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11'/12' Offseason/Trades/Signings: Signings and your proposals.

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Old
07-11-2012, 10:56 AM
  #901
delirium trigger
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
The last two really good goalies that the Leafs have had were free wallets: Curtis Joseph and Ed Belfour. Amongst current goalies, Niklas Backstrom, Antti Niemi, and Jonas Hiller were all free wallets. And the following current goalies were taken 200th or later in the draft:

Pekka Rinne
Henrik Lundqvist
Tim Thomas
Tomas Vokoun
Jaroslav Halak
Evgeni Nabakov
Ed belfour, Tim Thomas was technically drafted but might as well not been, Jonas hiller, niklas backstrom, dwayne roloson, Curtis Joseph, anti Niemi, and more were all undrafted. A goalie picked in the 1st round doesn't impress me until he plays at an elite level. Goalies are rarely picked 1st round and even than they are hit and miss. I don't think fleury has lived up to his 1st over all. He's good, but not that good.

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07-11-2012, 11:00 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
The last two really good goalies that the Leafs have had were free wallets: Curtis Joseph and Ed Belfour. Amongst current goalies, Niklas Backstrom, Antti Niemi, and Jonas Hiller were all free wallets. And the following current goalies were taken 200th or later in the draft:

Pekka Rinne
Henrik Lundqvist
Tim Thomas
Tomas Vokoun
Jaroslav Halak
Evgeni Nabakov
You can also list just as many top caliber goalies that were taken in the 1st round (like Luongo).

How long would you suggest we wait for one of our "free wallets" to take the reins?

I know goalies develop at a different pace but Scrivens will be 26 when camp rolls around, Rynnas just turned 25, do we give these guys another 2-3 years to figure it all out? How much longer do these guys have to be considered "great" goalie prospects?

Should we really let these guys being in the system get in the way of acquiring a true No. 1?

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07-11-2012, 11:00 AM
  #903
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i dont get that vibe. None of his moves has indicated getting younger. Hes bringing in older players still with no real youth movement. Burke cleared out the older players and replaced them with young kids. He stock piled prospects and assets in every possible way.
I get that vibe clearly from Feaster.

He's signing players to 2 year contracts, and has some nice young prospects who should be stepping onto NHL ice the season those contracts are done. He isn't the one who has signed all the guys under contract there.

Wideman is only 29, compare that to Liles age.

Jankowski is a long term, hit for the fences pick.

Many here want him to blow it up, but he's holding onto his Sundin(Iginla) and he already has a top notch keeper who should be good for another couple seasons.

He isn't doing the Oilers tank, he's, like Burke, still setting his goals for the playoffs while he builds up the prospects.

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07-11-2012, 11:02 AM
  #904
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If you think what Feaster is doing is similar to what BUrke has done.... then please stop sharing your opinion. All credibility is lost....
You aren't paying attention to what is going on in Calgary are you?

How much are you reading about their prospect camp this week?

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07-11-2012, 11:03 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
Bozak:
2nd full season in NHL
Age 26
1.5 mil cap hit
pace for 53 points, -7.

Brad Richards:
12th NHL season
age 32
7ish Mil Cap hit
65 points, -1


Bozak isn't a superstar, but he keeps getting better and he provides a lot of value for his price tag. He is young and will continue to improve.

From a statistical standpoint he was very close to B. Richards, the great FA signing from last year. Not to mention, Richards is an NHL veteran playing for a top team in the league and still barely outproduced Bozak.


Bozie was a great signing, don't kid yourself.

The fact that Burke gets all these guys over other GMs shows his strong management ability. Whether or not they work out, time makes that more clear. But you can't argue the fact that he wins the competition between the other 20ish GMs after such players.
I think I didn't say what I meant. He has done great for us and has really helped us but many leaf fans and fans of other teams see him being a #3, maybe #2 center. If we get a #1 center on the leafs he would slide down to #3 most likely. That's what I meant by wasn't a great signing. He won't be a regular on the top line. Right now he is on the top line (and inflating his stats a little) because he is the best of what we have.

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07-11-2012, 11:09 AM
  #906
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Bozak is a good #3 center IMO. He's good on both sides of the ice, and can create some decent offence. I think he can be relied upon to score about 35 pts, while playing well defensively on the third line.

To be honest, I think the only forward addition we should make is a big #1 center. We have good enough players for every other postion: 2-4 C, and wings.

Adding a guy like Doan is a different case, since he brings some leadership to our team. But other than that, I hope Burke stays away from wingers like Bobby Ryan. Rather keep those assets, and go all in when a big time center becomes available.

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07-11-2012, 11:15 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
You aren't paying attention to what is going on in Calgary are you?

How much are you reading about their prospect camp this week?
Not a whole lot. I don't have time to read about every NHL franchise.

However, there isn't much to be excited about for youth in Calgary.... Despite the local media's hype.

Baertschi looks like he might be something.

Backlund is underwhelming in my opinion.

Jankowski is very high risk. I feel that was a bad decision for a team with very little in terms of young prospects. Wait to see what he does outside of Highschool first.


Then wrap all this up with the fact that they have no movement of quality players/prospects in a similar age group.


Their top players (Iggy/Kipper) are already on the decline and will be gone by the time their youth hits their prime.

Their next level of quality is what?

Jaybo: Never hit expectations, has been very underwhelming in Calgary. Soon 30

Cammy: Has been underwhelming for years now. It was a panic move by Calgary and he is also in his 30s.

Tanguay: Has been ok, but once again nothing special and 32-33 years old.

Stajan: LOL

Stempniak: LOL again


Please explain what's exciting here?

They barely have all-stars and the ones they have are on the decline and 35+.

The next group of their core are all late 20s / 30+ and haven't impressed anyone in a number of years... If ever. Not to mention most are overpaid and lack significant trade value.

Then they sign the likes of Wideman for 5 years at 5.5

They have very few young NHLers or prospects to be excited about.

If Backlund/Baertschi are their future.... then ****** for Calgary.


I'm sure I'm missing some prospects who are reasonable.... but it's nothing to be excited about....

Why do you think this compares to Burke's roster/team and the moves he made since being the GM.

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07-11-2012, 11:18 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
I think I didn't say what I meant. He has done great for us and has really helped us but many leaf fans and fans of other teams see him being a #3, maybe #2 center. If we get a #1 center on the leafs he would slide down to #3 most likely. That's what I meant by wasn't a great signing. He won't be a regular on the top line. Right now he is on the top line (and inflating his stats a little) because he is the best of what we have.
You are right... as we know him now he should be a #2 or #3.

However, he keeps getting better and has awesome chemistry with Kessel/Lupul.

The likes of Marc Savard/ Marty St.Louis and many others weren't looked at as top line guys until their late 20s.

Bozie could do that too.

Probably not, but he is def a #2 in a year or two IMO.

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07-11-2012, 11:22 AM
  #909
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Which is funny because he is statistically better than Colin Wilson who some want to use good assets on.
Wilson played most with Legwand and Hornquist, a couple 40-50 pt players, and his corsi quality of competition indicates he played against tougher competition (.557 to bozak's .029). Considering wilson scored at a .51 ppg clip to Bozak's .64 playing with two top-10 linemates....

I have no problem with the assumption that should Wilson have played 1. More than 65 games 2. Played between Kessel and Lupul 3. Played the same minutes and had similar Qualcomp corsi numbers, Wilson would put up better numbers. And I'm a fan of Bozak.

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07-11-2012, 11:24 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
Not a whole lot. I don't have time to read about every NHL franchise.

However, there isn't much to be excited about for youth in Calgary.... Despite the local media's hype.

Baertschi looks like he might be something.

Backlund is underwhelming in my opinion.

Jankowski is very high risk. I feel that was a bad decision for a team with very little in terms of young prospects. Wait to see what he does outside of Highschool first.
...

I'm sure I'm missing some prospects who are reasonable.... but it's nothing to be excited about....

Why do you think this compares to Burke's roster/team and the moves he made since being the GM.
Darryl Sutter resigned December 2010.

Feaster has had 2 drafts.
Burke has had 4 drafts.

Where's Kadri by the way? Still in the AHL?

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07-11-2012, 11:25 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Wilson played most with Legwand and Hornquist, a couple 40-50 pt players, and his corsi quality of competition indicates he played against tougher competition (.557 to bozak's .029). Considering wilson scored at a .51 ppg clip to Bozak's .64 playing with two top-10 linemates....

I have no problem with the assumption that should Wilson have played 1. More than 65 games 2. Played between Kessel and Lupul 3. Played the same minutes and had similar Qualcomp corsi numbers, Wilson would put up better numbers. And I'm a fan of Bozak.
Not to mention Wilson is four years younger than Bozak

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07-11-2012, 11:36 AM
  #912
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You are right... as we know him now he should be a #2 or #3.

However, he keeps getting better and has awesome chemistry with Kessel/Lupul.

The likes of Marc Savard/ Marty St.Louis and many others weren't looked at as top line guys until their late 20s.

Bozie could do that too.

Probably not, but he is def a #2 in a year or two IMO.
I wish I knew what Burke and Co. foresee with him. So far he has done a more than adequate job playing with Kessel and Lupul and I really wonder how much potential the leafs management still see in him. I'm a big believer in having quality players in the middle, but if Burke see's him getting better still, our assets could be used instead to get say Ryan and have quite possibly the best top wingers in the game, 4 players all who have potential to score 30+ and are expected to get at least 20+. If Bozak could improve his defensive game more than it currently is and increase his production a little more (say to 20g 35a consistently) I don't think people would always be trying to replace him.

Question because I'm not good at evaluating players. How different are Bozak and Zajak?

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07-11-2012, 11:38 AM
  #913
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
You are right... as we know him now he should be a #2 or #3.

However, he keeps getting better and has awesome chemistry with Kessel/Lupul.

The likes of Marc Savard/ Marty St.Louis and many others weren't looked at as top line guys until their late 20s.

Bozie could do that too.

Probably not, but he is def a #2 in a year or two IMO.
I'm really glad I'm not the only one saying this.

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07-11-2012, 11:39 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Darryl Sutter resigned December 2010.

Feaster has had 2 drafts.
Burke has had 4 drafts.

Where's Kadri by the way? Still in the AHL?
Look at the trades and drafts Burke has had vs. Feaster, not even comparable . Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

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07-11-2012, 11:41 AM
  #915
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I'm really glad I'm not the only one saying this.
I think we all agree on the same thing here - ideally bozak is our #3 C with #2 long term upside, and McClement is our #4c.

But no, he isn't Marc Savard, etc. that's a stretch - Savard put uP 65 PTs in his 3rd full season at 23 years old... I don't see bozak ever clearing 60

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07-11-2012, 11:53 AM
  #916
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Ed belfour, Tim Thomas was technically drafted but might as well not been, Jonas hiller, niklas backstrom, dwayne roloson, Curtis Joseph, anti Niemi, and more were all undrafted. A goalie picked in the 1st round doesn't impress me until he plays at an elite level. Goalies are rarely picked 1st round and even than they are hit and miss. I don't think fleury has lived up to his 1st over all. He's good, but not that good.
30 Starters last year, all got there a different way. Their avg. age of breaking in as back-up 23.3 years old. Their avg. age becoming a No. 1 is 24.8 years old (this includes late-bloomers like Thomas and Roloson).

No matter how many names you throw out there, Scrivens and Rynnas' time is passing by pretty quickly here, this season is probably make or break for both of them, so I can't see how they can be considered great goalie prospects, and should stand in the way of acquiring a true No. 1.

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07-11-2012, 12:01 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Darryl Sutter resigned December 2010.

Feaster has had 2 drafts.
Burke has had 4 drafts.

Where's Kadri by the way? Still in the AHL?
So you are going to completely ignore what I said and then take a shot a 21 year old who IMO is developing very nicely?

Good counter argument.

What about comparing the trades Burke has made?
What about the FA signings.

Burke was forced to sign more FA guys because the team he came to was absolute crap with no quality vets. He needed someone to play while developing youth...

IN addtion, Burke hasn't made any terrible FA signings since his 1st/2nd year where he needed to fill roster spots.



Just

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07-11-2012, 12:03 PM
  #918
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I'm really glad I'm not the only one saying this.
The inability to look past the present time and the way people look at a player in current form and act like nothing can change is foolish around here.

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07-11-2012, 12:04 PM
  #919
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I think we all agree on the same thing here - ideally bozak is our #3 C with #2 long term upside, and McClement is our #4c.

But no, he isn't Marc Savard, etc. that's a stretch - Savard put uP 65 PTs in his 3rd full season at 23 years old... I don't see bozak ever clearing 60
I could see him evolving into a 65+-point guy if he were to keep playing with Lupul and Kessel. Add a good two-way game and you're looking at similar production to guys like Bergeron, Krejci, and recently Mike Richards. Concerns about his size seem strange, as he's 6'1 and almost 200 lbs.

Again, I could see it happening, but that doesn't mean it's likely. You're right, ideally we use him as our #3 behind a newly acquired #1 and Grabo. But if he keeps getting the opportunities that he's getting, I don't think we've seen his potential yet. He's only just finished his 2nd full season in the NHL, and it takes players some time to get used to it. He's already surpassed most expectations though, and I'm really pleased with the kind of player he's been developing into. One of Burke's most under-rated acquisitions.

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07-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Darryl Sutter resigned December 2010.

Feaster has had 2 drafts.
Burke has had 4 drafts.

Where's Kadri by the way? Still in the AHL?
Seriously? Calgary is where we were almost 10 years ago, aging about to retire forwards and goalies, They even have some of our cast offs from then, and would need a miracle to make the playoffs. We had a few great looking prospects than too.. I wouldn't get too excited they have a long and miserable road ahead of them

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07-11-2012, 12:08 PM
  #921
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So you are going to completely ignore what I said and then take a shot a 21 year old who IMO is developing very nicely?

Good counter argument.

What about comparing the trades Burke has made?
What about the FA signings.

Burke was forced to sign more FA guys because the team he came to was absolute crap with no quality vets. He needed someone to play while developing youth...

IN addtion, Burke hasn't made any terrible FA signings since his 1st/2nd year where he needed to fill roster spots.

Just
Excuse me? Burke wasn't forced to do anything.

Listen I'm not saying the Flames (who missed the playoffs by 5 points in 9th. spot, and by 3 points in 10th. spot) are ahead of the Leafs in their rebuild. I'm saying Feaster is trying to rebuild while being competitive. Burke's goal this year and last year was the make the playoffs and while rebuilding. He claimed he could do it in less than 5 years, so why don't we give Feaster the same number of drafts to compare?

Calgary still has a better team than the Leafs, even if the Leafs are 2 years ahead in their rebuild.

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07-11-2012, 12:09 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Darryl Sutter resigned December 2010.

Feaster has had 2 drafts.
Burke has had 4 drafts.

Where's Kadri by the way? Still in the AHL?
Gotta disagree with you on this one unfortunately ULF. As a fellow resident of Calgary I follow the Flames fairly well and I see Feaster's moves more reminiscent of JFJ than Burke

He's already working tight against the cap (I think), has made very little attempts to acquire younger assets for an already decimated prospect pool (to his credit he hasn't traded away any 1st rounders yet), signing questionable contracts (Hudler is eerily similar to the Jason Blake fiasco in that they both hit career highs in goals in their contract years), and overall their roster seems to be mis-mashed together

The justification for the actions taken by Feaster would be more explicable if Calgary was trying to be a Cup contender. But instead, he's made these moves just to get over the hump.

Sounds familiar, no?

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07-11-2012, 12:16 PM
  #923
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Excuse me? Burke wasn't forced to do anything.

Listen I'm not saying the Flames (who missed the playoffs by 5 points in 9th. spot, and by 3 points in 10th. spot) are ahead of the Leafs in their rebuild. I'm saying Feaster is trying to rebuild while being competitive. Burke's goal this year and last year was the make the playoffs and while rebuilding. He claimed he could do it in less than 5 years, so why don't we give Feaster the same number of drafts to compare?

Calgary still has a better team than the Leafs, even if the Leafs are 2 years ahead in their rebuild.
If by better you mean older than I agree

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07-11-2012, 12:18 PM
  #924
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Excuse me? Burke wasn't forced to do anything.

Listen I'm not saying the Flames (who missed the playoffs by 5 points in 9th. spot, and by 3 points in 10th. spot) are ahead of the Leafs in their rebuild. I'm saying Feaster is trying to rebuild while being competitive. Burke's goal this year and last year was the make the playoffs and while rebuilding. He claimed he could do it in less than 5 years, so why don't we give Feaster the same number of drafts to compare?

Calgary still has a better team than the Leafs, even if the Leafs are 2 years ahead in their rebuild.
We don't give Feaster the same amount of drafts because he inherited a better team than Burke did. What did Burke have once he came here? Kaberle? Kulemin? Gunnarsson?

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07-11-2012, 12:19 PM
  #925
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Gotta disagree with you on this one unfortunately ULF. As a fellow resident of Calgary I follow the Flames fairly well and I see Feaster's moves more reminiscent of JFJ than Burke

He's already working tight against the cap (I think), has made very little attempts to acquire younger assets for an already decimated prospect pool (to his credit he hasn't traded away any 1st rounders yet), signing questionable contracts (Hudler is eerily similar to the Jason Blake fiasco in that they both hit career highs in goals in their contract years), and overall their roster seems to be mis-mashed together

The justification for the actions taken by Feaster would be more explicable if Calgary was trying to be a Cup contender. But instead, he's made these moves just to get over the hump.

Sounds familiar, no?
I agree with what you are saying, but Feaster is trying to restock their prospects within the parameters of remaining competitive. Kind of like when Burke showed up and thought he could throw Beauchemin and Komisarek at the problems (crap coach) and throw 2*1st.+2nd. at a lack of skill up front and things would take off.

Funny all the excuses we can provide for Burke, and none of anyone else.

I'm not sure who I'd rate higher Kadri or Baertschi today. Give him another year and development and it might not be close. That was first 1st. for Burke and Feaster.

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