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Summer 2012 Free Agency - Part Elf: May the Shea Be With Us

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07-08-2012, 04:51 PM
  #326
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
The thing is, none of us know who is really available and what they would cost. How many times is a guy traded and you can't believe the cost wasn't higher?

One thing that is true though, is that these type of players are always going to be available. It just has always been this way for years... Joe Mullen cost CP a second because of his neck and age... And he just lit it up and was a huge part of the Pens mini dynasty.

These guys are always out there and their GMs will have their own reasons for moving them. It could be a second, a first rounder even, maybe a combo of one of those picks and a prospect. The point is they don't have to gut the farm for a Nash, Ryan, or (insert big name) who is on the market, to find a top six solution.



He had every reason to play lights out this year and he didn't.

Maybe he is motivated by pride after being called out as a dog by so many media people, GMs like Rutherford and his old team kicking him to the curb, but until I see it happen, he isn't the type of player I trust laying it all on the line when it matters the most.

But again I'd hold my tongue and give him a chance if it came to that. Everyone deserves a chance to redeem themselves.
I want Sid to have his Neal. That's going to cost more than a draft pick. That's my only point. If the trade isn't there then yeah, go after some other options. Ideally two.

I don't get why the same people who say they're cool with Sid being flanked by Kunitz and Dupuis are all about trading for Ryan or Nash. Sid doesn't need an elite talent. Find a capable sniper with some upside and another gritty winger to make our top 6 harder to play against.

Semin could very well be a bust here. And he certainly doesn't play to his ability nearly enough. But I see a real chance for us to get him to play to that ability here. Better leadership group and some real motivation to play at a higher level.

We don't need him to be dynamite. Neal isn't a guy who can create a whole lot on his own either. Throw both those players on their offwings with our centers and I'll take my chances.

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07-08-2012, 04:53 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by ForzaItalia View Post
7 goals in his last 30 playoff games. Shero ain't touching this guy.
Whatever you say Ray. He brought more this postseason than Ovy did. You'd be against acquiring him for free for a couple years?

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07-08-2012, 04:55 PM
  #328
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Whatever you say Ray. He brought more this postseason than Ovy did. You'd be against acquiring him for free for a couple years?
No he didn't. Ovy faced Chara/Seidenberg all series long and gave more than he took from them. Faced the Rangers top D pair the next series too. Semin always folds in the playoffs.

If Semin matched Ovie's goals, Caps would have beaten the Rangers.

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07-08-2012, 04:59 PM
  #329
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@shepfx Im hearing it’s down to Wings, Pens and KHL. Caps are now long shot. Things can change quickly

Same guy person earlier that said Pens were growing tired of waiting for Semin to decide.

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07-08-2012, 05:00 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by ForzaItalia View Post
No he didn't. Ovy faced Chara/Seidenberg all series long and gave more than he took from them. Faced the Rangers top D pair the next series too. Semin always folds in the playoffs.
Dude, I'm not gonna argue with you over Alex Semin. He's not an ideal solution to our wing issues. But he's one I'd take a chance on. He owns one of the best shots in the game, despite what many say he's a solid defensive forward and IMO, he'll follow Sid/Geno's lead and play hard here to turn his career around.

If we don't sign him, we dont' sign him. But it's foolish to think Shero isn't at least thinking about it.

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07-08-2012, 05:05 PM
  #331
Mr Jiggyfly
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I want Sid to have his Neal. That's going to cost more than a draft pick. That's my only point. If the trade isn't there then yeah, go after some other options. Ideally two.

I don't get why the same people who say they're cool with Sid being flanked by Kunitz and Dupuis are all about trading for Ryan or Nash. Sid doesn't need an elite talent. Find a capable sniper with some upside and another gritty winger to make our top 6 harder to play against.

Semin could very well be a bust here. And he certainly doesn't play to his ability nearly enough. But I see a real chance for us to get him to play to that ability here. Better leadership group and some real motivation to play at a higher level.

We don't need him to be dynamite. Neal isn't a guy who can create a whole lot on his own either. Throw both those players on their offwings with our centers and I'll take my chances.
You may be right, maybe Shero goes after a big name and uses a number of assets to do so.

But that doesn't have to happen for him to find a legit winger for Crosby.

One of those scenarios is bound to happen though before the playoffs. That is the one thing I'm sure of. This team needs to build around their two superstars.

As for Semin, anything is possible and I would gladly admit I was wrong next Spring and give him his due, if need be.

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07-08-2012, 05:10 PM
  #332
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I would mind trying:

Cooke-Crosby-Semin
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Dupuis-Sutter-Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Tangradi for W
Jeffrey for C

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07-08-2012, 05:13 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
I would mind trying:

Cooke-Crosby-Semin
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Dupuis-Sutter-Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Tangradi for W
Jeffrey for C
why would you possibly switch Dupuis and Cooke?

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Old
07-08-2012, 05:13 PM
  #334
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You may be right, maybe Shero goes after a big name and uses a number of assets to do so.

But that doesn't have to happen for him to find a legit winger for Crosby.

One of those scenarios is bound to happen though before the playoffs. That is the one thing I'm sure of. This team needs to build around their two superstars.

As for Semin, anything is possible and I would gladly admit I was wrong next Spring and give him his due, if need be.
Dupuis/Sid/Vermette wouldn't be enough for me to be comfortable going into the playoffs. We need to go after two lesser options if we can't find Sid his longterm linemate.

If Semin plays like **** for an entire playoff series and we lose, then I'll say it was a bad move for sure. Is it really that hard for him to fire pucks on net and work some give and gos with Geno? He hasn't had a center who can drive the play before. Only spot duty with Backstrom. I'm interested to see what he can do.

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07-08-2012, 05:16 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Dupuis/Sid/Vermette wouldn't be enough for me to be comfortable going into the playoffs. We need to go after two lesser options if we can't find Sid his longterm linemate.

If Semin plays like **** for an entire playoff series and we lose, then I'll say it was a bad move for sure. Is it really that hard for him to fire pucks on net and work some give and gos with Geno? He hasn't had a center who can drive the play before. Only spot duty with Backstrom. I'm interested to see what he can do.
If we are looking for one guy that is fairly easily acquired, we should be moving Kunitz back with Sid and looking for a guy to play 3rd wheel to Geno and Neal. It's a much easier position to fill.

If we are getting two lesser options, one of them is for Sid and Kunitz and the other is for Geno and Neal imo. As it stands today, I see our top 6 as this

Kunitz - Sid - Dupuis
Tangradi/TK - Malkin - Neal

That is the best top 6 we can make without signing anybody. The biggest hole is clearly on Geno's left wing. To change these combinations, you would need to bring in someone better than Kunitz.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 07-08-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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Old
07-08-2012, 05:16 PM
  #336
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My biggest fear is injuries. Even if it's relatively short term this team needs to have some sort of other offensive weapon. A true top 6 winger must be aquired.

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07-08-2012, 05:19 PM
  #337
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If we sign Semin, I'd experiment with these lines:

Dupuis - Crosby - Neal
Kunitz - Malkin - Semin

Neither Cooke nor Kennedy are top six players. Dupuis isn't ideal, but he's a Hell of a lot better of an option than either of those two.

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07-08-2012, 05:20 PM
  #338
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Would love to see Semin and Doan brought in. Ship TK off somewhere. If we can land one of Semin or Doan, ship TK + to Minnesota for Clutterbuck.

Kunitz - Crosby - Doan
Semin - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Dupuis

That's a mean top 9.

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07-08-2012, 05:22 PM
  #339
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why would you possibly switch Dupuis and Cooke?
I think Cooke is a grittier forechecker than Dupuis. Plus...I reeeally liked the way Cooke played with Crosby when he got back.

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07-08-2012, 05:23 PM
  #340
Ogrezilla
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I think Cooke is a grittier forechecker than Dupuis. Plus...I reeeally liked the way Cooke played with Crosby when he got back.

Cooke is just not as good as Dupuis. Grittier or not.

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07-08-2012, 05:26 PM
  #341
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I think Cooke is a grittier forechecker than Dupuis. Plus...I reeeally liked the way Cooke played with Crosby when he got back.
Did you like seeing Sid on pace for 140pts and 65g with Dupuis on his wing?

Cooke is a third liner, and not even a fringe one at that. Dupuis has shown time and time again he works on Sid's wing. It's not always pretty, but it works well.

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07-08-2012, 05:26 PM
  #342
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Dupuis/Sid/Vermette wouldn't be enough for me to be comfortable going into the playoffs. We need to go after two lesser options if we can't find Sid his longterm linemate.

If Semin plays like **** for an entire playoff series and we lose, then I'll say it was a bad move for sure. Is it really that hard for him to fire pucks on net and work some give and gos with Geno? He hasn't had a center who can drive the play before. Only spot duty with Backstrom. I'm interested to see what he can do.
It isn't can he score... I have little doubt he would pot 30 goals with Crosby or Malkin spoon feeding him.

However, will Semin be willing to get ****ed up to shield the boards and let the puck glide out of the zone at a critical point in an important playoff game, rather then trying to play the puck and protect himself?

Will he go to the net and take the punishment in front to score those greasy playoff goals that are so important to winning?

I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the idea...

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07-08-2012, 05:27 PM
  #343
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Cooke's not even that much grittier these days.

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07-08-2012, 05:28 PM
  #344
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come on Semin just sign elsewhere already so we can move on to talking about the next player Shero is targeting haha.

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07-08-2012, 05:28 PM
  #345
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Few things reading through these posts...

Not a big fan of trading Despres for Chris Stewart. Defense is the area we need to focus on in the coming years, and Despres is just as about as close to NHL action as any other major prospect on this roster. We waited this long on Mr. Simon Despres, his time is now. I see him as a future staple for our top-4 for a long time, provided Shero locks him up. Chris Stewart, though has had some impressive years, seems to be falling off (pathetic season last year). I would like to know if he had character issues last year or just failed in Hitchcock's system?

I'd say overall though, their value is close, but looking at pure upside I believe that Simon Despres has too much value to our organization at this point. Feeling the same about Joe Morrow. A few players I would include Despres/Morrow in a trade for, though, that maybe Shero is looking at would be Ryan, Marleau, Grabner...

I think at this point Shero realizes he needs to reload the gun on the defensive end, and what better place to start than with a guy like Despres. If he outplays Strait and Bortuzzo he will play all season in the pros IMO.


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07-08-2012, 05:30 PM
  #346
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Only way I'd trade Despres is if it were in a package for a player the caliber of Bobby Ryan. I have no interest in dealing him otherwise.

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07-08-2012, 05:33 PM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
It isn't can he score... I have little doubt he would pot 30 goals with Crosby or Malkin spoon feeding him.

However, will Semin be willing to get ****ed up to shield the boards and let the puck glide out of the zone at a critical point in an important playoff game, rather then trying to play the puck and protect himself?

Will he go to the net and take the punishment in front to score those greasy playoff goals that are so important to winning?

I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the idea...
The answer to all of those questions is clearly no. He's proven himself not to be that type of player over and over again.

Semin isn't going to push this team any further into the playoffs than they'd get without him.

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07-08-2012, 05:35 PM
  #348
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I'd say overall though, their value is close, but looking at pure upside I believe that Simon Despres has too much value to our organization at this point. Feeling the same about Joe Morrow. A few players I would include Despres/Morrow in a trade for, though, that maybe Shero is looking at would be Ryan, Marleau, Grabner...
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong...

Grabner is pretty mediocre. He's basically Mason Raymond: blazing speed, no hands, no shot, no finish.

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07-08-2012, 05:39 PM
  #349
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One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong...

Grabner is pretty mediocre. He's basically Mason Raymond: blazing speed, no hands, no shot, no finish.
He'd be an easy solution to a Crosby wing situation, especially if Semin signs somewhere else.

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07-08-2012, 05:41 PM
  #350
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I guess it's just a matter of expectations with Alex Semin. I know he's not going to bang bodies and a lot of other little things but he will put some pucks in the net. That's all I'd need him to do in the role that I'd give him. We have 2 elite centers. We have great defensively responsible 3rd wheels like Dupuis, Kunitz etc. Semin just needs to get to scoring areas and finish off chances. I think he can do that much.

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