there is more too it than that), with 30 teams existing, if you are producing top 30 for your position you're a legit 1st liner (and 60 for 2nd and 90 for 3rd if you're running a top 9 line).
LW:
Kane 22nd
Ladd 29th
Ponikarovsky 52nd
C:
Jokkinen 19th
Little 42nd
Burmistrov 84th*
RW:
Wheeler 12th
???** 27th-35th
Antropov 49th

Looks like we have pretty good forwards line depth. I'm starting to sound like a broken record... But I'm stoked on this year as we seem like we're one piece short forwards wise. If:
#Pavs can pull a .917-.920
#We reduce our penalties, improve our PK
#Our back up is a +.900
#TNSE continues helping Buff with his gaffs
#Our youthful players continue to improve
I can see us making playoffs this year (and I think the FA pickups will help these points since our forward depth will improve these problems).

*Burmistrov improved his points by aprox 60% for the amount of TOI he received and without much PP time, if he continues this rate he'll be in around 40ish points which will put him in the late 40ies early 50ies for placement
**Semin 27th, Stafford 31st, Wellwood 35th... just to name a few options that were avail a few days ago
what stafford is it that was available the only one i can think of is Drew stafford nd he's signed for a couple more years

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07-07-2012, 02:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Zhamnov10 View Post
what stafford is it that was available the only one i can think of is Drew stafford nd he's signed for a couple more years
To be honest can't remember like I said this list is a few days old for UFAs. That wasn't the point of the post though :p just show variable options.

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07-07-2012, 03:10 PM
  #35
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First and foremost, we are getting way ahead of ourselves here. It is very likely that Getzlaf will be resigned to a long term contract before the start of next season.

Even if they don't resign him and they start listening to offers I don't think an offer of Burmistrov and Enstrom would be competitive with the offers some of the teams around the league would make.

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07-07-2012, 03:29 PM
  #36
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First and foremost, we are getting way ahead of ourselves here. It is very likely that Getzlaf will be resigned to a long term contract before the start of next season.

Even if they don't resign him and they start listening to offers I don't think an offer of Burmistrov and Enstrom would be competitive with the offers some of the teams around the league would make.

True, the chance of getting him is small, just have an issue when some people diminish the positives he brings and what may be considered an overpayment for him , by some.

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07-07-2012, 03:55 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
True, the chance of getting him is small, just have an issue when some people diminish the positives he brings and what may be considered an overpayment for him , by some.
He brings many positives: I think having Getzlaf on the Jets would be a fantastic thing, but if you go with the original proposal, there's a risk that you are literally giving Burmi away and end up with nothing next year if Getzlaf does not re-sign.

I'd go after him as a UFA, if he does not get re-signed before then. No assets given up at all, just a potential bidding war and large contract.

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07-07-2012, 04:04 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
He brings many positives: I think having Getzlaf on the Jets would be a fantastic thing, but if you go with the original proposal, there's a risk that you are literally giving Burmi away and end up with nothing next year if Getzlaf does not re-sign.

I'd go after him as a UFA, if he does not get re-signed before then. No assets given up at all, just a potential bidding war and large contract.

You make the deal if you have some insight to the future contract , much like Carolina did with Staal , he signed for the same amount he turned down from Pittsburgh , because he wanted to be there . You don't do it blind , I agree.

Turning down Getzlaf for Enstrom straight up is beyond laughable imho.

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07-07-2012, 04:51 PM
  #39
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You make the deal if you have some insight to the future contract , much like Carolina did with Staal , he signed for the same amount he turned down from Pittsburgh , because he wanted to be there . You don't do it blind , I agree.

Turning down Getzlaf for Enstrom straight up is beyond laughable imho.
I'm assuming that you're referring to another post in this thread, as I didn't say I wouldn't trade Enstrom for Getzlaf - I would. It would enable us to move Little to the wing, gives us two large top 6 centres, and 2 strong bottom 6 centres. The forward line-up would be fantastic. We'd have a hole on defense, but you may be able to make it a serviceable, if not flashy, defensive lineup with prospects or via a trade or FA pickup.

The likelihood of that deal happening is pretty low though, IMHO.

Kane - Getzlaf - Wheeler
Ladd - Jokinen - Little
Poni - Antro - Burmi
Cormier - Slater - Machecek / Thorburn

That would be nice. Figure out a way to make it happen. The average size of our C's would be somewhere around 6'2 or 3, 215-220lbs.


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07-07-2012, 06:36 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I hear what you are saying, but what happens if that trade went through and then Getzlaf walked as as UFA?

We would have lost:

Enstrom (if he would have signed here) or all the parts that a traded Enstrom would have returned, AND a 21 year old Burmistrov who might just be scratching the surface of his potential.

I just personally wouldn't want to make that gamble.
100% agree with ya Huff

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07-07-2012, 07:02 PM
  #41
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Getzlaf does not fit into our 5 year plan, which is what I believe it'll take for Chevy's plan to come to fruition.

Sure he'd be great to have for the next 5 years but I can't see us gambling with Burmistrovs potential.

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07-07-2012, 07:52 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
I'm assuming that you're referring to another post in this thread, as I didn't say I wouldn't trade Enstrom for Getzlaf - I would. It would enable us to move Little to the wing, gives us two large top 6 centres, and 2 strong bottom 6 centres. The forward line-up would be fantastic. We'd have a hole on defense, but you may be able to make it a serviceable, if not flashy, defensive lineup with prospects or via a trade or FA pickup.

The likelihood of that deal happening is pretty low though, IMHO.

Kane - Getzlaf - Wheeler
Ladd - Jokinen - Little
Poni - Antro - Burmi
Cormier - Slater - Machecek / Thorburn

That would be nice. Figure out a way to make it happen. The average size of our C's would be somewhere around 6'2 or 3, 215-220lbs.
It was to another post , and while I think it very unlikely to happen , we agree it would be wrong to just dismiss the opportunity to add a player entering his prime with size and production history.

Getzlaf is the type of C Kane would flourish with I believe , and is not too old for the long range plans for this club at all. If you have the chance to add an elite player , with size at a cost you agree with you have to be assertive.

Slim chance though , but Getzlaf for Enstrom , straight up? and you say no? Yikes ... hole or no hole on D , that would solidify the C spot and you have Scheifele and Sutter knocking on the door in a year or two , that builds you the right way for the long term imo.


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07-07-2012, 08:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
It was to another post , and while I think it very unlikely to happen , we agree it would be wrong to just dismiss the opportunity to add a player entering his prime with size and production history.

Getzlaf is the type of C Kane would flourish with I believe is not too old for the long range plans for this club at all. If you have the chance to add an elite player , with size at a cost you agree with you have to be assertive.

Slim chance though , but Getzlaf for Enstrom , straight up? and you say no? Yikes ... hole or no hole on D , that would solidify the C spot and you have Scheifele and Sutter knocking on the door in a year or two , that builds you the right way for the long term imo.
I agree. And I'm not sure many other teams can offer an Enstrom/Burmi deal. Enstrom straight up wouldn't be enough. But Burmi might be too much of an add, imo.

Getz would be a 10 year/$60+ million guy though, based on what we've seen in free agency so far.

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07-07-2012, 09:07 PM
  #44
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I agree. And I'm not sure many other teams can offer an Enstrom/Burmi deal. Enstrom straight up wouldn't be enough. But Burmi might be too much of an add, imo.

Getz would be a 10 year/$60+ million guy though, based on what we've seen in free agency so far.
I don't think that amount of money would or should be an issue , for the right player(s). They are paying Jokinen 4.5 , a Getzlaf type would be worth the next tier imo. The Jets want to win a cup , not be "ok" , management and ownership realize to do that they will have to compete salary wise, again I don't see that as an issue for the right player(s).

I realize I have a different view than many , but I wonder where Enstrom and Burmistrov fit in on this team down the road. Now I value them and by no means would give them away for less than a fair return , but if the possibility to add a Ryan Getzlaf , or his type arrives I strongly believe the Jets would seriously contemplate using assets such as those 2 players ( and Bryan Little ) to acquire that said player.

I am a big proponent of elite talent that is highly competitive and when you have that in a Stanley Cup winning large Center who is 27 if and it is a big if , that player is available , you explore the possibilities to add him to your team.

Summer dreams probably though , still....

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07-07-2012, 10:20 PM
  #45
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Look, if we think Getzlaf is going to put us over the top, do the trade. Heck if we can pick him up in a year, we give up nothing, and that puts us over the top then I say sign him.

I for one don't think either of those things is true. Getzlaf is not going to get us the cup. If we think we are on the verge of winning the cup then why are we saying we need to trade Hainsey at the deadline for picks. We should be saying trade our picks for an upgrade on defense? Why are we even talking about a top pairing Dman?

Getzlaf is a fantastic player, a great player, but he needs to go to a New York, maybe a St. Louis, a team on the verge of the cup. I don't want to be tying up money and a spot on a guy who will be getting worse when the rest of the team is getting better.

If we could do an Enstrom for Duchene (been beaten to death) or someone similiar who would fit into the age group of our core it would make more sense.

Besides, between Burmi, Scheifele, Sutter, and Cormier I think we have more potential improvement at center than any other position in the organization. I actually really like the way our forward group is shaping up and am not nearly as convinced as most that if we trade Enstrom it should be for top six help.

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07-07-2012, 10:39 PM
  #46
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You would not trade Enstrom for Getzlaf if Getzlaf wanted to be here? Oh ... ok then.
Totally agree, i'm an Enstrom fan, but wow, i would trade him in a heartbeat even up for Getzlaf.

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07-08-2012, 02:21 AM
  #47
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a Stanley Cup winning large Center who is 27
If that's what you want, why not shift Buff up to C. He's 27, he's bigger than big (6'5 260 - let's hope it's more like 240 this year!).

I notice all you guys are having fun projecting top lines with Getzlaf in the mix, but nobody seems to be fiddling with the defensive pairings. I think they don't look too nice with a Toby-sized hole. I've seen a couple of you guys come up with some genius fantasy moves in the past. This isn't one of them, even without Burmi. I'll agree that at the moment defense is a position of strength, but it won't be if Toby goes. Ok, maybe he doesn't re-sign with us. If he says so outright before the deadline, then I guess we need to get what we can for him, but I'd rather see us pair him up in a package and get a guy who can replace what he does from the back end.

Honestly though, I don't see this trade working for either side (presuming we DON'T give them Burmi - and we won't). Anaheim's got a decent set of defensemen and even after losing Schultz, their prospects are pretty solid. Unless they think Toby's going to put them over the top on a cup run THIS SEASON, and that they can get to that cup without Getzlaf, why would they pull this trigger?

IF Selanne and Koivu both play this year, it's probably their farewell tour. They've both been flirting with retirement for a while and their scoring will be missed. I say this trade is win-win, as long as it doesn't happen.

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07-08-2012, 05:53 PM
  #48
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If that's what you want, why not shift Buff up to C. He's 27, he's bigger than big (6'5 260 - let's hope it's more like 240 this year!).

I notice all you guys are having fun projecting top lines with Getzlaf in the mix, but nobody seems to be fiddling with the defensive pairings. I think they don't look too nice with a Toby-sized hole. I've seen a couple of you guys come up with some genius fantasy moves in the past. This isn't one of them, even without Burmi. I'll agree that at the moment defense is a position of strength, but it won't be if Toby goes. Ok, maybe he doesn't re-sign with us. If he says so outright before the deadline, then I guess we need to get what we can for him, but I'd rather see us pair him up in a package and get a guy who can replace what he does from the back end.

Honestly though, I don't see this trade working for either side (presuming we DON'T give them Burmi - and we won't). Anaheim's got a decent set of defensemen and even after losing Schultz, their prospects are pretty solid. Unless they think Toby's going to put them over the top on a cup run THIS SEASON, and that they can get to that cup without Getzlaf, why would they pull this trigger?

IF Selanne and Koivu both play this year, it's probably their farewell tour. They've both been flirting with retirement for a while and their scoring will be missed. I say this trade is win-win, as long as it doesn't happen.
Besides the fact Buff has stated multiple times that he does not want to play forward , the real issue with your proposal is the he is in no way a C , that isn't even a remote possibility. Getzlaf is a pipe dream but there is some semblance of a possibility there, Buff at C has no chance . None.

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07-08-2012, 06:28 PM
  #49
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I really dont like this proposal.

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Old
07-08-2012, 11:49 PM
  #50
sting13
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 389
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I don't think the Ducks are in the market for another puck moving defenceman.
They already have Fowler and Souray.

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