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Kulikov to Edmonton

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Old
07-07-2012, 05:19 PM
  #151
BergyWho37
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Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
Care to go into detail on these money problems or is this 1 more in a long line of retarded money posts that when called out on will never be replied to
Im actually giving these kids a lot credit but as usually Edm fans freak out ! Don't bother giving me a list of teams . I know where cap geek is .. Never Said They Can't but if there as good as I believe .. I feel money can be a problem and hurt feelings if 1 gets payed more comes into effect .... IF they all stay GREAT but to give me Cap numbers is Silly .. not even close to the same numbers when they get to there prime

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07-07-2012, 05:21 PM
  #152
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Florida can't give up Kulikov after letting Garrison go.

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07-07-2012, 05:23 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
Common HF misconception. Edmonton has been rebuilding since trade deadline of the 09-10 season. So in reality the 10-11 and 11-12 seasons arent that long to completely gut a top 5 capspace veteran team and rebuild it. This season the goal is playing meaningful games after christmas with maybe next year making the playoffs (id love this year but im a realist).

From 2006-07 to 2009-10 oilers were doing a calgary and trying anything to stay competitive after a cup run. Led the league in injuries so the owner said tear it down and started that deadline
So Edm. delayed its rebuild until the TDL in 09-10 and then had 3 no.1's in a row (2010-11-12). How many more years do you anticipate your rebuild to take? Is 2012-13 the year the Oilers return to the play offs? 2013-14?

I am asking because I do not understand the Oilers plan. For example, why resign Hemsky and Smith if 2012-13 is a continuation of the rebuild?

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07-07-2012, 05:33 PM
  #154
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This is tricky....
Kulikov trade value is not worth one of the young 4, but at the same time his value is greater than some of the Oilers young talent that has not met expectations (MPS or Omark) or any of Edmontotns marginal vetrans (Horcoff, Jones etc.)

Kulikov trade value is greater than any of Edmontons roster D from last year (with the exception of Smid) or equal to any of Edmontons current prospect defenceman (Schultz)

The only trades I can think off which Florida fans would likley reject anyways is Gagner and a propect (Pitlick, Musil or Klefboom for example) or...
Smid straight across which doesn't work due to Edmontons lack of quality D...

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07-07-2012, 05:36 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
From an Oilers POV not interested unless the price is right.

Already have Smid + Petry + Schultz and then Klefbom coming next year as young d-men and Teubert, Marincin, Gernat, etc. still coming on up on top of that in the next few years.

The Oilers are actually overloaded with young D. This is why they didn't do something stupid like take Murray over Yakupov at the draft. The Oilers could use a guy who's 26-33+ years old old on the backend as a veteran for the next 2-3 years though.

I'd rather just sign someone like Rosival for a couple of years and not give up any assets.

Our pressing need was for a young, offensive minded D-Man, preferably a right handed shot who can move the puck, to grow with our forwards and Schultz basically fits all those needs to a tee.
Do the Oilers sign Rosival and worry about his injury history, or do they wait till TC and see what they have. IMO most of these FA D will be looking for at least a 3yr contract, which is too much for the Oilers. I do agree about the veteran D, but no more then a 2yr contract.

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07-07-2012, 05:45 PM
  #156
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I like Kulikov and wanted EDM to draft him over Paajarvi but I love how some people here say Kulikov is 21 years old with 3 years of NHL experience and is a potential top pairing defenseman while Gagner is 22 years old with 5 years of NHL experience (and 40+ points in each of them btw) is a bust and borderline NHL player and worth a 2nd round pick, If Kulikov can improve why not Sam Gagner? Some of you guys make me laugh Seems like the same people who love to bash Gagner in every thread.

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07-07-2012, 05:51 PM
  #157
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Oilers or any other team for that matter can get back on this at the 2016 trade deadline. That or Kulikov is a Panther for life.

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07-07-2012, 08:16 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Good thing I didn't say that!!

Really, outside of the Big 4, Hemsky, Gagner, Whitney and Smid (I forgot Smid, sorry), who has the value to get an impact player?
Im pretty sure Carolina just traded 3 prospects for an impact player so saying our prospects hold no value in terms of bringing back an impact player is more a case of personal bias than fact.

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07-07-2012, 08:24 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetaOil1993 View Post
I like Kulikov and wanted EDM to draft him over Paajarvi but I love how some people here say Kulikov is 21 years old with 3 years of NHL experience and is a potential top pairing defenseman while Gagner is 22 years old with 5 years of NHL experience (and 40+ points in each of them btw) is a bust and borderline NHL player and worth a 2nd round pick, If Kulikov can improve why not Sam Gagner? Some of you guys make me laugh Seems like the same people who love to bash Gagner in every thread.
The question isn't whether Gagner can improve. The question is why would the Panthers trade Kulikov for a package of Gagner+? The Panthers have a young top-pairing d-man who's upside is extremely high. You don't just trade that away - especially for a downgrade / small soft centerman whom you have no real need for. It just makes no sense. If i am the Panthers i am proposing Kulikov+ for one of the big four rather than Gagner+ for Kulikov.

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07-07-2012, 08:28 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Docgonzo View Post
And none of them have 3 years NHL by the age of 21.
So Gagner has had 5 years in the NHL with no less than 40 points all before turning 23 so by your logic i guess he is better than any prospect out there who is under his age and hasnt played a game in the NHL. That seems sensible I wonder if all the GMs are aware thats how it works so they dont make the mistake of trading for one of those guys.

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07-07-2012, 08:45 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
So Edm. delayed its rebuild until the TDL in 09-10 and then had 3 no.1's in a row (2010-11-12). How many more years do you anticipate your rebuild to take? Is 2012-13 the year the Oilers return to the play offs? 2013-14?

I am asking because I do not understand the Oilers plan. For example, why resign Hemsky and Smith if 2012-13 is a continuation of the rebuild?
Well the rebuild imo ends when the team makes the playoffs. I have hopes for this year (12-13) but more realistically expect them to finish anywhere from 9th-14th. Thats a huge range but the west is just so hard to guage. Looking at teams like Pits or Chicago they randomly had a huge jump, or florida last year as an example. So it could happen with the Oilers or if all the young players continue to improve they will climb the standings but still not good enough unless a team gets hit hard with injuries maybe they can squeek in this year.

Next year (13-14 season) if they are not a playoff team I fire managment and get someone who can take the pieces collected to the next level.

As far as Smyth and Hemsky. Last year both played toughest minutes available and let Eberle and Hall feast on second pairing dmen and forwards. Smyth will play out his 2 years and if he still has gas sign 1 year deals till he retires an oiler. Hemsky is a stop gap till Eberle finishes devleloping. I think Hemsky was part of the plans but then the team won the lottery so no telling what happens with Hemsky after this contract. Until then he plays the tough minutes while the young players continue to develop

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07-07-2012, 08:49 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Bure, he's not an Edm prospect so he doesn't have great potential. Remember, if you weren't drafted 1st overall, you could never be as goo5 or valuable as the big 4......

Gagner+2nd...just wow
Eberle wasnt a first overall and hes the best of the lot so far so not sure what exactly you are trying to say if i were to guess i would assume it would be along the lines of ... I am jealous. I wish my team had those players. It doesnt matter what anyone proposes in an Edmonton trade I wont like it because its not fair that they have so much young talent. Just a guess but i think its not too far off of the truth.

I wouldnt want Kulikov anyway too pricey to get and we have a decent enough D already without him and can afford to wait on some of our prospects to develop. Before all the haters start in on how bad our D was ill point out that we lost a substantial part of our D core for a large part of the season and when they were healthy our record was above .500. Make of that what u will but Edmonton passes thanks anyway OP.

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07-07-2012, 09:27 PM
  #163
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Potential top pairing D men are more difficult to acquire as they are rarer than skilled forwards.

Chicago does not win the cup without Keith, nor the Bruins without Chara,Kings without Doughty, Wings without Lidstrom. I am not sure Kulikov will everbe mentioned as such BUT if the possibility is there, the cost to acquire him will be/should be high.

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07-07-2012, 11:32 PM
  #164
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Dont really want to create a new thread on this as its basically being discussed in here...

But what would Florida fans want from Edmonton if Gudbranson was traded?

I realize its not likely, but still. I like the group of young centers Florida has coming up, I can understand why they wouldnt want to give them up. And I can see why they wouldn't want to give up Kulikov. But maybe Gudbranson would be available for the right price?

What would it take Florida fans?

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07-08-2012, 12:33 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
So Edm. delayed its rebuild until the TDL in 09-10 and then had 3 no.1's in a row (2010-11-12). How many more years do you anticipate your rebuild to take? Is 2012-13 the year the Oilers return to the play offs? 2013-14?

I am asking because I do not understand the Oilers plan. For example, why resign Hemsky and Smith if 2012-13 is a continuation of the rebuild?
KLowe have said this rebuild is a 6 yr plan. We are heading into yr 3 of the rebuild plan.

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Old
07-09-2012, 06:46 AM
  #166
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They would need to give up Gagner at the very least. I could see them giving Omark to Florida as well, but I'm not sure Florida would go for it. They have Goc as a 2nd line C, and he is not a scorer. Gagner can give you 55-60 points at his best IMO...maybe 70 at his very peak if you use him properly as a first line center with good wingers (Yes, I know, I overestimate him, but I still think he has that potential in him). But I still don't think Florida goes for it. Kulikov has the potential to be a #1 Dman; those do not come cheap, nor are they a mere commodity around the league. Look at what SJ gave up for Burns. Coyle (a stud of a prospect), Setoguchi (2nd line winger) and a 1st that turned out to be Zack Wheeler. Kulikov hasn't reached his ceiling, but I still see Florida demanding Gagner and Omark at the very least.

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07-09-2012, 06:51 AM
  #167
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Kulikov for MPS and Gagner. Seems close to me.

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07-09-2012, 07:28 AM
  #168
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Kulikov for MPS and Gagner. Seems close to me.
EDM needs to add

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Old
07-09-2012, 07:54 AM
  #169
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Klefbom and 1st

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Old
07-09-2012, 08:23 AM
  #170
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EDM needs to add
MPS + Gagner is a steep price to pay. What about MPS + Whitney for Kulikov + Matthias?

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07-09-2012, 11:11 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
MPS + Gagner is a steep price to pay. What about MPS + Whitney for Kulikov + Matthias?
No deal from the panthers perspective. I usually avoid these types of threads and let my panther brethren handle it but let me try to explain something better than previous attempts. The panthers need top quality over quantity at this point. Last season we had 9-10 2nd and 3rd line players on our forward lines (Versteeg, Weiss, Flash, Goc, Matthias, Bergy, Upshall, Kopecky, Sammy), and basically scored by committee. However none of those are bonafide PPG players. Coming up the pipeline we have Hubs, Bjugstad, Howden, Shore, Knight, Trochek who all look like they could be top-6 or top-9 guys one day, and then a half dozen other players who may or may not pan out. Obviously some of these players will bust or not pan out, but enough will to solidify our lineup moving forward. However the only first line players are (hopefully at least) Hubs and Bjugstad in all likelihood. The panthers need more top end offense coming through the pipeline in order to assure that their offense will gain potency moving forward.

Thats why Fla is only interested in the Big Four from Edmonton. We need A level offense, and unfortunately no evidence exists to suggest that MPS or Gagner will provide that. I would be more willing to add to Kuli to get one of the Big 4 than I would be to accept a lesser group of solid Edmonton players/prospects. And to the fool who asked why Kuli has first pairing potential but Gagner doesn't have first line potential...you are ignorant my friend. Kuli has already played on our first line at age 21, and was one of the top 5 defensemen in the league last year in the assist category before getting injured and missing significant time. He has gotten better each year, and shows no signs of slowing down. Gagner is 2 years older and has scored 49, 41, 41, 42, and 47 points. In fact he played 7 more games this season than the previous 2, and only mustered an additional 5/6 points. There is little to no evidence to suggest that his offense is improving, and to suggest that it will just magically happen is not supported by any of his current pro level stats.

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