HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Luongo XXI - Roberto Royale

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-08-2012, 08:53 PM
  #776
EastCoastCanuck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2
vCash: 500
As a Canucks Fan I see people looking to get "now" players for Vancouver from a Luongo trade. Versteeg would be great but I believe is too essential to Fla right now to be moved without a legit scorer to replace him.

In my opinion Petrovic + Floridas' choice of (Shore/Howden/Bjugstad) + cap dump (Santorelli?) I'd love Theodore as insurance on Schneider but feel FLA could prob get a very good pick (value wise) for him from Tor/Chi and would be better served moving him in a seperate deal.

for

Luongo + some sort of draft pick (not 1st)

is about as fair a deal as we could hope for with the two teams situations. Florida isn't in a position to deal their "now" players like Versteeg. Van could seriously use a d prospect like Petrovic (big and mean) and another center prospect with size would be of value. Is Luongo "worth" more? Depends. Yea I think so, but contract aside, Florida isn't that deep especially with the losses of Garrison/Samuelson.

EastCoastCanuck is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 08:56 PM
  #777
Numbers
Registered User
 
Numbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Colour me naive, but I think any deal to Florida will see a less substantial return than anywhere else.

I think Lu and Gillis have a handshake agreement to try to get Lu to the city he wants to go to and Gillis will do everything he can to accomodate this request, as a thank you for Luongo's years of service to the Nucks and for waiving his NTC.

As long as Gillis doesn't hold out for the moon from Tallon, there is probably a deal there to be had but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it is a very low return.

Something like Theodore/2nd/short term cap dump or Theo and a mid level prospect OR second rounder (provided Theo agrees to go).

I just don't see Tallon giving up a 1st or any significant prospect. Not when it is blatantly obvious Lu wants to go there, and really only there.

If someone comes in late (i.e. Toronto or Chicago) and blows Gillis' socks off, maybe GMMG goes back to Luongo to try to convince him to re-think his stance....but for now, I think Gillis is going to do everything he can to get Luongo in Florida. When this trade goes down, and people see the return, I think this will be obvious.
But that is not what Luongo said.....He was on the radio Friday and said he was open to multiple teams. He said his priority was to play in a hockey market. Is Florida a hockey market to you? He said explicitly that he would not mind going to Florida and Chicago. He implicitly expressed he would go to Toronto. I know the news is moving fast and its hard to keep up to date.....I listened to the interview and Luongo sounded quite flexible on where he goes.

Numbers is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:06 PM
  #778
ndgt10
Registered User
 
ndgt10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Poland
Country: United States
Posts: 4,105
vCash: 500
Still don't know why Florida wants Luongo. Chicago needs him much more than they do but we all know there is no way Van-Chi are making a deal!

ndgt10 is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:10 PM
  #779
Holy Mackinaw
Registered User
 
Holy Mackinaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: GTA, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
But that is not what Luongo said.....He was on the radio Friday and said he was open to multiple teams. He said his priority was to play in a hockey market. Is Florida a hockey market to you? He said explicitly that he would not mind going to Florida and Chicago. He implicitly expressed he would go to Toronto. I know the news is moving fast and its hard to keep up to date.....I listened to the interview and Luongo sounded quite flexible on where he goes.
I listened to the interview and read the transcripts, as well. I am not suggesting FLA is the ONLY place he will go. I am saying that it is his first choice and there is a deal to be had there, provided Tallon wants him.

In no way am I suggesting FLA is the only team Luongo is willing to go to. Nowhere in that interview does he reference Toronto, IIRC, and if you listen to the interview and read the transcripts, I think the Chicago reference was more tongue in cheek as he was answering a question about the goal song. (paraphrasing "I like that song. Heard it seven times in one game.") He did, however, say he always liked playing in Chitown.

I don't recall hearing anything about the Leafs or Toronto, but I could be wrong. I did, however, hear him say he loves the hockey markets and the loud crowds every night. If you are implying he would go to Toronto based on the interivew, I agree. I have little doubt he would waive for Toronto or Chicago, but his first choice is Florida, IMO, which is why I suggested Gillis will start there and work backwards.

Again, not suggesting he WOULDN'T go to Chicago or Toronto, but everyone is hanging on to his every word during an impromptu, fun, off-the-cuff morning show interview as gospel. Personally, I think he wants to go to Florida, if Gillis can move him, but is open to other options if Tallon had no interest and/or a deal could not be hammered out.


Last edited by Holy Mackinaw: 07-08-2012 at 09:18 PM.
Holy Mackinaw is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:18 PM
  #780
Numbers
Registered User
 
Numbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
I listened to the interview and read the transcripts, as well. I am not suggesting FLA is the ONLY place he will go. I am saying that it is his first choice and there is a deal to be had there, provided Tallon wants him.

In no way am I suggesting FLA is the only team Luongo is willing to go to. Nowhere in that interview does he reference Toronto, IIRC, and if you listen to the interview and read the transcripts, I think the Chicago reference was more tongue in cheek as he was answering a question about the goal song. (paraphrasing "I like that song. Heard it seven times in one game.") He did, however, say he always liked playing in Chitown.

I don't recall hearing anything about the Leafs or Toronto, but I could be wrong. I did, however, hear him say he loves the hockey markets and the loud crowds every night. If you are implying he would go to Toronto based on the interivew, I agree. I have no doubt he would waive for Toronto or Chicago, but his first choice is Florida, IMO, which is why I suggested Gillis will start there and work backwards.

Again, not suggesting he WOULDN'T go to Chicago or Toornto, but everyone is hanging on to his every word during an impromptu, fun, off-the-cuff morning show interview as gospel. Personally, I think he wants to go to Florida, if Gillis can move him, but is open to other options if Tallon had no interest and/or a deal could not be hammered out.
"Not when it is blatantly obvious Lu wants to go there, and really only there"

Just working with what you just said.........not sure what else you were trying to say?

Numbers is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:22 PM
  #781
nhlfan9191
Registered User
 
nhlfan9191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Saskatoon, Sk
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by warmplate View Post
With Luongo obviously going to leave now after saying "Its been 6 great years but Its time to move on", after being interviewed on Fox. It pretty much sums it up that Luongo is going to be gone regardless and with Florida being the front runners and Luongo unlikely waiving to go to Toronto, I propose this:

To Vancouver

Shawn Matthias ( C)
Jose Theodore (G)
Quinton Howden (LW)

To Florida

Roberto Luongo (G)
Mason Raymond (LW)

This is the Canucks lineup afterwards (I included a Shane Doan signing which finishes off the lineup)

2012-13 Vancouver Canucks:


FORWARDS


Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Shane Doan ($4.500m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Shawn Matthias ($0.852m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Dale Weise ($0.701m) / Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m)

DEFENSEMEN

Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m)

GOALTENDERS

Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Jose Theodore ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,497,125; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,702,875

All criticism welcomed.
Theo will not be going to the other way. He would rather retire in Florida than go to Vancouver to be a backup. Theodore made sure to get a NTC to avoid getting traded in a situation like this.

nhlfan9191 is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:23 PM
  #782
Holy Mackinaw
Registered User
 
Holy Mackinaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: GTA, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
"Not when it is blatantly obvious Lu wants to go there, and really only there"

Just working with what you just said.........not sure what else you were trying to say?
Sorry. I should have clarified. I mean based on all the chatter around the league in recent hours and days that says Luongo's first choice is Florida. I shouldn't have said "really only there." I mean as a first choice and if a deal can't be reached, there are other teams he would waive for.

Start with Florida, to see if a deal can be made. If not, move to his second and third choices, as more of a courtesy to Lu than anything.

Holy Mackinaw is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:23 PM
  #783
Dr Beinfest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by torque View Post
It's been stated before, but it's unlikely that Upshall is moved considering the NMC. Jovo is the only realistic roster player I see coming back in trade. The other half will be prospects/picks.
It's more likely that Upshall gets moved than it is that Vancouver actually wants Old Man Jovo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Upshall has a NMC which Tallon signed him to last year. He was then injured much of the season. How do you think it sounds to future players wanting sign in Florida when the GM gives a player a multi year NMC and then moves(gives up on) him the next year after injury?

Jovo has been liked in Florida. Van already has 4 left side dmen in their top 6. No space for Jovo. Bad fit......

Santorelli can be sent for a dump and makes sense because he was just waived last week.
Jovo has not exactly been 'liked' in Florida. The Jovo-Gudbranson pairing last season was terrible, usually either because of rookie mistakes or old man mistakes.

Jovo is also on an old man contract. Nobody wants to touch that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather trade Jovo than Upshall, but something tells me if there's some money going the other way it's not Jovo and that really only leaves Kulikov, Versteeg, and Upshall. Meaning... Upshall.

The teams just don't make great trading partners. Anyways though... in regards to everyone saying stuff like Versteeg, etc., it's not happening. The Panthers don't NEED Luongo. The Canucks want rid of him. Yeah, he's an impact player. But he has a big ol' contract that most teams don't want to touch. If he's being moved to Florida, it only adds up that he's at an ultimate buyer's price right now. Versteeg... no. Kulikov... no. Huberdeau/Howden... no. Bjugstad... no. You all laugh at the idea that Shore for Luongo straight up and while it's by no means accurate, it's way more accurate than asking for high end Panthers.

Dr Beinfest is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:33 PM
  #784
Numbers
Registered User
 
Numbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
It's more likely that Upshall gets moved than it is that Vancouver actually wants Old Man Jovo.



Jovo has not exactly been 'liked' in Florida. The Jovo-Gudbranson pairing last season was terrible, usually either because of rookie mistakes or old man mistakes.

Jovo is also on an old man contract. Nobody wants to touch that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather trade Jovo than Upshall, but something tells me if there's some money going the other way it's not Jovo and that really only leaves Kulikov, Versteeg, and Upshall. Meaning... Upshall.

The teams just don't make great trading partners. Anyways though... in regards to everyone saying stuff like Versteeg, etc., it's not happening. The Panthers don't NEED Luongo. The Canucks want rid of him. Yeah, he's an impact player. But he has a big ol' contract that most teams don't want to touch. If he's being moved to Florida, it only adds up that he's at an ultimate buyer's price right now. Versteeg... no. Kulikov... no. Huberdeau/Howden... no. Bjugstad... no. You all laugh at the idea that Shore for Luongo straight up and while it's by no means accurate, it's way more accurate than asking for high end Panthers.
Its hard to predict trades. Sometimes using different cues other then need helps tell the story. Your story does not make sense in regards to financials and NMC. Upshall has a NMC and as I said in previous reply, it will make Florida look bad to future free agents if they ask a guy a year after he signs his NMC to be traded. Jovo just does not fit. Maybe if he was right handed, but he is not. Van have 4 lefties in their top 6 already. In regards to financials Versteeg+Luongo would add 11+mil of extra salary. Then still need to sign Kulikov. This easily puts Panthers over 60mil. I doubt that their internal budget can afford it. Whether or not me or you think Florida should get Luongo does not matter. There is interest. This means Tallon has a plan for his budget with Luo. Due to upcoming prospect Versteeg seems like an expensive piece for his future role.

Numbers is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:36 PM
  #785
A1LeafNation
Thanks Boston.
 
A1LeafNation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,764
vCash: 566
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabovski(replaces Kesler as 2nd line center and then no need to salary dump on Nucks)
MacArthur(top 6 winger)
Scrivens(some goalie depth)
Colborne(replaces Hodgson as center prospect)

A1LeafNation is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:39 PM
  #786
AmazingNuck
Registered User
 
AmazingNuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,130
vCash: 500
^ lol no. Kesler isn't going anywhere.

Don't like the idea of Versteeg coming back. He has more value and might contribute more to the roster, but meh.. he's tiny. The Canucks need to get bigger.

AmazingNuck is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:40 PM
  #787
excape
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabovski(replaces Kesler as 2nd line center and then no need to salary dump on Nucks)
MacArthur(top 6 winger)
Scrivens(some goalie depth)
Colborne(replaces Hodgson as center prospect)
That is absolutely horrible.

excape is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:40 PM
  #788
ziploc
Registered User
 
ziploc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabovski(replaces Kesler as 2nd line center and then no need to salary dump on Nucks)
MacArthur(top 6 winger)
Scrivens(some goalie depth)
Colborne(replaces Hodgson as center prospect)
Nope. Nopity nope nope nopersens with extra nope sauce. Keep your eyes off Kesler.

ziploc is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:40 PM
  #789
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,741
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler + Luongo

for

Grabovski(replaces Kesler as 2nd line center and then no need to salary dump on Nucks) + MacArthur(top 6 winger) + Scrivens(some goalie depth) + Colborne(replaces Hodgson as center prospect)
Not even if you added Kessel. We replace Kesler for a lesser, and more expensive, player, and we get a package of players we don't need (Mac is a tweener, we have tons of them, Scrivens would be fighting with Lack, Schneider and possibly guys down the pipeline like Cannata and Colborne is nice...but doesn't make up for the rest).

Drop Kesler and Grabovski and that is the low end of what most Leafs fans are offering now, no thank you.

Cogburn is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:41 PM
  #790
Back in 94
In Gillis I trust
 
Back in 94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Grabovski(replaces Kesler as 2nd line center) + MacArthur(top 6 winger) + Scrivens(some goalie depth) + Colborne(replaces Hodgson as center prospect)

For

Kesler + Luongo
Big NO from Vancouver. I wouldn't trade Kesler alone for that package let alone Luongo too. What incentive does Vancouver have to do this?

Kesler is way more valuable to this team than Grabovski. MacArthur wouldn't fit in our top six, especially if the rumors of Vancouver landing Doan or Semin are true. Scrivens and Colborne are good prospects but probably won't contribute to our roster. We are in win now mode.

Back in 94 is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:43 PM
  #791
A1LeafNation
Thanks Boston.
 
A1LeafNation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,764
vCash: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Not even if you added Kessel. We replace Kesler for a lesser, and more expensive, player, and we get a package of players we don't need (Mac is a tweener, we have tons of them, Scrivens would be fighting with Lack, Schneider and possibly guys down the pipeline like Cannata and Colborne is nice...but doesn't make up for the rest).

Drop Kesler and Grabovski and that is the low end of what most Leafs fans are offering now, no thank you.
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabs
Lupul
Colborne
Reimer

Obviously better deal, Leafs probably wont do it, but would Vancouver take something like this?

A1LeafNation is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:44 PM
  #792
quat
intheDanRusseljungle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to quat
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler + Luongo

for

Grabovski(replaces Kesler as 2nd line center and then no need to salary dump on Nucks) + MacArthur(top 6 winger) + Scrivens(some goalie depth) + Colborne(replaces Hodgson as center prospect)
Can you honestly say that if the rosters of both teams were switched, that you would be willing to trade Kesler with Luongo for those players?

I don't want to dump on the player from TO, but none of them play at the same level as Kesler and Luongo, and I know it's popular to crap on Luongo's contract, but Selke winner Kesler is signed for a freakishly good deal.

How can TO expect to get both those players by giving up one decent guy with a high end contract in Grabovski, and depth?

Personally, I've been hoping that the Leafs get back to being a solid team for years now, but reading some of these comments make it pretty hard to support your fan base.

quat is online now  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:45 PM
  #793
excape
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabs
Lupul
Colborne
Reimer

Obviously better deal, Leafs probably wont do it, but would Vancouver take something like this?
Once again, not even close from Vancouver's side.

excape is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:45 PM
  #794
Cogburn
Registered User
 
Cogburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,741
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabs
Lupul
Colborne
Reimer
No closer mate. You need a considerable player coming our way to make it worth while. Even Kessel straight won't get you Kesler. I know Burke paid a premium for him, but Kesler has tied (or beaten...I think tied) his career high in goals, plays a more valuable position, and has a Selke. You'd have to overpay to the point of crippling your team now and in the future, and probably throw in the 1967 cup as well.

Cogburn is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:46 PM
  #795
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,392
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabs
Lupul
Colborne
Reimer

Obviously better deal, Leafs probably wont do it, but would Vancouver take something like this?
Still no. Kesler would need absurd overpayment to go your way(kessel+ grab).
Otherwise we don't consider it.

Vankiller Whale is online now  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:46 PM
  #796
CRDragon
\_(シ)_/
 
CRDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabs
Lupul
Colborne
Reimer

Obviously better deal, Leafs probably wont do it, but would Vancouver take something like this?
rofl...really? Van hangs up the phone laughing.
Kesler's underrated

CRDragon is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:47 PM
  #797
ziploc
Registered User
 
ziploc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabs
Lupul
Colborne
Reimer

Obviously better deal, Leafs probably wont do it, but would Vancouver take something like this?
No, but the Leafs would take it and celebrate by dancing naked in the streets. And we don't want to see that from Burke. So let's all pray that Gillis doesn't get hit with a brick or something and agree to any of these terrible proposals.

ziploc is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:47 PM
  #798
quat
intheDanRusseljungle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 8,991
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to quat
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabs
Lupul
Colborne
Reimer

Obviously better deal, Leafs probably wont do it, but would Vancouver take something like this?
No. The only player they should have interest in moving is Luongo. The Canucks have the right mixture of players (almost), to take another run at a cup. Removing Kesler from the team to make Toronto better doesn't make sense from the Canucks end of things.

quat is online now  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:49 PM
  #799
cleverusername
Registered User
 
cleverusername's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NH and Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1LeafNation View Post
Kesler
Luongo

for

Grabs
Lupul
Colborne
Reimer

Obviously better deal, Leafs probably wont do it, but would Vancouver take something like this?

cleverusername is offline  
Old
07-08-2012, 09:49 PM
  #800
A1LeafNation
Thanks Boston.
 
A1LeafNation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,764
vCash: 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
No closer mate. You need a considerable player coming our way to make it worth while. Even Kessel straight won't get you Kesler. I know Burke paid a premium for him, but Kesler has tied (or beaten...I think tied) his career high in goals, plays a more valuable position, and has a Selke. You'd have to overpay to the point of crippling your team now and in the future, and probably throw in the 1967 cup as well.
LOL ,too rich for my blood, I wouldn't mind putting a little extra in for Luongo if we could trade for Kesler too, but if its costing us anything more, I don't think Leafs are in a position to be selling off young assets yet. We are a bottom 5 team, not a contender.

A1LeafNation is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.