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The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2012 4.0

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Old
01-25-2013, 01:20 PM
  #826
Monctonscout
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Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy him out rather than pay him for the next 18 years, though?
They'd have to spend money to replace his production and still spend to the cap floor at least.

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01-25-2013, 02:16 PM
  #827
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Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy him out rather than pay him for the next 18 years, though?
But they seem happy enough with the status quo. The only reason I'd see them buy Vinny out is to free up cap space.

They see the world differently then us, he's their guy, for better or worse. Maybe in a couple of years they'll buy him out or retire him but that will have to wait until then.

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01-25-2013, 02:51 PM
  #828
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"Yes he is"? Why even bother contradicting me with that? I mean, he's not as good as Subban. He's older than Subban. He hasn't proven to be nearly as valuable. But, you disagree (based on what? his draft position?) and contradict me with 'yes he is'. Compelling stuff.
Because your affirmation is in itself over the top by saying "he isn't close".

If you had said something along the line, "Johnson can't replace Subban", I would have argued more, but saying he isn't close... well, let's just say he is...

As for being older, we're talking 1 year here, virtually the same age. In his first 2 years, Johnson showed as much if not more than Subban, btw...

Right now, I would prefer Subban on this team than Johnson, but if we have to trade Subban, Johnson is a very interesting candidate. He's young, has good size, good offensive instinct, still raw defensively... and signed to a relatively cheap contract for 3 more years.

If Colorado can add their 1st or a good young player/prospect, I'd say we listen.

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:43 PM
  #829
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Because your affirmation is in itself over the top by saying "he isn't close".

If you had said something along the line, "Johnson can't replace Subban", I would have argued more, but saying he isn't close... well, let's just say he is...

As for being older, we're talking 1 year here, virtually the same age. In his first 2 years, Johnson showed as much if not more than Subban, btw...

Right now, I would prefer Subban on this team than Johnson, but if we have to trade Subban, Johnson is a very interesting candidate. He's young, has good size, good offensive instinct, still raw defensively... and signed to a relatively cheap contract for 3 more years.

If Colorado can add their 1st or a good young player/prospect, I'd say we listen.
Erik Johnson can't handle top line opposition. With favourable match ups and zone starts, and the most PP time among Colorado defensemen, he could only toss up 26 points. That's bad. He's poor on the penalty kill. He doesn't begin to replace Subban.

I'm not meaning to pick on you here, and I do like Johnson, but he's really a decent second pairing defenseman. I'd like him as a project second pair guy if the club had a stalwart alongside him -- absent that, he's a defenseman that needs to be protected and coddled.

You can argue that he's a project that has the tools, but Subban's a player who's got those same tools and he's already put them together. I'm not exaggerating when I say they're not in the same league; Subban's a capable shut-down defenseman who's strong in transition, can move the puck up the ice, excels on the PK and has some refining to do on the PP but he's already decent there too. He's comfortably a top pairing defenseman, and borderline #1 on a solid club. Really, they may be similar in raw tools, but that's largely irrelevant when one player (who's younger) is actually utilising those tools while the other isn't.

There are no comparable defensemen available in a trade, I don't think. Johnson would come and slide in behind Markov and Gorges and be a nuisance to coach, as he'd be yet another defenseman that needed to be protected.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:18 PM
  #830
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Kaberle + Weber + Eller + Beaulieu + Leblanc + 1 first pick 2013 + a second round draft pick 2013 for Corey Perry

Habs make a push this year for the Stanley Cup with their great dmen, great goalie and a good forward group with the addition of Perry.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:32 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Mario Lemieux fan 66 View Post
Kaberle + Weber + Eller + Beaulieu + Leblanc + 1 first pick 2013 + a second round draft pick 2013 for Corey Perry

Habs make a push this year for the Stanley Cup with their great dmen, great goalie and a good forward group with the addition of Perry.
Perry the UFA leaves in 6 months and we find this team to be the Maple Leafs 2.0. No thank you, think about it.

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01-25-2013, 10:39 PM
  #832
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Perry the UFA leaves in 6 months and we find this team to be the Maple Leafs 2.0. No thank you, think about it.
If the Habs win the cup i don't care what Perry does. With Perry the Habs would be a really good team with a legit shot at the Stanley Cup. The Habs could instead target an other forward who is not UFA.

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01-25-2013, 10:50 PM
  #833
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Perry the UFA leaves in 6 months and we find this team to be the Maple Leafs 2.0. No thank you, think about it.
I think he's being sarcastic.

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01-25-2013, 11:02 PM
  #834
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I think he's being sarcastic.
I'm not sarcastic. If the Habs are top 5 in the east by the trade deadline why not go for the Stanley Cup if the key players are healthy ( Price, Markov, Subban, Plekanec and Pacioretty) ?

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01-26-2013, 12:44 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Mario Lemieux fan 66 View Post
I'm not sarcastic. If the Habs are top 5 in the east by the trade deadline why not go for the Stanley Cup if the key players are healthy ( Price, Markov, Subban, Plekanec and Pacioretty) ?
Because Perry != guaranteed cup. You're basically sacrificing the team's future for a gruesome bet on a 1 timer. I don't see any fan agreeing with this proposal any time soon, sorry.

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01-26-2013, 01:12 PM
  #836
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Half-serious proposal: PK for Phaneuf + Kadri

Pretty crazy, I know.

More serious trade proposal: Gionta for Nick Folingo. Nick is younger, feistier, has more size. The problem is that Gio has a NTC and may not want to go to Columbus.

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Old
01-26-2013, 01:42 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Mario Lemieux fan 66 View Post
Kaberle + Weber + Eller + Beaulieu + Leblanc + 1 first pick 2013 + a second round draft pick 2013 for Corey Perry

Habs make a push this year for the Stanley Cup with their great dmen, great goalie and a good forward group with the addition of Perry.
I'd rather we try and sign him in July then trade all those assets

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01-26-2013, 01:48 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Half-serious proposal: PK for Phaneuf + Kadri

Pretty crazy, I know.

More serious trade proposal: Gionta for Nick Folingo. Nick is younger, feistier, has more size. The problem is that Gio has a NTC and may not want to go to Columbus.
I would prefer Rielly to Phaneuf by a large margin.

Maybe Rielly + Kadri + Finn

for

PK Subban + Leblanc + 2nd.

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:05 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I'd rather we try and sign him in July then trade all those assets
My trade proposal was a move that the Habs could do if the are a Stanley cup contender (top 5 in the east) at the trade deadline and all the key players are healthy. Perry could make the difference beetween two rounds and the Stanley Cup.

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:08 PM
  #840
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Gardiner+ 1 rst round 2013 + 2nd round 2013 vs Subban+ Weber an a thrid round draft pick

Couturier+ Talbot + Bourdon + 1rst round 2013 vs Subban + Eller + Weber + 2nd round 2013

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:09 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I would prefer Rielly to Phaneuf by a large margin.

Maybe Rielly + Kadri + Finn

for

PK Subban + Leblanc + 2nd.
I put Dion in there I guess because I prefer gritty players. If we lose PK, i'd rather we have another guy that can skate and hit like PK.

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01-26-2013, 02:12 PM
  #842
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Erik Johnson can't handle top line opposition. With favourable match ups and zone starts, and the most PP time among Colorado defensemen, he could only toss up 26 points. That's bad. He's poor on the penalty kill. He doesn't begin to replace Subban.

I'm not meaning to pick on you here, and I do like Johnson, but he's really a decent second pairing defenseman. I'd like him as a project second pair guy if the club had a stalwart alongside him -- absent that, he's a defenseman that needs to be protected and coddled.

You can argue that he's a project that has the tools, but Subban's a player who's got those same tools and he's already put them together. I'm not exaggerating when I say they're not in the same league; Subban's a capable shut-down defenseman who's strong in transition, can move the puck up the ice, excels on the PK and has some refining to do on the PP but he's already decent there too. He's comfortably a top pairing defenseman, and borderline #1 on a solid club. Really, they may be similar in raw tools, but that's largely irrelevant when one player (who's younger) is actually utilising those tools while the other isn't.

There are no comparable defensemen available in a trade, I don't think. Johnson would come and slide in behind Markov and Gorges and be a nuisance to coach, as he'd be yet another defenseman that needed to be protected.
Ok, you're not underrating Johnson, just overrating PK

Seriously, I don't agree with your evaluation of PK. Yes, he did everything you said, but the results weren't exactly good (we were dead last with piss poor defense and defencemen), except on the PK, where he was the 3rd d-men used after Gill and Gorges.

Personnaly, I think he utterly sucks on the PP, because of poor decision making.

But, he's a work horse, plays well in all 3 zones and his one of, if not the most skilled defenceman in the league... but contrary to you, I'm far from seeing him as a finish product.

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:21 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Erik Johnson can't handle top line opposition. With favourable match ups and zone starts, and the most PP time among Colorado defensemen, he could only toss up 26 points. That's bad. He's poor on the penalty kill. He doesn't begin to replace Subban.

I'm not meaning to pick on you here, and I do like Johnson, but he's really a decent second pairing defenseman. I'd like him as a project second pair guy if the club had a stalwart alongside him -- absent that, he's a defenseman that needs to be protected and coddled.

You can argue that he's a project that has the tools, but Subban's a player who's got those same tools and he's already put them together. I'm not exaggerating when I say they're not in the same league; Subban's a capable shut-down defenseman who's strong in transition, can move the puck up the ice, excels on the PK and has some refining to do on the PP but he's already decent there too. He's comfortably a top pairing defenseman, and borderline #1 on a solid club. Really, they may be similar in raw tools, but that's largely irrelevant when one player (who's younger) is actually utilising those tools while the other isn't.

There are no comparable defensemen available in a trade, I don't think. Johnson would come and slide in behind Markov and Gorges and be a nuisance to coach, as he'd be yet another defenseman that needed to be protected.
One question, did you even watch EJ play since he got to Colorado? Because the part of your post where you say he's a poor PKer (when in reality he's the main reason for their improved PK alongsider Varlamov) pretty much proves otherwise. His main forte is the way he plays in his own zone and considering his point totals, he needs a puck mover next to him to be an effective offensive force, sadly he's forced to play with sieves like Wilson, Hunwick or Orr'Brien which basically forces him to play a safe stay at home game, beacuse of the constant need to bail out his partners because of their mental breaks. As a fan of both Avs and Habs I can safely say that a pairing of Markov and EJ would be one of the top pairings in the league.

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:37 PM
  #844
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I put Dion in there I guess because I prefer gritty players. If we lose PK, i'd rather we have another guy that can skate and hit like PK.
Something like Trouba + Little for PK would be more to my liking.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:05 PM
  #845
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I thought I'd kick start the annual Vinny thread.

I thought I'd go with the "what if" Vinny is bought out by Tampa and can be had for a significant discount. Say $4M a year or so.

I'm thinking even though he may have lost a step, playing in a different location might motivate him, be a big body centre and can help mentor Galchenyuk on how to be a #1 centre.

Thoughts?
They won't buy him out. They don't have the cash to do such a thing, nor would they want to piss off their already diminutive fanbase. He's loved there and despite being overpaid, he's still a productive player. We aren't talking about a Gomez/Redden drop off in talent.

I'd value his actual on-ice production as a $5 million player, the extra is for the draw of his name.

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01-26-2013, 04:25 PM
  #846
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Something like Trouba + Little for PK would be more to my liking.
Never thought of Trouba as a replacement for PK.. That would be a fair value deal.

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:28 PM
  #847
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Ok, you're not underrating Johnson, just overrating PK

Seriously, I don't agree with your evaluation of PK. Yes, he did everything you said, but the results weren't exactly good (we were dead last with piss poor defense and defencemen), except on the PK, where he was the 3rd d-men used after Gill and Gorges.

Personnaly, I think he utterly sucks on the PP, because of poor decision making.

But, he's a work horse, plays well in all 3 zones and his one of, if not the most skilled defenceman in the league... but contrary to you, I'm far from seeing him as a finish product.
And yet, when Subban was on the ice, Montreal was an effective team. Considering how bad the club was last season, that's a testament to how good Subban was. This isn't me overrating him so much as this being reality. Subban's a very, very good defenseman already. I don't think he's a finished product.


Quote:
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One question, did you even watch EJ play since he got to Colorado?
Yes.

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01-26-2013, 04:39 PM
  #848
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You know if we say trade subban for phaneuf who makes something like 6.5 million, why not just give subban a decent amount. Like what's the point?

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01-26-2013, 04:58 PM
  #849
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If PK gets traded MB will deff not send him to a division rival or any other team in the east. He'll be going west to minimize any chance of pk playing more then 2 games against us. IMO

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:20 PM
  #850
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And yet, when Subban was on the ice, Montreal was an effective team. Considering how bad the club was last season, that's a testament to how good Subban was. This isn't me overrating him so much as this being reality. Subban's a very, very good defenseman already. I don't think he's a finished product.




Yes.
It sure doesn't look like you did.

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