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Luongo XXI - Roberto Royale

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07-07-2012, 11:20 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Have you seen the 3rd lines of the last 2 cup winners?

Big, physical, young 2 way wingers with speed and goal scoring potential are the types of depth that great teams have. Besides Pitt, all the cup winners in recent memories have had 3rd lines which could compete with some team's 1st lines.
LAs 3rd line:

Dwight King - Jarret Stoll - Trevor Lewis
Season Points: 42

Vancouvers 3rd line:

Higgins- Lappierre - Hansen
Season Points: 101

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07-07-2012, 11:21 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I in no way mean this as a dig, but with the parade of unproven goalies that have been through Toronto in recent years, why would guys like Schneider and Markstrom (who I both believe to be legit) hold more value then a proven star goalie? Gustavson, Toskala and Raycroft can all be sited as examples.
I don't think I made my point clear enough. I only meant, given the rebuilding of the Leafs, having a stud prospect goalie like Schneider or Markstrom fits more into the blueprint of where the team is going, compared to Lu. Not talent levels, but just where the team will be in two or three years.

Put it this way: if Schneider or Markstrom were Leaf prospects, there is really no need for a Luongo, who would carry the ball for the next five or six seasons. You would want more of a veteran stopgap to help develop the kids as opposed to someone who is going to be the full time starter until, say, 2019. My opinion, anyway.....

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07-07-2012, 11:23 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Sounds like speculation has lead to false rumors in that respect?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's been no confirmation that Theodore actually vetoed a trade, or that there was ever even some trade offer that Gillis liked or agreed upon?
The Panthers beat writer for the Miami Herald, George Richards, says ESPN has reported it. Idk where, but Richards doesn't talk about potential Panthers acquisitions unless it is accurate. He's 100% reliable.

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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Why in the world did they give Theodore a NTC...
He wants to retire in Fla, as a Panther. He may not want to go all the way to Vancouver just to be a backup, which is what he'd be with Schneider there. He may waive to go somewhere we he'd be a starter, idk. I guess Tallon will try to trade Clemmer now, if Gillis would want him.

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07-07-2012, 11:23 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by pahlsson View Post
lol kessel and luongo aren't even comparable, and you say leafs fans aren't using common sense
I'm using an example that Kessel is a world class player, and so is Luongo. Both aren't the #1 at their position but tops. Both are all stars, and game changers.

I'm not comparing them I'm just using Kessel as an example for proposals sake..it would be like Vancouver offering Sauve + Hansen + 2nd. It's just as ludacris as most of Leafs proposals for Luo

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07-07-2012, 11:24 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
I don't think I made my point clear enough. I only meant, given the rebuilding of the Leafs, having a stud prospect goalie like Schneider or Markstrom fits more into the blueprint of where the team is going, compared to Lu. Not talent levels, but just where the team will be in two or three years.

Put it this way: if Schneider or Markstrom were Leaf prospects, there is really no need for a Luongo, who would carry the ball for the next five or six seasons. You would want more of a veteran stopgap to help develop the kids as opposed to someone who is going to be the full time starter until, say, 2019. My opinion, anyway.....
Just to be clear, Schneider >>> Markstrom. At this point in time, it's actually not even close.

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07-07-2012, 11:24 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Kulemin is a good player but he is redunant.

Where in our line-up is he gonna play?

More than likely on the 3rd line...

That's where Canucks fans want more...do we really need a 3rd line upgrade at the cost of Luongo?
Kulemin is not redundant. He had a bad season, one year after a 30 goal year on a terrible team.

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07-07-2012, 11:24 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
You basically proved my point! Thanks!

I woud have paid that for those young, controllable goalies. I won't pay a top prospect and a possible lottery pick for a 30+ year old with a decade at 5+ million.
So you would pay up big time for young goalies who are complete question marks over a current top 5 goalie?

Maybe you've been watching too much baseball where your GM is constantly trying to acquire picks and youth instead of bringing in good veterans to take the team to another level. Another .500 season for the Jays seem fun eh? Great AA has acquired all these youngsters through the draft and trades but when do you take a step back and realize that potential is potential?

Are Toronto fans THAT used to mediocrity? MLB, NBA, NHL all have been failures for the past 10+ years.

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07-07-2012, 11:25 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
He wants to retire in Fla, as a Panther. He may not want to go all the way to Vancouver just to be a backup, which is what he'd be with Schneider there. He may waive to go somewhere we he'd be a starter, idk. I guess Tallon will try to trade Clemmer now, if Gillis would want him.
Clemmensen would be okay... just wish his term was 1 year instead of 2.

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07-07-2012, 11:27 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by jammyrft View Post
I'm using an example that Kessel is a world class player, and so is Luongo. Both aren't the #1 at their position but tops. Both are all stars, and game changers.

I'm not comparing them I'm just using Kessel as an example for proposals sake..it would be like Vancouver offering Sauve + Hansen + 2nd. It's just as ludacris as most of Leafs proposals for Luo
...

This doesnt make any sense.

If Lou was you and entering his prime and on a reasonable contract like Kessel, then we absolutely would offer Kadri+1st+

completely different situations and not valid for comparison....

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07-07-2012, 11:29 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
So you would pay up big time for young goalies who are complete question marks over a current top 5 goalie?

Maybe you've been watching too much baseball where your GM is constantly trying to acquire picks and youth instead of bringing in good veterans to take the team to another level. Another .500 season for the Jays seem fun eh? Great AA has acquired all these youngsters through the draft and trades but when do you take a step back and realize that potential is potential?

Are Toronto fans THAT used to mediocrity? MLB, NBA, NHL all have been failures for the past 10+ years.
Lol paying 2 second rounders for a young goalie isnt paying up big time. Paying up a top prospect and possible lottery pick for an expensive aging goalie for a young, building team is.

There was a time when Vancouver wasn't at the top...And hey, if you wanna get historical, how many championships has Vancouver won? I didnt want to go there but you insisted...

Not sure why you keep on brining up baseball?

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07-07-2012, 11:29 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
...

This doesnt make any sense.

If Lou was you and entering his prime and on a reasonable contract like Kessel, then we absolutely would offer Kadri+1st+

completely different situations and not valid for comparison....
Luongo's cap hit is reasonable it's the term that freaks everyone out... and that just comes down to if you believe he's actually going to play all 10 years... instead of 6-7 which is far more probably.

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07-07-2012, 11:31 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
I don't think I made my point clear enough. I only meant, given the rebuilding of the Leafs, having a stud prospect goalie like Schneider or Markstrom fits more into the blueprint of where the team is going, compared to Lu. Not talent levels, but just where the team will be in two or three years.

Put it this way: if Schneider or Markstrom were Leaf prospects, there is really no need for a Luongo, who would carry the ball for the next five or six seasons. You would want more of a veteran stopgap to help develop the kids as opposed to someone who is going to be the full time starter until, say, 2019. My opinion, anyway.....
True, but then again, if I were a Leafs fan...I'd be sick of this plan of Burkes.

Schneider would fit Toronto like a glove...but there would need to be a severe upgrade from the deals being offered for Luongo right now, even the good ones.

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07-07-2012, 11:32 PM
  #413
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Thats why I said contract - his cap hit is nice but the term is too much

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07-07-2012, 11:32 PM
  #414
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I really don't get why there's fanbase bashing going on.

Holy Mackinaw's proposals were seen as fair by everyone but a leafs fan so far.

Kadri, 1st, Lombardi holds the most traction with me, as I'd rather try to find a better top-6 winger than Kulemin, and Kadri/1st have the potential to be impact players in a few years on our roster. I have less faith in Kulemin. I don't see that many people being unreasonable.

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07-07-2012, 11:33 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Luongo's cap hit is reasonable it's the term that freaks everyone out... and that just comes down to if you believe he's actually going to play all 10 years... instead of 6-7 which is far more probably.
His interview gave away his plan...to retire before his contract runs out.

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07-07-2012, 11:33 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
So you would pay up big time for young goalies who are complete question marks over a current top 5 goalie?

Maybe you've been watching too much baseball where your GM is constantly trying to acquire picks and youth instead of bringing in good veterans to take the team to another level. Another .500 season for the Jays seem fun eh? Great AA has acquired all these youngsters through the draft and trades but when do you take a step back and realize that potential is potential?

Are Toronto fans THAT used to mediocrity? MLB, NBA, NHL all have been failures for the past 10+ years.
Good God, not going to hijack the thread, but the Jays are doing things exactly how a pro team should. Build from the ground up. Pretty well anyone with any MLB knowlesge knows they are on the cusp of something special in the next couple of years, and it could have been this year had four of their five starters, not to mention their closer, gone down long term.

But again, keep using these ridiculous analogies.....

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07-07-2012, 11:34 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
If he had a bit of a bounce back year, he's easily an option to play on the 2nd with Kesler and be a mainstay on the PK.
So could Raymond, Higgins and Hansen. We need a player who's a clear upgrade on those.

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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Moreover, he's obviously not the only piece you would get, but certainly a worthy two-way, borderline top-six player with good offensive upside. Add a prospect and a pick and I can't see how you expect much more.
I would rather have 1 good piece than 3 ok pieces.
The "good" piece would obviously have less value than Luongo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Have you seen the 3rd lines of the last 2 cup winners?
Already have those wingers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Kulemin is not redundant. He had a bad season, one year after a 30 goal year on a terrible team.
We have similar players, we need an upgrade.

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07-07-2012, 11:34 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
True, but then again, if I were a Leafs fan...I'd be sick of this plan of Burkes.

Schneider would fit Toronto like a glove...but there would need to be a severe upgrade from the deals being offered for Luongo right now, even the good ones.
I cant even imagine what Canuck fans would ask for if Schnieder was involved.

A goalie is a key need for Toronto but I'd rather build from within than sell what few good assets we have for one piece that were missing

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07-07-2012, 11:34 PM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I really don't get why there's fanbase bashing going on.

Holy Mackinaw's proposals were seen as fair by everyone but a leafs fan so far.

Kadri, 1st, Lombardi holds the most traction with me, as I'd rather try to find a better top-6 winger than Kulemin, and Kadri/1st have the potential to be impact players in a few years on our roster. I have less faith in Kulemin. I don't see that many people being unreasonable.
Agreed. I said so on the last page, and when they were proposed. They're not spectacular, but at the same time, I'd be just fine with these kinds of returns. They're not bad at all.

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07-07-2012, 11:35 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
True, but then again, if I were a Leafs fan...I'd be sick of this plan of Burkes.

Schneider would fit Toronto like a glove...but there would need to be a severe upgrade from the deals being offered for Luongo right now, even the good ones.
Totally agree.

Wow. Silva just **** kicked Sonnen.

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07-07-2012, 11:35 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
Lol paying 2 second rounders for a young goalie isnt paying up big time. Paying up a top prospect and possible lottery pick for an expensive aging goalie for a young, building team is.

There was a time when Vancouver wasn't at the top...

Not sure why you keep on brining up baseball?
First of all, everyone is "aging". You sound extremely stupid using that term.

Second of all, Luongo is expensive? In which way is he expensive? He's probably going to retire in 6/7 years. Cap hit comes off the books. Current cap hit is a steal for his calibre of a goalie.

Paying 2 second rounders and a third rounder is pretty much equivalent to a middle-late first round pick. Luongo would easily get you out of a lottery pick situation. If Varlamov got Colorado from the 2nd worst team to 11th, then Luongo can get Leafs from 5th to 15-20th. Which might mean the playoffs.

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07-07-2012, 11:37 PM
  #422
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Why do we need Franson? Our top 6 defenseman are set, and we have K-Conn and Suave as well as those new depth signings we have.
With the way the D is constructed, I believe Tanev to be more of a shut down guy in the making. So grabbing a guy with PP potential who has played with Hamhuis before would be a good idea. Franson as one piece coming back would add competition for the #6 spot. Add a 2nd right hand Dman to the PP pairings.

Luongo Raymond 2nd 2013 for Lombardi Franson Kadri 1st 2013

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07-07-2012, 11:37 PM
  #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
I cant even imagine what Canuck fans would ask for if Schnieder was involved.
Higher....higher....higher....higher....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleSmedsmosStache View Post
A goalie is a key need for Toronto but I'd rather build from within than sell what few good assets we have for one piece that were missing
Schneider would be a great fit, but would cost an arm, a leg, and likely a few other vital body parts. I know Leafs fans wouldn't like what I'd want.

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07-07-2012, 11:43 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Higher....higher....higher....higher....



Schneider would be a great fit, but would cost an arm, a leg, and likely a few other vital body parts. I know Leafs fans wouldn't like what I'd want.
Schneider's value would probably be similar to Varlamov's when he was traded. Obviously Schneider is worth more, but that deal is close to what the real value is.

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07-07-2012, 11:44 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I really don't get why there's fanbase bashing going on.

Holy Mackinaw's proposals were seen as fair by everyone but a leafs fan so far.

Kadri, 1st, Lombardi holds the most traction with me, as I'd rather try to find a better top-6 winger than Kulemin, and Kadri/1st have the potential to be impact players in a few years on our roster. I have less faith in Kulemin. I don't see that many people being unreasonable.
I doubt most Leaf fans are willing to give that up. were frustrated from our playoff failures but weve been burned selling young assets for older players many times and the roster, even with Lou, still has gaping holes. I might be willing to include Kadri but not the 1st, unless it was conditional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Good God, not going to hijack the thread, but the Jays are doing things exactly how a pro team should. Build from the ground up. Pretty well anyone with any MLB knowlesge knows they are on the cusp of something special in the next couple of years, and it could have been this year had four of their five starters, not to mention their closer, gone down long term.

But again, keep using these ridiculous analogies.....
You like the Jays approach, so why are you not okay with the Leafs doing the same? Would you not be mad if the Jays dealt D'Arnaud and other good picks/prospects for a 35 year old starter with 6 years left on his 16 million dollar AAV contract? I mean sure, getting that veteran ace would be a huge boost, but I would rather keep the kids and the money and invest it internally as the Jays have been doing.

its late and that comparison is a bit off but its the best I can do right now lol

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