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[OTT/CBJ] Nick Foligno for Marc Methot Part II

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Old
07-13-2012, 11:26 AM
  #151
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Hi all,

Last summer Fox Sports Ohio did four episodes of what they called their "Summer Tour". One episode was with Methot and Clitsome in Ottawa.

Links if you're interested:
http://video.bluejackets.nhl.com/vid...=702&id=123140
http://video.bluejackets.nhl.com/vid...=702&id=123138
http://video.bluejackets.nhl.com/vid...ed-share-video
http://video.bluejackets.nhl.com/vid...ed-share-video

The first one doesn't cover much at all, but the following ones do.

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07-13-2012, 12:21 PM
  #152
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Nice! Thanks for that.

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07-13-2012, 03:53 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Trigun View Post
You say that about every move and every prospect.
Lmao, show me posts. I've said it about 3 moves recently. Benoit signing, Neil signing and Methot trade.

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Seriously qft, try to use just a little less hyperbole about every Sens move being 'amazing' and we might be able to take you seriously.
I just realized you're using hyperbole too. I don't say it about "every" Sens move. Also, I could give 2 ****s if you don't take me seriously. Ever since I joined and talked highly about Swedish prospects you've always based your opinions towards me on that, haha.

Notice how we went from lottery pick to almost beating top team in East? Something had to go amazing along those lines for such a feat to be accomplished

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07-13-2012, 07:13 PM
  #154
dacostalove
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post

Notice how we went from lottery pick to almost beating top team in East? Something had to go amazing along those lines for such a feat to be accomplished
yeah, we went from having a team in complete disarray with our tpo offensive threqts missing huge parts of their seasons with nothing of much quality in bingo to replace them, to having pretty much nothing go wrong, at all; on top of that a breakout season in a massive way from karlsson, one which he is hardly likely to come close to repeating next year.

so yeah, it was more so the luck factor. went from complete **** luck to amazing luck. and such is life in sports.

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07-13-2012, 07:53 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by dacostalove View Post
yeah, we went from having a team in complete disarray with our tpo offensive threqts missing huge parts of their seasons with nothing of much quality in bingo to replace them, to having pretty much nothing go wrong, at all; on top of that a breakout season in a massive way from karlsson, one which he is hardly likely to come close to repeating next year.

so yeah, it was more so the luck factor. went from complete **** luck to amazing luck. and such is life in sports.
I dissagree that luck was the main factor. Coaching, conditioning and certain players' skill levels had much more to do with it than luck.

Not sure why you expect Karlsson to "not come close" to repeating his great season, but I suppose some will always be doomed to view life through the misery of their half empty glass...

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07-13-2012, 10:49 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
I dissagree that luck was the main factor. Coaching, conditioning and certain players' skill levels had much more to do with it than luck.

Not sure why you expect Karlsson to "not come close" to repeating his great season, but I suppose some will always be doomed to view life through the misery of their half empty glass...
"Not come close" is a little strong but I agree with the sentiment. He's going to be keyed on even more and the Rangers created a blueprint to shut him down. It gets worse when you add in that he'll have to adjust to playing with a new partner and one that won't be able to alleviate any kind of offensive pressure from him. Say what you will about Kuba but he was a reliable outlet and his shot was often on target creating chances when Karlsson was forced to go D2D. Teams won't respect Methot/Phllips/Cowen/Lundin at all. Karlsson's point is going to ALWAYS be covered without fail. That'll benefit us sometimes but more often than not, it'll hurt Karlsson and the puck will just be lobbed into the corner.

Karlsson piled up an insane amount of point by just getting shots through from the point 5 on 5 and that's just unlikely to happen this year with less space to work with. He's gonna have to do it on the PP and in transition... which he's probably better at than 99.99% of players in this league but it'll still affect his stats. I'm looking at a 60-65 point season rather than ~80 unless we have a some breakout performances from forwards to finish his sweet sweet passes.

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Old
07-14-2012, 01:50 AM
  #157
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I think Karlsson will once again finish at 70ish points. Remember that he had something like 5 goals through the first half and exploded in the second with an unbelievable goal-scoring rate. Then players started to block his shots more and that opened up passing lanes for him again. He just can not be identified. Rangers system was down right spectacular defensively and Karlsson wasn't the only one who couldn't get going offensively. The whole team was sputtering to create offense. Plus, there were multiple times players couldn't finish Karlsson's passes.

That's why I see Bryan Murray focusing on getting a strong top-line power forward to bring the pressure down-low so that Karlsson has more work to handle with up high when the puck does get there.

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07-14-2012, 03:05 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
"Not come close" is a little strong but I agree with the sentiment. He's going to be keyed on even more and the Rangers created a blueprint to shut him down. It gets worse when you add in that he'll have to adjust to playing with a new partner and one that won't be able to alleviate any kind of offensive pressure from him. Say what you will about Kuba but he was a reliable outlet and his shot was often on target creating chances when Karlsson was forced to go D2D. Teams won't respect Methot/Phllips/Cowen/Lundin at all. Karlsson's point is going to ALWAYS be covered without fail. That'll benefit us sometimes but more often than not, it'll hurt Karlsson and the puck will just be lobbed into the corner.

Karlsson piled up an insane amount of point by just getting shots through from the point 5 on 5 and that's just unlikely to happen this year with less space to work with. He's gonna have to do it on the PP and in transition... which he's probably better at than 99.99% of players in this league but it'll still affect his stats. I'm looking at a 60-65 point season rather than ~80 unless we have a some breakout performances from forwards to finish his sweet sweet passes.
Totally understand the sentiment.

What I question is why folks need to trend towards the negative as a default. I mean, I understand that it's much easier to be pleasantly surprised than be disappointed, but a player on our team has had a dominant performance, and I for one believe that the guy deserves all of the credit until he shows he can't do it. Let's be honest, he's a 70 point defenceman until he isn't, why shouldn't we, and he, be able to revel in that until he's proven otherwise.

This is the half empty argument I always get into. Why focus on the negative and undercut? If teams are able better able to neutralize him next year then so be it, but until it happens it's no more probable than his ability to continue to thwart opposing teams as we have seen him do.

The Rangers as an example are a bit of an anomaly as no one blocks shots like they do, and their offence suffers for it. The regular season is also a different beast from the playoffs. It's not realistic to think that teams weren't already keying in on Karlsson throughout the second half of the regular season last year.

Either way, why be pre-bummed, when if it happens you'll be bummed anyways. Me I'd rather choose to be stoked until I'm forced to be otherwise... Temper expectations only when they're shown to need it...

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07-14-2012, 05:20 AM
  #159
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Karlsson has that much more experience from last season and last playoffs and if he continues his trend, no doubt he will learn from the things he has witnessed or saw video of.

He will be possibly heavier and stronger to boot, so I don't feel he is going to decline in points total, at least not drastically.

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07-14-2012, 06:22 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Ice-Tray View Post
Totally understand the sentiment.

What I question is why folks need to trend towards the negative as a default. I mean, I understand that it's much easier to be pleasantly surprised than be disappointed, but a player on our team has had a dominant performance, and I for one believe that the guy deserves all of the credit until he shows he can't do it. Let's be honest, he's a 70 point defenceman until he isn't, why shouldn't we, and he, be able to revel in that until he's proven otherwise.

This is the half empty argument I always get into. Why focus on the negative and undercut? If teams are able better able to neutralize him next year then so be it, but until it happens it's no more probable than his ability to continue to thwart opposing teams as we have seen him do.

The Rangers as an example are a bit of an anomaly as no one blocks shots like they do, and their offence suffers for it. The regular season is also a different beast from the playoffs. It's not realistic to think that teams weren't already keying in on Karlsson throughout the second half of the regular season last year.

Either way, why be pre-bummed, when if it happens you'll be bummed anyways. Me I'd rather choose to be stoked until I'm forced to be otherwise... Temper expectations only when they're shown to need it...
oh no! i don't think our 21 year old norris winner is going to repeat his norris winning season! what a ****ing pessimist i am.

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07-14-2012, 07:58 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
"Not come close" is a little strong but I agree with the sentiment.
Covering Karlsson won't hurt him because he can pass the puck around and beat players but agree that he can easily match his point total just as easily as get 'only' 60-70 points. Getting 80 points is just unreal and probably involved some luck.

Regardless our breakouts with him will look the same and still be a joy to watch. He'll still inexplicably keep pucks in the zone and will get puck through people.

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07-14-2012, 11:40 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
"Not come close" is a little strong but I agree with the sentiment. He's going to be keyed on even more and the Rangers created a blueprint to shut him down. It gets worse when you add in that he'll have to adjust to playing with a new partner and one that won't be able to alleviate any kind of offensive pressure from him. Say what you will about Kuba but he was a reliable outlet and his shot was often on target creating chances when Karlsson was forced to go D2D. Teams won't respect Methot/Phllips/Cowen/Lundin at all. Karlsson's point is going to ALWAYS be covered without fail. That'll benefit us sometimes but more often than not, it'll hurt Karlsson and the puck will just be lobbed into the corner.

Karlsson piled up an insane amount of point by just getting shots through from the point 5 on 5 and that's just unlikely to happen this year with less space to work with. He's gonna have to do it on the PP and in transition... which he's probably better at than 99.99% of players in this league but it'll still affect his stats. I'm looking at a 60-65 point season rather than ~80 unless we have a some breakout performances from forwards to finish his sweet sweet passes.
The Rangers "blueprint" isn't going to be one most teams can follow. Karlsson averaged 4.5 shots per game in the playoffs (next closes was Bieksa at 3.4), and he would have had plenty more if the Rangers weren't one of the best shot blocking teams out there. He actually averaged more shots per game then in the reg season by 1.2/g. Not to mention every other team doesn't has Lundquist to stop the ones that do get through.

The point about Kuba is fair, and will probably have the biggest impact; hopefully whoever he gets paired with can get some good one timers off and start drawing the attention over. Kuba was a passing threat, but didn't really have a fearsome shot from the point. His shot was more of a "filter it through" type.

In the end, I agree that his stats will likely suffer this year, but I think anyone trying to use the NYR's blueprint will get burned.

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07-14-2012, 11:41 AM
  #163
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You guys worry too much. Karlsson will be fine. Even if the opposition does manage to key on him more next season (I am pretty sure every team around the league were aware of Karlsson in the second half already too) then he will adjust accordingly. His hockey IQ is just incredible and his speed will be utilized even more.

Just because the league will be more attentive to Karlsson doesn't mean he will stay status quo in terms of his play. They adjust and so will he. Plus we have some good young talent that will be injected into the lineup next season so hopefully they can pot some goals from a Karlsson no look pass between 2 defenders from behind his net

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07-14-2012, 11:43 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
The Rangers "blueprint" isn't going to be one most teams can follow. Karlsson averaged 4.5 shots per game in the playoffs (next closes was Bieksa at 3.4), and he would have had plenty more if the Rangers weren't one of the best shot blocking teams out there. He actually averaged more shots per game then in the reg season by 1.2/g. Not to mention every other team doesn't has Lundquist to stop the ones that do get through.

The point about Kuba is fair, and will probably have the biggest impact; hopefully whoever he gets paired with can get some good one timers off and start drawing the attention over. Kuba was a passing threat, but didn't really have a fearsome shot from the point. His shot was more of a "filter it through" type.

In the end, I agree that his stats will likely suffer this year, but I think anyone trying to use the NYR's blueprint will get burned.
Not to mention, not every team has a Lundqvist on their roster too

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07-14-2012, 11:58 AM
  #165
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You guys worry too much. Karlsson will be fine. Even if the opposition does manage to key on him more next season (I am pretty sure every team around the league were aware of Karlsson in the second half already too) then he will adjust accordingly. His hockey IQ is just incredible and his speed will be utilized even more.

Just because the league will be more attentive to Karlsson doesn't mean he will stay status quo in terms of his play. They adjust and so will he. Plus we have some good young talent that will be injected into the lineup next season so hopefully they can pot some goals from a Karlsson no look pass between 2 defenders from behind his net
It's interesting to note that his pts/g went up post Allstar game from .92 to 1.03 while his shots/g stayed consistent.

Where I think Karlsson had luck on his side is that he was involved (got a point) on something like 50% of all ES goals the team scored while he was on the ice. That's pretty high.

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07-14-2012, 12:20 PM
  #166
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It's interesting to note that his pts/g went up post Allstar game from .92 to 1.03 while his shots/g stayed consistent.

Where I think Karlsson had luck on his side is that he was involved (got a point) on something like 50% of all ES goals the team scored while he was on the ice. That's pretty high.
He was the primary catalyst to our breakout so it's not that hard for me to believe he was involved in 50% of ES points.

I do agree a bit of luck was on his side, however he was pretty unlucky as well. I can remember countless number of times where the recipient of his pass was not able to bury their chances. One that comes instantly to mind is his feather pass to Michalek on a breakaway vs the Canucks.

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07-14-2012, 03:08 PM
  #167
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Man, rethinking of Karlsson's plays last year, my God was he ever dominant and it makes me unbelievably excited for more of him in the future. We have an unbelievable player in our midst. One that could go down as one of the best ever to play his position!

Methot and eventually Cowen will be fine partners. Cowen will be perfect but you guys get what I mean.


Last edited by ReginKarlssonLehner: 07-14-2012 at 03:18 PM.
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07-14-2012, 04:44 PM
  #168
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Man, rethinking of Karlsson's plays last year, my God was he ever dominant and it makes me unbelievably excited for more of him in the future. We have an unbelievable player in our midst. One that could go down as one of the best ever to play his position!

Methot and eventually Cowen will be fine partners. Cowen will be perfect but you guys get what I mean.
It's funny, I feel the exact opposite about Karlsson. When I think back on the season it almost seem kind of as though he could have been sleep walking the entire time. I don't mean to question his work ethic, but I imagine he could be even better than he was last year if he more overtly worked his ass off.

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07-14-2012, 04:59 PM
  #169
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It's funny, I feel the exact opposite about Karlsson. When I think back on the season it almost seem kind of as though he could have been sleep walking the entire time. I don't mean to question his work ethic, but I imagine he could be even better than he was last year if he more overtly worked his ass off.
I never said he wasn't, haha. I'm saying he still lit up the league regardless. Then again, he did play 30ish minutes most nights. Very tiring.

He almost got 80 points on a team that had one top-line forward and finished top 10 in points in the league. He was doing something right

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07-14-2012, 05:39 PM
  #170
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That season was more so a "haters gonna hate stroll" than a "rawr, rawr, rawr Rocky training montage" and that's scary.

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07-14-2012, 06:33 PM
  #171
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That season was more so a "haters gonna hate stroll" than a "rawr, rawr, rawr Rocky training montage" and that's scary.
Lmao, so true. Even down to the Norris trophy voting. I'm expecting the Rocky training montage next year though! With bone-crushing hits (Not fully sarcastic though)

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07-14-2012, 08:05 PM
  #172
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Notice how we went from lottery pick to almost beating top team in East? Something had to go amazing along those lines for such a feat to be accomplished
Injuries for one thing. We went through a season with without Spezza or Michalek missing significant time with injuries, do you think that had anything to do with it? I sure hope we can have another relatively injury free season but I'm not foolish enough to count on it.

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Lmao, show me posts.
That's just too easy.

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07-15-2012, 10:53 AM
  #173
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Howson said on the Radio that the deal he gave Foligno was what he was asking for from Ottawa. Trade looks better now doesn't it?

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07-15-2012, 11:01 AM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
Karlsson has that much more experience from last season and last playoffs and if he continues his trend, no doubt he will learn from the things he has witnessed or saw video of.

He will be possibly heavier and stronger to boot, so I don't feel he is going to decline in points total, at least not drastically.
I think the experience from the playoffs will go a very long way - he learned quite quickly how to have an impact without having to get points every game. He'll be a much better player for it.

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07-15-2012, 11:49 AM
  #175
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Howson said on the Radio that the deal he gave Foligno was what he was asking for from Ottawa. Trade looks better now doesn't it?
Ottawa might reach the floor in that case though

He was an RFA; it's not as if they had reached an impasse. Murray would have had plenty of time negotiate the term and yearly amount to his liking and Foligno would have taken it to stay here.

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