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Summer 2012 Free Agency - Part Elf: May the Shea Be With Us

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Old
07-08-2012, 10:58 AM
  #151
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
You're putting Semin in the spot to fully get his potential out of him with Malkin and Neal. Now what happens if you put Semin with Crosby and Dupuis and he is in a Semin slacker mode being the number two on the line. it won't bode well if you're icing two 3rd wheels.

Some seem to forget the Caps line of Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin line was pretty deadly and I would consider Semin, Malkin, Neal its equal or better than it. For one, it takes all the pressure off the Crosby line and should make teams focus a good amount of their match ups against the Malkin line. Sid is Sid and he'll do just fine either way.
Disagree with this so much.

Just because Crosby has shown that he can produce at an astronomical level with suboptimal wingers doesn't mean that you should continue to force him to do so.

Putting highly skilled players will actually take more pressure off of him than putting all of your winger talent on one line.

Some people need to remember how they flipped out last year during Sid's 2nd comeback. While he was able to make pretty passes to Cooke, there were a lot of games where teams just suffocated him because of the lack of talent on the wings, leading some posters to question whether he was hurt again or not, etc...

Some of his issues were clearly rust, timing, rhythm, etc... but having someone on his line who commands some defensive attention will go a long way towards helping Sid have room to be Sid.

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07-08-2012, 11:02 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
You're putting Semin in the spot to fully get his potential out of him with Malkin and Neal. Now what happens if you put Semin with Crosby and Dupuis and he is in a Semin slacker mode being the number two on the line. it won't bode well if you're icing two 3rd wheels.

Some seem to forget the Caps line of Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin line was pretty deadly and I would consider Semin, Malkin, Neal its equal or better than it. For one, it takes all the pressure off the Crosby line and should make teams focus a good amount of their match ups against the Malkin line. Sid is Sid and he'll do just fine either way.
Completely disagree. It's about fitting the pieces together. You have your shooters, your passers and your grinders. You want one of each per line.

Kunitz - Malkin - Neal is a better line than Semin - Malkin - Neal. Semin is a better player than Kunitz, but he doesn't fit the line as well as Kunitz does.

Meanwhile, Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis is not as good as Semin - Crosby - Dupuis. One guy for each role is the way to go.

Putting Semin and Neal together would effectively downgrade both of our top 6 lines.

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07-08-2012, 11:05 AM
  #153
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No he's not.



Oh, so we're gonna start following the Caps' lead now? I don't think so. Neal is Malkin's shooter, Semin would be Crosby's. It's an easy decision.
Except the Caps never had the double factor we have here and never had what it opposes to other teams.

I don't think it's as simple as that. Unless the words come from DB/Sid we are all setting personal preferences. Me included, but I doubt Sid is saying I want Semin on my line. Don't see it over Kunitz, maybe over Dupuis, highly doubt that too.

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07-08-2012, 11:06 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Except the Caps never had the double factor we have here and never had what it opposes to other teams.

I don't think it's as simple as that. Unless the words come from DB/Sid we are all setting personal preferences. Me included, but I doubt Sid is saying I want Semin on my line. Don't see it over Kunitz, maybe over Dupuis, highly doubt that too.
If he doesn't want to play with Semin, fine. Let him play with Neal. If Semin is being brought in to play with Malkin and Neal, don't bring in Semin. Bring in some bruiser that can fight in the corners and go to the net. Trade for Malone or Kulemin or something. Either would make the Malkin-Neal line better than Semin would.

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07-08-2012, 11:06 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Thank you, O. Eaton is a terrible idea. He's an injury prone, bottom pairing Dman who brings as much physicality to the team as Martin.


And to Ugene Melkin: As for Strait & Bortuzzo: these guys are not rookies in the conventional sense. They are 24/23 years old and have played a full 3 seasons in the AHL, excelling in that league and in the Pens' system, while also getting cups of coffee with the big club -- Strait doing so even in playoff games. These prospects are "overripe" and ready to play.


Don't believe me? Well, believe Shero then when he says that in Strait & Bortuzzo "we have to NHL defensemen playing in the AHL" and deserve their shot. Deal with it.
I don't know, to me Strait and Bortuzzo have to prove that they are NHL defensemen. The same thing was said about Lovejoy when he was our best defenseman in the AHL a few years ago. Now he's toiling as our #7 and everyone wants to get rid of him. Strait seems undersized and doesn't really excel in one aspect of the game. Bortuzzo is tall but is a stand up skater and isn't strong as you'd hope for someone his size. I don't know why so many people on this board are anointing them as legit nhl defensemen without them actually proving anything yet. I think they'll end up as #7's with spot duty on the 3rd pairing. If we go into the playoffs with either of them playing I'll be worried.

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07-08-2012, 11:12 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
If he doesn't want to play with Semin, fine. Let him play with Neal. If Semin is being brought in to play with Malkin and Neal, don't bring in Semin. Bring in some bruiser that can fight in the corners and go to the net. Trade for Malone or Kulemin or something. Either would make the Malkin-Neal line better than Semin would.
I can agree with this, any of those guys and Kostitsyn are perfect third wheels. Semin at the cap cost would be a luxury for the extra 15 to 20 points and suspect play that would be no more than the others.

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07-08-2012, 11:15 AM
  #157
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5th and 6th spot should be depres and the other should be pouliot there both 1st round picks develop them they will surprise

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07-08-2012, 11:16 AM
  #158
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TK does not get enough credit must I remind everyone if he plays 82 games he scores around 20 and helps twenty more, not to mention his work ethic catches like a wild fire.,
TK must be a relative based on your location

TK needs to learn how to pass the puck and quit shooting into the chest of a goaltender. He was hilarious when he played with Crosby. Even Sid joked about him not passing the puck.

I wouldn't have as much a gripe against TK if he was a good on the PK and helped the team in other areas than even strength. Use that hustle to play defense better.

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Old
07-08-2012, 11:18 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
I can agree with this, any of those guys and Kostitsyn are perfect third wheels. Semin at the cap cost would be a luxury for the extra 15 to 20 points and suspect play that would be no more than the others.
Sid could really use a 2nd wheel before we start looking for 3rd wheels though. Kunitz and Dupuis can do it, but they aren't ideal. They are sort of 2.5 and 3.5 wheels.

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07-08-2012, 11:18 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
I can agree with this, any of those guys and Kostitsyn are perfect third wheels. Semin at the cap cost would be a luxury for the extra 15 to 20 points and suspect play that would be no more than the others.
I want Sid/Geno to each have their skilled shooter. Throw in guys who can cause turnovers and play defensively responsible hockey as their third wheels.

Why anyone would want anything different, I don't quite understand.

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07-08-2012, 11:20 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Thank you, O. Eaton is a terrible idea. He's an injury prone, bottom pairing Dman who brings as much physicality to the team as Martin.


And to Ugene Melkin: As for Strait & Bortuzzo: these guys are not rookies in the conventional sense. They are 24/23 years old and have played a full 3 seasons in the AHL, excelling in that league and in the Pens' system, while also getting cups of coffee with the big club -- Strait doing so even in playoff games. These prospects are "overripe" and ready to play.


Don't believe me? Well, believe Shero then when he says that in Strait & Bortuzzo "we have to NHL defensemen playing in the AHL" and deserve their shot. Deal with it.
I will deal with it, but will all of you when our window grows and we're waiting an extra season or two before they actually put a serious run together. Meaning getting out of the first round and actually making a conference finals appearance at least?

Bortuzzo & Strait are hardly proven NHL assets. Like I said before, most of you are in the "If" factor here and you're straying into almost saying they're NHL D-man as a fact like they have already proven their worth. They've proven they deserve a shot, not that they'll stick.

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07-08-2012, 11:20 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by jdpitt05 View Post
I don't know, to me Strait and Bortuzzo have to prove that they are NHL defensemen. The same thing was said about Lovejoy when he was our best defenseman in the AHL a few years ago. Now he's toiling as our #7 and everyone wants to get rid of him. Strait seems undersized and doesn't really excel in one aspect of the game. Bortuzzo is tall but is a stand up skater and isn't strong as you'd hope for someone his size. I don't know why so many people on this board are anointing them as legit nhl defensemen without them actually proving anything yet. I think they'll end up as #7's with spot duty on the 3rd pairing. If we go into the playoffs with either of them playing I'll be worried.
Yeah he's real undersized at 6'1 200lbs.

It sounds like you haven't watched them play a single game & your just crapping on them to crap on them. The rest of have watched them in the AHL or the 20 some NHL games they've played in. They are ready for the NHL & it's time to find out what kind of players they can be.

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07-08-2012, 11:22 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Sid could really use a 2nd wheel before we start looking for 3rd wheels though. Kunitz and Dupuis can do it, but they aren't ideal. They are sort of 2.5 and 3.5 wheels.
Exactly. Get Sid a ****ing legit talent on his line. You're gonna wear the guy down over the next few years forcing him to produce against double and triple coverage with the quality of linemates around him.

I for one would love to see what 2010 Sid can do with someone who can beat defenders one on one.

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07-08-2012, 11:22 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
TK must be a relative based on your location

TK needs to learn how to pass the puck and quit shooting into the chest of a goaltender. He was hilarious when he played with Crosby. Even Sid joked about him not passing the puck.

I wouldn't have as much a gripe against TK if he was a good on the PK and helped the team in other areas than even strength. Use that hustle to play defense better.
no on relative however have watch him play, i agree with you about pk, but his numbers are decent and should not be overlooked when trying to replace him ,

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07-08-2012, 11:25 AM
  #165
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Exactly. Get Sid a ****ing legit talent on his line. You're gonna wear the guy down over the next few years forcing him to produce against double and triple coverage with the quality of linemates around him.

I for one would love to see what 2010 Sid can do with someone who can beat defenders one on one.
I just want him to have two wingers that are worth covering. Someone that can score if they leave him wide open.

If he could have two Kunitz's I'd be thrilled. Anything better is just gravy. Gravy that we can afford for the first time in years

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07-08-2012, 11:27 AM
  #166
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no on relative however have watch him play, i agree with you about pp, but his numbers are decent and should not be overlooked when trying to replace him ,
if he gets replaced, its almost certainly going to be by Dupuis. Dupuis has better numbers. Dupuis has better everything actually.

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07-08-2012, 11:30 AM
  #167
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I hope Ovechkin has another down year...and has more issues...

I'd love to work out a trade
F THAT! Yah, please give me a guy who's got a hit of $9.5M until 2021, will cost us a star player and blue chip prospects being sent to a primary rival, and who plays a one dimensional game every chance he gets, plus takes runs at people when there's no call for it. (Please, don't talk to me about how "Hunter changed him with his TOI punishments" because he didn't change him - first thing he said about his new coach (in effect) was he was happy to be playing for an offense first coach).

This is typical NHL13 thinking; Ovechkin would be costly in more ways than one, not worth the goals he scores (Neal can score almost as many in a good year), etc. I'm surprised at you and the Navy SEALS are surprised at you. What are you, a sympathizer for the Russian mob (Ovy has connections - not a clean cut guy like Malkin).


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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Just remember something, some of you guys:

As long as Semin's contract did not have a NMC, we could send him to the minors. He also could very well have some value by trade, as well, if we didn't need him. And the additional possibility -- especially with Russian players -- is he could be "loaned" out to a KHL team where not only is his cap hit off the books, but so is the actual salary, because we wouldn't have to pay him in that scenario, and his KHL team would pay him instead.

So if this contract were structured the right way (ie no NMC), I see virtually ZERO risk. So give him the extra years if that's what it takes to get it done, because I think there's more upside than downside, and there's also an exit strategy if it doesn't work out.
Interesting points but doubt he'd agree to it.


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Yeah, no idea ... that's why I was asking if anyone had heard anything.
Yah, the Kings have 0.0 reasons to trade Scuds. Common man, let the realist in you take the reigns for a while.

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07-08-2012, 11:35 AM
  #168
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Chest snipe kennedy just isn't a top 6 player. Here or on anyteam imo. I'm not gonna sit and argue about pp time and fair chances this and that. He just does not have the skillset to play with high end forwards. There is zero patience in his game everything he does is rushed. He's made a nice niche and payday for himself he's a 3rd line guy that's what he is. And if he leaves tomorrow I won't miss him for a second or his contract. My true hope is shero can pull the wool over someones eyes and convince them he could play in the top 6 on a bad team and get something for him.

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07-08-2012, 11:38 AM
  #169
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Sid could really use a 2nd wheel before we start looking for 3rd wheels though. Kunitz and Dupuis can do it, but they aren't ideal. They are sort of 2.5 and 3.5 wheels.
Here's the difference. One center (Sid) has proven he can do more without. The other center (Geno) has to have a supporting cast or he's not as effective. It's literally night and day.

Semin on Sid LW will sacrifice a major amount of aggressiveness. Dupuis is not that physical to make up the difference.

You're putting the players where you'll know they'll succeed. There's no guessing, there's no "If" factor involved at all.

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07-08-2012, 11:39 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Here's the difference. One center (Sid) has proven he can do more without. The other center (Geno) has to have a supporting cast or he's not as effective. It's literally night and day.

Semin on Sid LW will sacrifice a major amount of aggressiveness. Dupuis is not that physical to make up the difference.

You're putting the players where you'll know they'll succeed. There's no guessing, there's no "If" factor involved at all.
I think you are very very wrong. whatever.

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07-08-2012, 11:41 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Here's the difference. One center (Sid) has proven he can do more without. The other center (Geno) has to have a supporting cast or he's not as effective. It's literally night and day.
I think that's really oversimplifying things.

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07-08-2012, 11:41 AM
  #172
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I just want him to have two wingers that are worth covering. Someone that can score if they leave him wide open.

If he could have two Kunitz's I'd be thrilled. Anything better is just gravy. Gravy that we can afford for the first time in years
It just annoys me that so many on here are fine with him playing with anything short of what a 1st line center should have. We have the cap space, and now the need to surround him with more talent with Staal's departure.

Just b/c he has proven he can produce in any circumstance, doesn't mean we should force him to do so while he's in his prime years. Get that man some skill on his wing.

If we don't sign Semin and have to go through trade, I'm pretty much sold on giving St. Louis whatever the **** they want for Stewart.

I know it in my bones that he'll blow up here same as Neal. Solves so many issues. He'll throw down with anyone who messes with Sid. Excellent skater who can keep up with Sid especially off the rush. RHS and potential net front guy on the PP. Can score goals in bunches around the net, a skillset we sorely lack.

We wouldn't have the opportunity to trade for him if he wasn't having consistency issues and not having a longterm place there with their high end forward talent coming in.

I'll be pissed if he's moved to another team and Shero didn't inquire about him.

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07-08-2012, 11:41 AM
  #173
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I think you are very very wrong. whatever.
We can't agree on everything.

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07-08-2012, 11:45 AM
  #174
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It just annoys me that so many on here are fine with him playing with anything short of what a 1st line center should have. We have the cap space, and now the need to surround him with more talent with Staal's departure.

Just b/c he has proven he can produce in any circumstance, doesn't mean we should force him to do so while he's in his prime years. Get that man some skill on his wing.

If we don't sign Semin and have to go through trade, I'm pretty much sold on giving St. Louis whatever the **** they want for Stewart.

I know it in my bones that he'll blow up here same as Neal. Solves so many issues. He'll throw down with anyone who messes with Sid. Excellent skater who can keep up with Sid especially off the rush. RHS and potential net front guy on the PP. Can score goals in bunches around the net, a skillset we sorely lack.

We wouldn't have the opportunity to trade for him if he wasn't having consistency issues and not having a longterm place there with their high end forward talent coming in.

I'll be pissed if he's moved to another team and Shero didn't make inquire about him.
You just need to remember we have two of them. #1 centers that is. Staals departure only freed up a couple mil. this season. This team seriously downgraded to this point.

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I think that's really oversimplifying things.
Gets right to the root of it all though.

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07-08-2012, 11:46 AM
  #175
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This physicality thing is blown way out of proportion here. You don't have to put guys into the 2nd row gary roberts style to be effective. I will agree the pens are too soff as a whole. But you can't have a team of all bangers. Crosby and dupuis are puckhounds they cause turnovers with their speed and both are effectively physical. Semin would be the trigger man on that line bennefitting from turnovers and their speed transition game. Take alook at some video semin is an effective passer too has a high sense of where to be be etc. I'm not a huge dupuis fan. But trust me a semin crosby dupuis line would cause havoc on defenses and goalies.

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