HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

11'/12' Offseason/Trades/Signings: Signings and your proposals.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-11-2012, 12:28 PM
  #926
mydnyte
Registered User
 
mydnyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Excuse me? Burke wasn't forced to do anything.

Listen I'm not saying the Flames (who missed the playoffs by 5 points in 9th. spot, and by 3 points in 10th. spot) are ahead of the Leafs in their rebuild. I'm saying Feaster is trying to rebuild while being competitive. Burke's goal this year and last year was the make the playoffs and while rebuilding. He claimed he could do it in less than 5 years, so why don't we give Feaster the same number of drafts to compare?

Calgary still has a better team than the Leafs, even if the Leafs are 2 years ahead in their rebuild.
no, they dont, they have a better goalie who had an amazing year. ...without Kipper, Calgary would have been fighting the Jackets for dead last.

mydnyte is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 12:31 PM
  #927
BertCorbeau
Moderator
The Sidebartender
 
BertCorbeau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I agree with what you are saying, but Feaster is trying to restock their prospects within the parameters of remaining competitive. Kind of like when Burke showed up and thought he could throw Beauchemin and Komisarek at the problems (crap coach) and throw 2*1st.+2nd. at a lack of skill up front and things would take off.

Funny all the excuses we can provide for Burke, and none of anyone else.

I'm not sure who I'd rate higher Kadri or Baertschi today. Give him another year and development and it might not be close. That was first 1st. for Burke and Feaster.
The Flames remain competitive so long as they have Iggy and Kipper playing, and playing at a high level .. That window is closing, and therein lies the crux of the dilemma with the Flames. Given their extremely shallow prospect pool, they could turn around a lot quicker without Iggy and Kipper if they trade them and salvage some value. If they retire or walk as an UFA, the Flames are screwed.

Burke's biggest problem, and what haters feed on, is that he has too much ego to admit that when he arrived he overvalued the team he had. When he came in the team just missed the playoffs, so adding a dynamic scorer in Kessel and signing Komi and Beauch seemingly could get them over the hump. At the same time, Burke could rework the roster around that 'core'. Evidently it was a failure, but Burke refused to admit so. I, personally, don't give a **** anymore because that was 3-4 years ago .. his moves since have gone leaps and bounds to improve the team in the long term and we shouldn't have to wait too long to see results.

BertCorbeau is online now  
Old
07-11-2012, 12:33 PM
  #928
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 55,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
no, they dont, they have a better goalie who had an amazing year. ...without Kipper, Calgary would have been fighting the Jackets for dead last.
I realize the goaltender is part of the team.

I realize if the Leafs had Kipper they'd have made the playoffs.

I think even with a good coach they'd have made the playoffs, but the coach is part of the team as well.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
ULF_55 is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 12:39 PM
  #929
416Leafer
Registered User
 
416Leafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Excuse me? Burke wasn't forced to do anything.

Listen I'm not saying the Flames (who missed the playoffs by 5 points in 9th. spot, and by 3 points in 10th. spot) are ahead of the Leafs in their rebuild. I'm saying Feaster is trying to rebuild while being competitive. Burke's goal this year and last year was the make the playoffs and while rebuilding. He claimed he could do it in less than 5 years, so why don't we give Feaster the same number of drafts to compare?

Calgary still has a better team than the Leafs, even if the Leafs are 2 years ahead in their rebuild.
Feaster inherited a team with Iginla, Kipper, and Bouwmeester as its three best players.

Burke inherited a team with Ponikerovsky, Kubina, and Kaberle as its three best players.

Theres absolutely no comparison. Ive criticized Burke a ton, but Feaster had a way better starting point than Burke did. Subtract your three best players going into the 2010-2011 season, and thats comparable to Burkes starting point.

416Leafer is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 12:56 PM
  #930
tpc77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 934
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Excuse me? Burke wasn't forced to do anything.

Listen I'm not saying the Flames (who missed the playoffs by 5 points in 9th. spot, and by 3 points in 10th. spot) are ahead of the Leafs in their rebuild. I'm saying Feaster is trying to rebuild while being competitive. Burke's goal this year and last year was the make the playoffs and while rebuilding. He claimed he could do it in less than 5 years, so why don't we give Feaster the same number of drafts to compare?

Calgary still has a better team than the Leafs, even if the Leafs are 2 years ahead in their rebuild.
No, but he had to do something. You remember that roster don't you? It was not great....

The flames are not better. They have a better goalie, which makes them better.


Not to mention Burke has acquired:

Our top offensive player who is 24 (Kessel)
A top 2 winger with PPG ability 28 (Lupul)
A top D prospect and likely future stud 21 (Gardiner)
Our captain and current best D 26 (Phaneuf)
Acquired a recent #2 pick 23 (JVR)
Free-Agent with upside left 26 (Bozak)
Top prospect with size/skill 21(Colborne)
PWF prospect who upside 20(Ashton)
Stop gap with value 27 (Macarthur)


Then there are his draft picks who are about to come into the NHL system

Rielly
Biggs
Percy
Finn
Kadri
D'amigo
Blacker
Mckegg
Ross

Then what he inherited that has value and is still here developing

Grabo
Kuli
Frattin
Reimer
Holzer


If Feaster ever has a list of acquisitions like BUrke's that suggest rebuild then it becomes closer

Then if he can boast a quality list of draft picks like Burke has put together it becomes closer again.



There's just something about holding onto 35+ year old stars and trading/signing to acquire the likes of Cammy/Tanguay/Jokinen/Wideman/Stempniak/Hudler while having no real prospect pool that makes me cringe at the comparison of what Burke has done and what Feaster is trying to do.....


Yes, I know it's 3.5 years to 2 years in time..... but still.

Do you think Feaster will have a similar track record and depth in their systmen in 1.5 years from now?

tpc77 is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 01:07 PM
  #931
Barilko14
Registered User
 
Barilko14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Renfrew, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,403
vCash: 500
Fantasy trade (i.e. not going to happen)

To Tor: Getzlaf, Perry

To Ana: Kessel, Grabovski, Kuelmin

Barilko14 is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 01:13 PM
  #932
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 55,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
No, but he had to do something. You remember that roster don't you? It was not great....

The flames are not better. They have a better goalie, which makes them better.


Not to mention Burke has acquired:

Our top offensive player who is 24 (Kessel)
A top 2 winger with PPG ability 28 (Lupul)
A top D prospect and likely future stud 21 (Gardiner)
Our captain and current best D 26 (Phaneuf)
Acquired a recent #2 pick 23 (JVR)
Free-Agent with upside left 26 (Bozak)
Top prospect with size/skill 21(Colborne)
PWF prospect who upside 20(Ashton)
Stop gap with value 27 (Macarthur)


Then there are his draft picks who are about to come into the NHL system

Rielly
Biggs
Percy
Finn
Kadri
D'amigo
Blacker
Mckegg
Ross

Then what he inherited that has value and is still here developing

Grabo
Kuli
Frattin
Reimer
Holzer


If Feaster ever has a list of acquisitions like BUrke's that suggest rebuild then it becomes closer

Then if he can boast a quality list of draft picks like Burke has put together it becomes closer again.



There's just something about holding onto 35+ year old stars and trading/signing to acquire the likes of Cammy/Tanguay/Jokinen/Wideman/Stempniak/Hudler while having no real prospect pool that makes me cringe at the comparison of what Burke has done and what Feaster is trying to do.....


Yes, I know it's 3.5 years to 2 years in time..... but still.

Do you think Feaster will have a similar track record and depth in their systmen in 1.5 years from now?
I have no idea what the Leafs or Flames will look like in 2 years.

Do you think Burke thought he'd have the pathetic finishes he's had the past 3 seasons? Okay, we know the answer is no, because he made the Kessel deal and said they discussed worst case scenario and that worst case scenario happened. So that finish was not expected, it was worst case.

You are saying to level the playing field we'll use 4 Burke drafts to compare to 2 Feaster drafts.

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 01:15 PM
  #933
hdtrax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barilko14 View Post
Fantasy trade (i.e. not going to happen)

To Tor: Getzlaf, Perry

To Ana: Kessel, Grabovski, Kuelmin
Toronto would need to go ++++ for Anaheim to even consider it.

People act like Perry isn't a year removed from a Hart Trophy campaign and that Getzlaf isn't one of the most premier centers in the league (obviously not ripping on you since its a fantasy trade) but let's not kid ourselves. Anaheim would have to be high on bath salts to even look at moving those guys for anything short of a coup.

hdtrax is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 01:41 PM
  #934
Barilko14
Registered User
 
Barilko14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Renfrew, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don Draper View Post
Toronto would need to go ++++ for Anaheim to even consider it.

People act like Perry isn't a year removed from a Hart Trophy campaign and that Getzlaf isn't one of the most premier centers in the league (obviously not ripping on you since its a fantasy trade) but let's not kid ourselves. Anaheim would have to be high on bath salts to even look at moving those guys for anything short of a coup.
Yeah, the only way it makes sense (even in fantasy land) is if Kessel = Perry (or close to it). Then Grabo/Kule = Getzlaf.

You know Burke would be wondering what's going to happen in Anahiem, and if there is any way he could pry Getzlaf or the two of them out of Anahiem.

Anahiem may be shooting themselves in the foot with how they are handling Ryan. Getz and Perry took discounts the last time they signed because they were just coming off a Cup and wanted to keep the team together, I doubt that happens twice.

Doubt Anahiem gets blown up, but the very very remote chance exists for a Phiily style re-tool, especially with the lack of forward depth in the organization after the big 3 (esp. when the super Finns retire).

Barilko14 is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 01:41 PM
  #935
delirium trigger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don Draper View Post
Toronto would need to go ++++ for Anaheim to even consider it.

People act like Perry isn't a year removed from a Hart Trophy campaign and that Getzlaf isn't one of the most premier centers in the league (obviously not ripping on you since its a fantasy trade) but let's not kid ourselves. Anaheim would have to be high on bath salts to even look at moving those guys for anything short of a coup.
Ok, well throw in a tasty hobo too

delirium trigger is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 01:42 PM
  #936
BertCorbeau
Moderator
The Sidebartender
 
BertCorbeau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don Draper View Post
Toronto would need to go ++++ for Anaheim to even consider it.

People act like Perry isn't a year removed from a Hart Trophy campaign and that Getzlaf isn't one of the most premier centers in the league (obviously not ripping on you since its a fantasy trade) but let's not kid ourselves. Anaheim would have to be high on bath salts to even look at moving those guys for anything short of a coup.
Challenge accepted...

Must go to Anaheim now .. For undisclosed reasons

You all heard nothing!!

BertCorbeau is online now  
Old
07-11-2012, 02:11 PM
  #937
Grant
LL Genius
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,789
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
Challenge accepted...

Must go to Anaheim now .. For undisclosed reasons

You all heard nothing!!
One morning I walked downstairs and I saw a gift bag with a weird bottle thing in it for as a gift for one of my parent's friends. Decided to look at what the the weird bottle was, it contained bath salts. Then I proceed to the kitchen. Front page of the paper sitting on the table talking about bath salts being used as a drug. My mom insists it was just a spa type item gift. I found it pretty funny haha.

Grant is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 02:30 PM
  #938
mydnyte
Registered User
 
mydnyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barilko14 View Post
Fantasy trade (i.e. not going to happen)

To Tor: Getzlaf, Perry

To Ana: Kessel, Grabovski, Kuelmin
Just make it a Fantasy UFA signing next off season...

To Tor as UFA: Getzlaf, Perry

To Tor, because they are already here:Kessel, Grabovski, Kuelmin

top lines:

Perry - Getzlaf - Kessel
JVR - Grabo - Lupul

mydnyte is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 02:32 PM
  #939
thepatient
Registered User
 
thepatient's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
Just make it a Fantasy UFA signing next off season...

To Tor as UFA: Getzlaf, Perry

To Tor, because they are already here:Kessel, Grabovski, Kuelmin

top lines:

Perry - Getzlaf - Kessel
JVR - Grabo - Lupul
I know its fantasy but...damn thatd be nice

thepatient is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 02:36 PM
  #940
mydnyte
Registered User
 
mydnyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepatient View Post
I know its fantasy but...damn thatd be nice
there is a reason most of our players contracts expire after this season, and they are one of the reasons.

mydnyte is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 03:26 PM
  #941
leugangen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
Just make it a Fantasy UFA signing next off season...

To Tor as UFA: Getzlaf, Perry

To Tor, because they are already here:Kessel, Grabovski, Kuelmin

top lines:

Perry - Getzlaf - Kessel
JVR - Grabo - Lupul
Best top six in the league next to Pittsburgh.

leugangen is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 03:33 PM
  #942
DirtyDion03
**** Brooklyn
 
DirtyDion03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,250
vCash: 166
I'd rather do

JVR - Getzlaf - Perry
Lupul - Grabovski - Kessel

Perry is better on the right side, and Lupul is better on the left side.

DirtyDion03 is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 03:48 PM
  #943
Asif16*
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,080
vCash: 500
wow its gotten to a point where people are making fantasy trades and signings. CMON BURKE DO SOMETHING!!!

Asif16* is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 03:53 PM
  #944
BertCorbeau
Moderator
The Sidebartender
 
BertCorbeau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asif16 View Post
wow its gotten to a point where people are making fantasy trades and signings. CMON BURKE DO SOMETHING!!!
Two months until just camp starts .. She'll be a looooooooooong summer

BertCorbeau is online now  
Old
07-11-2012, 04:05 PM
  #945
Calacatz
Pak-trick!
 
Calacatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
I'd rather do

JVR - Getzlaf - Perry
Lupul - Grabovski - Kessel

Perry is better on the right side, and Lupul is better on the left side.
You would be looking at roughly 37mil of cap hit there...
If they could make the rest of the line up work that would be SIK!!
For cap relief tho I would move Grabo and keep Bozak/Kadri or Colbourne there who I think would gel better with Kessel and lupes anyways!

Calacatz is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 04:13 PM
  #946
JMcLeaf
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
JMcLeaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: ♫d(-_-)b♫
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 17,480
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asif16 View Post
wow its gotten to a point where people are making fantasy trades and signings. CMON BURKE DO SOMETHING!!!
It's like that all year around here

JMcLeaf is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 04:30 PM
  #947
Drew311
Catch The Taste
 
Drew311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,902
vCash: 500
If there is a lockout again this year, can trades happen during the work stoppage?

Drew311 is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 05:21 PM
  #948
Anthrax442
Registered User
 
Anthrax442's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,101
vCash: 551
XLB signed in Boston.

Anthrax442 is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 05:31 PM
  #949
TrueBlue86
Registered User
 
TrueBlue86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3,049
vCash: 500
I was just getting over not getting this guy last year, and now this comes out...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg richards.jpg‎ (78.3 KB, 15 views)

TrueBlue86 is offline  
Old
07-11-2012, 05:34 PM
  #950
TeamBester
Debunked
 
TeamBester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I realize the goaltender is part of the team.

I realize if the Leafs had Kipper they'd have made the playoffs.

I think even with a good coach they'd have made the playoffs, but the coach is part of the team as well.
So, when you said Calgary has a better team, you really meant they have a better goalie?

TeamBester is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.