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Luongo XXI - Roberto Royale

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Old
07-09-2012, 09:38 AM
  #976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
I know that, I can't prove my point purely based on stats because they vary a lot from year to year.
So the stats and decline only applies to Luongo and no one else, is what you're saying?

If Luongo weren't held to a different standard as everyone else, he would be regarded as a top 5 goalie by almost everyone here. As such, people wouldn't be coming up with insulting offers of Komisarek, Percy, and MacArthur.

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07-09-2012, 09:54 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Cocoa Crisp View Post
scraps from Fla > Connolly/Lombardi, Percy/Finn, 2nd/MacArthur

Because Luongo would rather go to Florida and your offer is insufficient motivation for Gillis to talk him out of it.

We have sufficient capspace to go after Weber. We just waive Ballard and deal Luongo to Florida for scraps and we have enough for both Weber (8.5M) and to take a healthy run at Doan (~6.5M).

In summary: I think you're overestimating Toronto's leverage in this scenario.
In terms of expiring contracts on quality depth players, Florida's offer can't match up with Toronto's. Connolly, Percy, and MacArthur is a deal that offers both cap relief and pieces that help with your cup run this year. You could take a deal involving some of the players Florida overpaid in FA last year or you can take IMO better players that you can walk away from in one season if you so choose too and a 1st round defensive prospect. Florida trumps this deal only when they offer one of their highly touted forward prospects, which I highly doubt they would.

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07-09-2012, 10:03 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So the stats and decline only applies to Luongo and no one else, is what you're saying?

If Luongo weren't held to a different standard as everyone else, he would be regarded as a top 5 goalie by almost everyone here. As such, people wouldn't be coming up with insulting offers of Komisarek, Percy, and MacArthur.
Then why is Luongo being traded? Apparently he didn't demand it and no team in their right mind would shop a top 5 goaltender.

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07-09-2012, 10:04 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
1. I don't think Gillis was interested in either Ribiero or Roy.

2. Value wise, Kadri+1st is a good. Good enough to flip for an impact player.



Not a bad trade for the Canucks.

We could package Kadri+2nd+ for a great winger for Kesler.

If we can get the 2nd trade with another team it's a done deal.

Problem is, what teams would trade their impact winger for Kadri+? Not many IMO.
Was just using the players as example that moved, I don't know who is available really besids the Nash and Ryan's.

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The actual trade has started to interest me less and less relative to the potential thread titles.

Really feeling the Harry Potter idea proposed earlier.
I am just getting tired of having the same argument with certain posters. Many have come and been great, good to debate with, and in many cases find common ground. Others... not so much.

Well we are moving on now, so lets finish the bond titles up quick, and finish strong with some good titles.

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07-09-2012, 10:14 AM
  #980
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Something that probably has been pointed out before, but bears repeating: when you are talking about Luongo's career save percentage that number is somewhat bloated because of his time in Florida where it is (I think) common knowledge that he score keeper is EXTREMELY liberal on shots against, such that a thwarted jam play with 4 or 5 whacks at the puck results in the exact number of saves by the goalie.

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Old
07-09-2012, 10:17 AM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Then why is Luongo being traded? Apparently he didn't demand it and no team in their right mind would shop a top 5 goaltender.
I agree it's stupid of the Canucks to look to trade him.

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07-09-2012, 10:18 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Then why is Luongo being traded? Apparently he didn't demand it and no team in their right mind would shop a top 5 goaltender.
After 20 threads you can't be seriously asking this question.

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07-09-2012, 10:21 AM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
Something that probably has been pointed out before, but bears repeating: when you are talking about Luongo's career save percentage that number is somewhat bloated because of his time in Florida where it is (I think) common knowledge that he score keeper is EXTREMELY liberal on shots against, such that a thwarted jam play with 4 or 5 whacks at the puck results in the exact number of saves by the goalie.
Just curious, what exactly does somewhat bloated mean? .923 instead of .922?

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07-09-2012, 10:22 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
After 20 threads you can't be seriously asking this question.
That was only for my own amusement.

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07-09-2012, 10:23 AM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
Something that probably has been pointed out before, but bears repeating: when you are talking about Luongo's career save percentage that number is somewhat bloated because of his time in Florida where it is (I think) common knowledge that he score keeper is EXTREMELY liberal on shots against, such that a thwarted jam play with 4 or 5 whacks at the puck results in the exact number of saves by the goalie.
I think this is a bit of a snowjob. Luongo has been a very good-great goaltender for many years. He's just run his course in Vancouver. It happens.

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07-09-2012, 10:24 AM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
Something that probably has been pointed out before, but bears repeating: when you are talking about Luongo's career save percentage that number is somewhat bloated because of his time in Florida where it is (I think) common knowledge that he score keeper is EXTREMELY liberal on shots against, such that a thwarted jam play with 4 or 5 whacks at the puck results in the exact number of saves by the goalie.


Does Vancouver have liberal stats keepers too?

Luongo's Vancouver SV% is .920%
Luongo's career SV% is .919%

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07-09-2012, 10:24 AM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So the stats and decline only applies to Luongo and no one else, is what you're saying?

If Luongo weren't held to a different standard as everyone else, he would be regarded as a top 5 goalie by almost everyone here.
Really? So, let's examine that. Allow me to preface this by saying I am a big Luongo fan and still consider him, without a doubt, a great goalie (not top 5, but without a doubt top third of NHL starters). So, now that we know I am not trolling, let's jump into your point:

Two seasons ago, Lu was second in the league in GAA (2.11) and 3rd in SV % .928. Last season (a season in which he was fantastic, by Canuck fans' accounts), he lost nine ponits off his save percentage (T12) and his GAA went from 2.11 to 2.41 (T14).

How is that not regression? Or are we going to parade out stats for two seasons ago, three Vezina trophies and Game 7 of the Cup final as to what he can do for a team MOVING FORWARD? Do current statistics not apply to teams willing to make a deal? Or are the only stats from and 2010-11, and terms such as "one year removed", relevant to your argument? OK, theoretically, that makes Kulemin a 30-goal scorer, right?

Luongo is not a top 5 goalie in this league. Top 10, maybe, but your generic throwing out of Veznina nominations is the past. Can he put up a .928 save percentage and 2.11 GAA again? Probably. Is he an upgrade for, say, half the teams in the league? Probably a safe bet. Can you completely discount this past season, where he was very good but not great in comparison to elite starters? Of course not.


Last edited by Holy Mackinaw: 07-09-2012 at 10:30 AM.
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Old
07-09-2012, 10:29 AM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
Something that probably has been pointed out before, but bears repeating: when you are talking about Luongo's career save percentage that number is somewhat bloated because of his time in Florida where it is (I think) common knowledge that he score keeper is EXTREMELY liberal on shots against, such that a thwarted jam play with 4 or 5 whacks at the puck results in the exact number of saves by the goalie.
I guess the liberal score keeper must have followed him on road trips and then to Vancouver. He had 1 .931% season in Florida and 1 .928 season in Vancouver. The rest of his seasons are all clustered around .920.

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07-09-2012, 10:30 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Luongo is not a top 5 goalie in this league. Top 10, maybe, but your generic throwing out of Veznina nominations is the past.
Goalies aren't judged on their yearly statistics as much as they're judged over a number of years of work.

Otherwise Brian Elliot would be the best goalie in the league.

Let's compare the last 2 season between Luongo and the best goalie in the world.

1 - .926SV%
2 - .924SV%

One of those 2 is Lundqvist.

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07-09-2012, 10:30 AM
  #990
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In 20 posts is the new Luongo, quantam of solace...

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07-09-2012, 10:31 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I think this is a bit of a snowjob. Luongo has been a very good-great goaltender for many years. He's just run his course in Vancouver. It happens.
It's not. I agree Luongo is still an excellent goalie.

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07-09-2012, 10:34 AM
  #992
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post


Does Vancouver have liberal stats keepers too?

Luongo's Vancouver SV% is .920%
Luongo's career SV% is .919%
I'll say it again -- Luongo is still an excellent goalie.

But you would agree the quality of shots he faced in Florida were higher than in Vancouver, right?

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07-09-2012, 10:43 AM
  #993
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Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
In 20 posts is the new Luongo, quantam of solace...
Quantum of Solace is a good name for the post trade thread.

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07-09-2012, 10:43 AM
  #994
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I put forward Quantum of SoLuuce

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07-09-2012, 10:51 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
I'll say it again -- Luongo is still an excellent goalie.

But you would agree the quality of shots he faced in Florida were higher than in Vancouver, right?
No.

And as a Hawks fan you should know that too.

The 2 years your Hawks eliminated the Canucks in the 2nd round, the Hawks scored 7 and 5 goals in the elimination games.

Try and remember the goals....I would say 90% of them were Hawks players one on one with the goalie, no defender in sight...

This past year the Canucks team was propped up by their excellent goaltending, their team defense is greatly overrated on this board....it wasn't good this year.

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07-09-2012, 10:53 AM
  #996
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This past year the Canucks team was propped up by their excellent goaltending, their team defense is greatly overrated on this board....it wasn't good this year.
^ This.

Since the start of the season, I was shocked by how many 2 on 1s they allowed. The d-men were pinching up in the offensive zone way too often, and when they shouldn't have been doing so (and the forwards weren't covering for them on the blue line).

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07-09-2012, 11:00 AM
  #997
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
No.

And as a Hawks fan you should know that too.

The 2 years your Hawks eliminated the Canucks in the 2nd round, the Hawks scored 7 and 5 goals in the elimination games.

Try and remember the goals....I would say 90% of them were Hawks players one on one with the goalie, no defender in sight...

This past year the Canucks team was propped up by their excellent goaltending, their team defense is greatly overrated on this board....it wasn't good this year.
very true. The Canucks give up as many odd man rushes as any team. Last season was brutal for team defense.

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07-09-2012, 11:00 AM
  #998
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Originally Posted by KingJet View Post
In 20 posts is the new Luongo, quantam of solace...
Quantum of Gillis.

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07-09-2012, 11:02 AM
  #999
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But you would agree the quality of shots he faced in Florida were higher than in Vancouver, right?
No.

Vancouver might have the Sedins up front but they completely rely on their goalie(s).

Which is why it makes no sense why we play an uptempo system.

Our defense gives up so many many 2 on 1s it's hilarious.

Give us an Crawford and we're out of the playoffs.

Put Luongo in Phoenix and he puts up a .930SV%+ yearly.

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07-09-2012, 11:02 AM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
Something that probably has been pointed out before, but bears repeating: when you are talking about Luongo's career save percentage that number is somewhat bloated because of his time in Florida where it is (I think) common knowledge that he score keeper is EXTREMELY liberal on shots against, such that a thwarted jam play with 4 or 5 whacks at the puck results in the exact number of saves by the goalie.
Being that his best season ever came in Florida but his second best season came in Vancouver, I'm going to say that it really doesn't matter that much.

The guy is basically a beast that gets held out of the top 5 because he hasn't won a Cup while guys like Lundqvist, Rinne, and Miller who've had even less team success get ranked ahead of him.

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