I don't doubt that this thread will be unpopular, but I believe it is something that must be discussed separately. Bear with me, please. We have lost 4 out of our best 5/6 penalty killers from the 10-11 season in which we led the league. First Talbot, and now Staal & Michalek to trades. Furthermore, Adams has seriously lost a step and is no "elite-level" penalty killer anymore.
Last season, minus Talbot and with a half-able Adams, we were still 3rd in the season; however, we completely imploded in the Flyers' series and got worse, in general, down the stretch.
It might seem as though it might have been good to swap around our personnel after that drop-off, but Michalek and Staal were incredible penalty-killers. Michalek had a ton of blocked shots and Staal was an absolute beast. Although Sutter and Glass are great penalty-killers up front, I am seriously concerned about the backend. Orpik and Martin could barely PK at all last year. Orpik is now a year older and Martin isn't going to get tougher in front of the net any time soon.
So, our units would conceivably look like the following:
The defense on those units scares me. We could go from 3rd in the league to potentially 15th or lower. Unless Harrington/Dumoulin makes a special guest appearance, I don't believe anyone is quite ready to step up to that task on D.
What affect will this turn-over have on the team? How well do you believe the forward groups will mesh? Will the units get better with time, perhaps? Any thoughts would be great.
Last edited by Ominous Grey: 07-04-2012 at 12:57 PM.
Vitale should get good PK minutes, he's good on the dot. Engelland hasn't looked terrible when killing penalties, Strait or Bortuzzo would take some PK minutes if they make the team
Vitale should get good PK minutes, he's good on the dot. Engelland hasn't looked terrible when killing penalties, Strait or Bortuzzo would take some PK minutes if they make the team
Agreed on Vitale.
None of Engelland, Strait, Bortuzzo are exactly shut-down guys. They can definitely play limited time (second unit), but when Orpik inevitably implodes, I doubt any of them will be able to log those hard minutes against top offensive players.
the penguins need a big, crease-clearing and short-blocking d-man that can muck things up for the other team. they've missed that for years but they've been able to get by with a good pk in the regular season, but fail when things get tougher in the postseason.
forwards aren't super important to a good pk-- many guys can fill that role.
the penguins need a big, crease-clearing and short-blocking d-man that can muck things up for the other team. they've missed that for years but they've been able to get by with a good pk in the regular season, but fail when things get tougher in the postseason.
forwards aren't super important to a good pk-- many guys can fill that role.
Agreed, but we HAVE to look at the long-term picture. With Sid signed, and our core so young, we have to do what's best for the team beyond this year, as much as wanting to improve immediately.
Bortuzzo is 6'4; Despres is 6'4 and Dumoulin is 6'4. Harrington is an ELITE shotblocker & PKer, even though he's not 6'4. We're in great shape going forward -- even if we have to "endure" one more season as we let these guy develop. I expect Bortuzzo on this team full-time next year, and there's a decent chance one of Despres/Dumoulin makes it, as well.
Agreed, but we HAVE to look at the long-term picture. With Sid signed, and our core so young, we have to do what's best for the team beyond this year, as much as wanting to improve immediately.
Bortuzzo is 6'4; Despres is 6'4 and Dumoulin is 6'4. Harrington is an ELITE shotblocker & PKer, even though he's not 6'4. We're in great shape going forward -- even if we have to "endure" one more season as we let these guy develop. I expect Bortuzzo on this team full-time next year, and there's a decent chance one of Despres/Dumoulin makes it, as well.
yeah, i agree with looking to the future, but you also don't want to waste prime years of the core while young guys struggle/learn. there are no guarantees that malkin or letang won't leave town in the next few years.
ideally the pens could find a stopgap guy. or have one of those players you mention really have a fantastic rookie campaign. sounds like dumoulin with his good positioning and long reach could be that guy, maybe.
Dumoulin and Harrington are great choices after this year, and potentially Maata.
However, this season could be shaky. Michalek was a much bigger force back there than people realize. His shot blocking was incredible at times. And the transition from Staal to Sutter will take some serious time to come together.
Just don't be shocked if it sucks at the beginning of the year. I think it will get better as the year goes on, but I do have concerns.
Not sure how Niskanen's going to jump from the 6th PK dmen to the 2nd.
The only other person who would go ahead of him would be Martin, and an Orpik-Martin pairing is what nightmares are made of.
Letang is going to have to eat up even more minutes this year, seeing as he is the only capable top defenseman we have. Why would we waste even more of his energy on the PK?
yeah, i agree with looking to the future, but you also don't want to waste prime years of the core while young guys struggle/learn. there are no guarantees that malkin or letang won't leave town in the next few years.
ideally the pens could find a stopgap guy. or have one of those players you mention really have a fantastic rookie campaign. sounds like dumoulin with his good positioning and long reach could be that guy, maybe.
Bortuzzo and Strait are ready to play. They have been well groomed and deserve the chance to play regular minutes. Despres/Dumoulin (or both) can replace Orpik next season.
The only spot that we could stand to upgrade is a partner for Letang on the top pair. I think Bouwmeester is a better partner for Letang than Martin. That's why I keep proposing it. He's becoming so bashed on these boards that he's quickly becoming underrated. Fine, he's not a #1 or the next Lidstrom. But he's a damn good player. People here should remember to be THRILLED if Morrow/Despres/Dumoulin turn out to be that good. There aren't too many "Letangs/Webers/Charas" out there.
The only other person who would go ahead of him would be Martin, and an Orpik-Martin pairing is what nightmares are made of.
Letang is going to have to eat up even more minutes this year, seeing as he is the only capable top defenseman we have. Why would we waste even more of his energy on the PK?
I don't see a problem with putting Engel on the PK. He looked really strong last season. In fact, I can't remember a single mistake he made in the playoff series. I'm sure he made a couple, I just don't remember them being apparent.
None of Engelland, Strait, Bortuzzo are exactly shut-down guys. They can definitely play limited time (second unit), but when Orpik inevitably implodes, I doubt any of them will be able to log those hard minutes against top offensive players.
If you don't think Strait and Bortuzzo aren't shutdown guys then I'd argue that you haven't really seen them play that much. That's exactly the types of players they project to be.
They might not be elite level players but they have the potential to be more than serviceable.
I think the PK is a concern. Not a huge one, but a concern none the less. Losing Michalek on the back end will hurt the PK the most. One of Strait/Bort really need to step up in this situation. But I think mostly we just need some system tweaks and get Sid or Geno involved in the PK here and there (although with adding Glass I don't see it happening).
If you don't think Strait and Bortuzzo aren't shutdown guys then I'd argue that you haven't really seen them play that much. That's exactly the types of players they project to be.
They might not be elite level players but they have the potential to be more than serviceable.
Exactly.
Some thought Strait-Bortuzzo was the best shut-down pair in the AHL. I'm pretty sure that means they played on the PK. Strait is a definite stay at home guy, and while Bortuzzo likes to join the rush a little bit, he is still a defense-first player, and has a huge wing-span that will be useful on the PK if he gets deployed there.
