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11'/12' Offseason/Trades/Signings: Signings and your proposals.

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Old
07-07-2012, 06:02 AM
  #101
thewave
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I agree that lightening the log jam is important, but that's exactly why we should be trading 2-3 roster players for legit 1st line players.


Grabovski+MacArthur+McKegg for Bobby Ryan.

Lupul+Gunnarsson+Bozak for Paul Stastny and Jamie McGinn.


Line-up:
van Riemsdyk - Stastny - Kessel
Kulemin - Kadri/Colborne - Ryan
McGinn - McClement - Frattin
Brown - Steckel - Connolly

Kadri and Colborne compete head-to head for that 2nd line center spot. If they both fail, Connolly goes up from the 4th line.
The Ryan trade you just proposed is more akin to strip mining the talent pool for possibly 0% gain. We dont know grabs ceiling with kessel and lupul, he could hit 80pts. Mac did just hit 30g. Lupul, I am going out on a limb here has great respect for Grabber; considering his OT goal against Montreal was his "fav moment as a leaf". If Grabber has that kind of motivational effect on other players and they signed him 5YRS he aint going anywhere. Remember Carlyles compliment "energizer". That was all to telling, he loves him as a player, period. Core cponent, period.

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07-07-2012, 06:15 AM
  #102
delirium trigger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I agree that lightening the log jam is important, but that's exactly why we should be trading 2-3 roster players for legit 1st line players.


Grabovski+MacArthur+McKegg for Bobby Ryan.

Lupul+Gunnarsson+Bozak for Paul Stastny and Jamie McGinn.


Line-up:
van Riemsdyk - Stastny - Kessel
Kulemin - Kadri/Colborne - Ryan
McGinn - McClement - Frattin
Brown - Steckel - Connolly

Kadri and Colborne compete head-to head for that 2nd line center spot. If they both fail, Connolly goes up from the 4th line.
Wow, that's a terrible team. Everyone blows there wad on the names, ooooh now we have stastny and Ryan. Who cares, that line up is bad, seriously connolly on the 4 line? Kadri as our shut down C? Colborne shouldn't be anywhere near the nhl this year. It's gonna be the exact same, tonnes of goals but the other team overwhelming us and winning.

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07-07-2012, 06:21 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
Wow, that's a terrible team. Everyone blows there wad on the names, ooooh now we have stastny and Ryan. Who cares, that line up is bad, seriously connolly on the 4 line? Kadri as our shut down C? Colborne shouldn't be anywhere near the nhl this year. It's gonna be the exact same, tonnes of goals but the other team overwhelming us and winning.
There will be trades but,

Lups, jvr, kes
Kule, grabs, mac

Then her bottom 6 you have the log jam.

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07-07-2012, 06:57 AM
  #104
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Say goodbye to Franson today.

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07-07-2012, 07:06 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
The Ryan trade you just proposed is more akin to strip mining the talent pool for possibly 0% gain. We dont know grabs ceiling with kessel and lupul, he could hit 80pts. Mac did just hit 30g. Lupul, I am going out on a limb here has great respect for Grabber; considering his OT goal against Montreal was his "fav moment as a leaf". If Grabber has that kind of motivational effect on other players and they signed him 5YRS he aint going anywhere. Remember Carlyles compliment "energizer". That was all to telling, he loves him as a player, period. Core cponent, period.
22 and 20. Stripping the talent pool for 0 gain? You'd be getting back a real, consistent 35 goal scorer. Also, Grabs has been tried a few times with Kessel and Lupul. They don't seem to gel well.

Odd that you consider Bobby Ryan 0% talent, yet Mac is a 30g guy.


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Say goodbye to Franson today.
Why is that?

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07-07-2012, 07:08 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
The Ryan trade you just proposed is more akin to strip mining the talent pool for possibly 0% gain. We dont know grabs ceiling with kessel and lupul, he could hit 80pts. Mac did just hit 30g. Lupul, I am going out on a limb here has great respect for Grabber; considering his OT goal against Montreal was his "fav moment as a leaf". If Grabber has that kind of motivational effect on other players and they signed him 5YRS he aint going anywhere. Remember Carlyles compliment "energizer". That was all to telling, he loves him as a player, period. Core cponent, period.
What? Macs career high in goals is 21... He has never ever hit 30...

Not to mention he's 27 years old, Grabo is 28.

Bobby Ryan is 25, has hit 30 goals every season of his career, and has size. He's already easily the best player in the trade, and also the only one with decent upside left.

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Old
07-07-2012, 07:20 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
The Ryan trade you just proposed is more akin to strip mining the talent pool for possibly 0% gain. We dont know grabs ceiling with kessel and lupul, he could hit 80pts. Mac did just hit 30g. Lupul, I am going out on a limb here has great respect for Grabber; considering his OT goal against Montreal was his "fav moment as a leaf". If Grabber has that kind of motivational effect on other players and they signed him 5YRS he aint going anywhere. Remember Carlyles compliment "energizer". That was all to telling, he loves him as a player, period. Core cponent, period.
Yeah, giving up two of our older players and a mediocre prosect is "strip mining" the talent pool....

Grabovski's has hit his ceiling - he's a good 50-60 point 2nd line center. He is a very good player on this team, and you would ideally like to keep him and add around him. The problem is that you can't just trade a bunch of garbage and expect to get elite level talent coming back. If it takes Grabovski to bring in a player like Bobby Ryan, you have to deal him.

MacArthur has never even been close to 30 goals. He's a decent player, but he's probably the first guy that has to go when you're talking about clearing a logjam. Subtracting him from the line-up just means you get to add Kadri in, and that has to be taken into account. You subtract Grabovski and MacArthur, and you add Ryan and Kadri.

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07-07-2012, 07:22 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
Wow, that's a terrible team. Everyone blows there wad on the names, ooooh now we have stastny and Ryan. Who cares, that line up is bad, seriously connolly on the 4 line? Kadri as our shut down C? Colborne shouldn't be anywhere near the nhl this year. It's gonna be the exact same, tonnes of goals but the other team overwhelming us and winning.
Yeah, Kadri on the 2nd line, flanked by Bobby Ryan, makes him the shut-down center?

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07-07-2012, 07:26 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by AndMat View Post
Say goodbye to Franson today.
What's up with Fransen????????

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07-07-2012, 07:31 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Yeah, Kadri on the 2nd line, flanked by Bobby Ryan, makes him the shut-down center?
Well both burke and carlyle use the 2nd line against the other teams 1st line to "shut them down" so yah, and that's why kadri won't work there. Saying Grabo is just a 50 point player is pretty ignorant, his ability to shut down isnt elite, but very good, and hard to find. Kadri isn't that guy, and honestly probably not even an nhl center but a winger


Last edited by delirium trigger: 07-07-2012 at 07:40 AM.
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07-07-2012, 07:31 AM
  #111
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Even still 60pt getter and Grabs with potential to get 80 for Ryan. I would trade Mac generally speaking but not Grabs. He is core component material. I would sooner do this,

Lup, x, kes
Jvr, grab, x
Kule, con, mac
Brown, mc, frattin

X- col, kad or more likely trades made.

If Frattin starts finishing this year he wings second with grabs

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07-07-2012, 07:33 AM
  #112
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What's up with Fransen????????
I'm not sure there was any substance to that - Franson was just yesterday quoted as saying he was in negotiations with the Leafs for a contract. That usually indicates they've told him they want him..... I think.

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07-07-2012, 07:39 AM
  #113
dubplatepressure
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Yeah, giving up two of our older players and a mediocre prosect is "strip mining" the talent pool....

Grabovski's has hit his ceiling - he's a good 50-60 point 2nd line center. He is a very good player on this team, and you would ideally like to keep him and add around him. The problem is that you can't just trade a bunch of garbage and expect to get elite level talent coming back. If it takes Grabovski to bring in a player like Bobby Ryan, you have to deal him.

MacArthur has never even been close to 30 goals. He's a decent player, but he's probably the first guy that has to go when you're talking about clearing a logjam. Subtracting him from the line-up just means you get to add Kadri in, and that has to be taken into account. You subtract Grabovski and MacArthur, and you add Ryan and Kadri.
I'm ok with the Grabovski+MacArthur+McKegg for Bobby Ryan, in theory. What this does is open our #2C slot up to either Kadri, Colborne, Connolly, or someone else via trade. It's not a bad thing.

It would be critical from here though that we deal for a top-6C, by moving guys like Kulemin, Franson, Gunnar, etc. ANd i'm not so sure about the Lupul+Gunnarsson+Bozak for Paul Stastny and Jamie McGinn - lot of risk there if Stastny remains a 55-60 pt guy.

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Old
07-07-2012, 07:41 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
I'm ok with the Grabovski+MacArthur+McKegg for Bobby Ryan, in theory. What this does is open our #2C slot up to either Kadri, Colborne, Connolly, or someone else via trade. It's not a bad thing.

It would be critical from here though that we deal for a top-6C, by moving guys like Kulemin, Franson, Gunnar, etc. ANd i'm not so sure about the Lupul+Gunnarsson+Bozak for Paul Stastny and Jamie McGinn - lot of risk there if Stastny remains a 55-60 pt guy.
Kadri, colborne or connolly as second line C is a terrible thing.

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07-07-2012, 07:48 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
Well both burke and carlyle use the 2nd line against the other teams 1st line to "shut them down" so yah,
Actually, Randy Carlyle has always been a 3rd line match-up guy. Sammy Pahlsson ring a bell?

It was Ron Wilson who used Grabovski. When Carlyle arrived, it was right to David Steckel in most match-up situations. This season, Jay McClement will be Carlyle's go-to guy.


... so yah ...

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07-07-2012, 07:55 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Actually, Randy Carlyle has always been a 3rd line match-up guy. Sammy Pahlsson ring a bell?

It was Ron Wilson who used Grabovski. When Carlyle arrived, it was right to David Steckel in most match-up situations. This season, Jay McClement will be Carlyle's go-to guy.


... so yah ...
When you have additional depth you could build the 4th to do normally his 3rd would do... Its a line number which you can utilize when you want... This isnt pairs tennis where you know your opponent before the match. Not like they stop game to make sure your pretty lines match up.

So, yah...

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07-07-2012, 07:56 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
I'm ok with the Grabovski+MacArthur+McKegg for Bobby Ryan, in theory. What this does is open our #2C slot up to either Kadri, Colborne, Connolly, or someone else via trade. It's not a bad thing.
Hopefully, one of Kadri or Colborne grab the role, but if not, Connolly could survive there for a season.

Quote:
It would be critical from here though that we deal for a top-6C, by moving guys like Kulemin, Franson, Gunnar, etc. ANd i'm not so sure about the Lupul+Gunnarsson+Bozak for Paul Stastny and Jamie McGinn - lot of risk there if Stastny remains a 55-60 pt guy.
Stastny is mainly a playmaker, so his points are strongly influenced by his wingers. He scored 20 goals every year, but his assists fluctuate with his linemates. Ever since Chris Stewart was moved, he's had some really weak wingers. His style is an absolutely perfect match for Kessel. He's mainly a playmaker. He's good defensively and he does a lot of good work along the boards and in the corners. Just seems like a really good match in my opinion.

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07-07-2012, 07:59 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Hopefully, one of Kadri or Colborne grab the role, but if not, Connolly could survive there for a season.



Stastny is mainly a playmaker, so his points are strongly influenced by his wingers. He scored 20 goals every year, but his assists fluctuate with his linemates. Ever since Chris Stewart was moved, he's had some really weak wingers. His style is an absolutely perfect match for Kessel. He's mainly a playmaker. He's good defensively and he does a lot of good work along the boards and in the corners. Just seems like a really good match in my opinion.
Stastny makes way more sense. The Grabber thing aint flying, id eat my boot if he was in plat

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07-07-2012, 08:02 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
When you have additional depth you could build the 4th to do normally his 3rd would do... Its a line number which you can utilize when you want... This isnt pairs tennis where you know your opponent before the match. Not like they stop game to make sure your pretty lines match up.

So, yah...
Agreed that coaches don't always get their desired match-ups, but that's really a different discussion.

So, yah...

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07-07-2012, 08:04 AM
  #120
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Stastny makes way more sense. The Grabber thing aint flying, id eat my boot if he was in plat
I'm sure they aren't shopping him, but I'm also sure they want to be in on Bobby Ryan, and the first thing Anaheim is said to be asking for is a 2nd line center. If they want Ryan, Grabovski is gone...

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07-07-2012, 08:29 AM
  #121
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I'm not sure there was any substance to that - Franson was just yesterday quoted as saying he was in negotiations with the Leafs for a contract. That usually indicates they've told him they want him..... I think.
Yeah! I'm hoping he's brought back. I think he has top 4 potential if he focuses and work hard. He has a very active stick in terms of taking the puck away from opposing forwards and usually makes crisp passes out of the zone. I think Randy might have favored Komisarek over him upon his arrival because he wanted to see what he has in Komisarek and, how he can become his reclamation project. With Schenn gone, there is a spot for Franson if he works hard in training camp. Depth in D is always a plus.

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07-07-2012, 08:33 AM
  #122
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i wonder what franson gets

2.5 ?

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07-07-2012, 08:33 AM
  #123
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I definitely want Franson back. He was not treated well last year by Wilson at all.

If I were in his place I'd be pissed too. He was on a playoff team and a much better team than the Leafs before he came here and still played 80 games, he comes to the Leafs and only gets to play 57 games.

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07-07-2012, 08:37 AM
  #124
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Franson hits the net just as often as Phaneuf misses it, which is saying something. It's such a completely under-acknowledged and under-appreciated part of his game. He is able to get his shot on net, through traffic, accurately. One of the few defenseman I've seen who can do it consistently. Unless he proves without a doubt to not be one of the top 6 defenders in camp, he absolutely has to be on this team.

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07-07-2012, 08:53 AM
  #125
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Franson hits the net just as often as Phaneuf misses it, which is saying something. It's such a completely under-acknowledged and under-appreciated part of his game. He is able to get his shot on net, through traffic, accurately. One of the few defenseman I've seen who can do it consistently. Unless he proves without a doubt to not be one of the top 6 defenders in camp, he absolutely has to be on this team.
With a full season he should be good for 30-40 pts, which is frankly, quite good. I wouldn't be at all disappointed if we saw Franson slot in Gunnarson's role and Gunnarson was moved to either Colorado, San Jose, or another team packaged for an impact player or two.

It's hard to exercise patience in the face of such anticipation for a deal or two.

Moving Grabo is hard, because we're all fond of him, but his contract will make it hard for him to play up to that. He'll have to hit 60~ pts a season for the money to be worth it. Probably doable when he has impact wingers, similar to Stastny.

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