No I am not. One poster listed off a few mobile back-ups who he figured would dominate, and I gave an example of someone similar who busted hard in the CFL.
Definitely a lot of revisionist history there as well. Lemon was always the back-up in Miami the season he started, and while that doesn't mean much, saying he was a backup because the three QBs ahead of him all went down is just a boldfaced lie.
Perhaps you should learn to read before calling somebody a liar. I said the only reason he ever started an NFL game was because the QBs ahead of him got injured. You cited his starting experience like it was some noteworthy accomplishment. It wasn't. He was on the worst team in the NFL only only ever started due to injury.
Point you guys can't seem to grasp is that the CFL is stocked entirely by players who couldn't cut it in the NFL. Thinking that some rule changes will somehow offset the huge talent gap is just being silly. It will make them more competitive, but not leapfrog them to the point where CFL would "dominate" an NFL team under CFL rules. Some NFL players wouldn't be able to be as effective under CFL rules, but most still would be.
Perhaps you should learn to read before calling somebody a liar. I said the only reason he ever started an NFL game was because the QBs ahead of him got injured. You cited his starting experience like it was some noteworthy accomplishment. It wasn't. He was on the worst team in the NFL only only ever started due to injury.
Point you guys can't seem to grasp is that the CFL is stocked entirely by players who couldn't cut it in the NFL. Thinking that some rule changes will somehow offset the huge talent gap is just being silly. It will make them more competitive, but not leapfrog them to the point where CFL would "dominate" an NFL team under CFL rules. Some NFL players wouldn't be able to be as effective under CFL rules, but most still would be.
Sorry, but usually when someone says he only started because the three guys ahead of him were injured, usually that means something else than what you intended. And worst team or not, because of injury or not, it is, in a sense, an accomplishment. But that also wasn't my point at all, thank you for missing it again.
And I never said any of those things. But the first line there is the exact stupid line of thinking CFL fans hate. Is it a true statement, yes, but when taken literally, that says any NFL player is automatically better, which is the furthest thing from the truth.
And making them simply more competitive is a bit of an understatement. I know saying that changes to the rules and regulations seems silly for someone who knows next to nothing about the CFL, but those nuances do mean quite a bit. I bet it also seems silly that a QB, a year removed from starting in the Super Bowl, couldn't cut it in the CFL, but that happened(the reason why was even better). It would make them a lot more competitive, most NFL teams wouldn't know what to do playing CFL rules.
I personally consider the CFL it's own sport, the different rules leads to much different offensive strategies.
The NFL is suited for the Tom Bradys and Peyton Mannings, while the CFL is suited for the Denard Robinsons all three are talented quarterbacks, but one of the three has an entirely different way of going about being talented.
If Denard wants to play QB in the pro's, I'd suggest he'd play in the CFL, he'd be a backup WR in the NFL. It's not because he's bad, but because the NFL rules promote a pro style while the CFL rules promote a spread style.
Point you guys can't seem to grasp is that the CFL is stocked entirely by players who couldn't cut it in the NFL.
While true, the margins between cutting it and not cutting it in the NFL are razor thin, arguably more so than the NHL.
Furthermore, on any given CFL roster, you probably have at least a half dozen players who would be more than capable of cracking a 53 man NFL roster on talent alone. Problem is, the role they would be capable of fulfilling is generally reserved for younger players with greater developmental potential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBryanRoleModel
If Denard wants to play QB in the pro's, I'd suggest he'd play in the CFL, he'd be a backup WR in the NFL. It's not because he's bad, but because the NFL rules promote a pro style while the CFL rules promote a spread style.
First guy I thought of was Armanti Edwards. He'd be an intriguing developmental project in the CFL once he's inevitably cut by the Panthers. But I digress.
Hey, the CFL seems to be making some progress around here, it's being compared to the NFL. Last year the question was whether a CFL team could beat your average SEC team.
If Denard wants to play QB in the pro's, I'd suggest he'd play in the CFL, he'd be a backup WR in the NFL. It's not because he's bad, but because the NFL rules promote a pro style while the CFL rules promote a spread style.
Nard Dawg will be a WR in the NFL, but not a backup. Whoever drafts him will design plays for him and ensure he touches the ball at least a few times a game as well as being a return man. Whether or not he adjusts to that role will be a question, but he isn't going to be a reserve guy.
Nard Dawg will be a WR in the NFL, but not a backup. Whoever drafts him will design plays for him and ensure he touches the ball at least a few times a game as well as being a return man. Whether or not he adjusts to that role will be a question, but he isn't going to be a reserve guy.
He's the next Brad Smith. And Brad Smith has been able to make it work long-term.
True, the CFL is a different game that requires a different skill set than the NFL.
or it could be that they aren't good enough to play in the NFL.
it really isn't that much different. football is football, regardless of 3 downs, 12 players, a bigger field, or my favorite, the opportunity to get a point even if you miss a field goal lol. most players in the CFL would kill to play in the NFL.
or it could be that they aren't good enough to play in the NFL.
it really isn't that much different. football is football, regardless of 3 downs, 12 players, a bigger field, or my favorite, the opportunity to get a point even if you miss a field goal lol. most players in the CFL would kill to play in the NFL.
I actually think the rouge, coupled with legal drop kicks would make American football better since it makes an ending like this possible.
Although, we will need to bring in Canadian announcers who can yell "He's gotta kick it oot!"
or it could be that they aren't good enough to play in the NFL.
it really isn't that much different. football is football, regardless of 3 downs, 12 players, a bigger field, or my favorite, the opportunity to get a point even if you miss a field goal lol. most players in the CFL would kill to play in the NFL.
I would disagree with that statement. Most players in the CFL would kill to make NFL money. Chad Owens himself had to choose between resigning with the Argos or signing with the Jets. He said if money was not an issue he would resign with Toronto immedietly. In the End he chose Toronto. Even Anthony Calvillo says money aside the CFL suits his personality and early on realized it was the best place for him.
The fact Henry Burris an absolute joke in NFL is a elite talent in CFL is all you need to know how this matchup would turnout
Dave Dickinson is a CFL Hall of Famer, Hall of Fame clipboard holder and shoe shiner in the NFL.
People say there isn't a huge gap between players that get cut in the nfl and those who make it but thats only true for a few roster spots. A CFL all-star team would not be able to produce a starting line-up like any NFL team. It would be made up of mostly guys who be depth players and special teams guys in the nfl. They would be absolutely destroyed by the best offensive and defensive players in the NFL.
If you put together a team full of NFL practice squad players they would be a fair comparison for a CFL all star team.
Honestly, I think that the CFL team would get blown out just about every game.
When you look at this scenario, you have to consider the NFL's roster size. It is ****ing huge, not to mention every team has a scout team as well. Your looking at sixty or so odd players, of which probably less than 40 will ever see much, if any game time.
Truth is, every NFL team has a ton of room for prospects and developmental players (one of the reasons why NFL Europe was never very successful, an NFL "farm team" will never work).
If you have any talent, I mean any talent or marketable skill, be it size, speed, arm strength, ect ect you're going to be somewhere on an NFL roster or scout team somewhere.
Look at who gets cut in NFL camps, its' never someone who is expected to produce, it's always someone who isn't good enough to play special teams (the place where guys who are "too small" or "too slow" end up), doesn't have the talent to stick around as a developmental prospect, and doesn't have any real skills to speak of.
Remember, these guys get to try out NINETY guys now in camp. Unreal. The NFL takes a look at just about everyone coming out of college, if you end up in the CFL you just aren't very good.
If we want to make an NHL comparison, it's not NHL-AHL, it's NHL-ECHL. The NFL has an AHL on it's roster/scout team already.
Enough good NFLers have failed at the CFL for me to stand by my statement. But i agree, Under NFL rules, the CFLers would look like a bunch of Nugent Hopkins.
Speaking of which, at today's Lions/Riders game, he was standing on the sidelines with his own #93 Lions jersey.
Depends what rules are being used to. Only way a CFL team would have a shot would be if they played using CFL rules. WR get a running start (LOL what a ****ing joke that is), wider field, 20 yard endzones, bigger football.
Although, can you imagine what QBs like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees would do with wider fields and 20 yard endzones? Yikes...
I'd probably argue that some of the top rated college teams would have a better shot if they are using NFL rules.
What? I hope this rant wasn't directed at me. I wasn't trying to belittle the CFL, or "make you feel bad", I was trying to start a debate
I am an Argo fan, I was just posing a question, because I was curious as to how a SEC/Big 12 all star team would stack up against a CFL team. The KHL comparison seems more apt than an AHL comparison as you pointed out.
Well it's like this... Even the GREATEST team to play in the NCAA in the last 20 years would get more destroyed by a CFL team than a CFL team would be destroyed by an NFL team. I'll tell you why and then you might understand why someone thought you were trying to belittle the CFL because really, the question of an NCAA team vs a CFL team is beyond absurd.
Now, let's look at the NCAA. There are 111 teams of 70 players each. That makes 7,770 NCAA football players. Of that, only 112 players get drafted each year into the NFL. They don't automatically play, they're just claimed and therefore cannot play on any other NFL team.
Now, this next part is impossible but just to give you more than the best possible scenario for your question, we'll assume that the CFL uses all 48 draft picks on NCAA players and drafts nobody from the CIS. So now, you have a total of 160 players that both the CFL and NFL believe are POSSIBLY capable of playing pro ball. That is an average of less than 2 players per NCAA team.
The other 7,610 players which obviously make up the bulk of all NCAA teams aren't even good enough to play in the CFL. Some may be good enough for the AFL (Arena league) but I don't have exact figures for that so we'll ignore it. Now, take the best team in the NCAA, we'll say that perhaps 4 players on that team are good enough for pro ball and 66 players are not. Do you really think that a team with 4 quality players and 66 "fluff" players could possibly touch a team made completely of professionals? You're really not comparing apples to apples here. Some say the same thing about CFL vs. NFL and there is value in that but at least the teams are both made of seasoned professionals.
An NCAA team is mostly guys playing for fun and enough prestige to get laid. A CFL team is a professional football team made up of CIS and NCAA superstars that couldn't make it to the NFL for a myriad of reasons. The NCAA couldn't even be compared to the AHL because AHL players are professionals. The NCAA would be more comparable to the OHL, QMJHL, WHL, etc. In those cases, even a KHL team would slaughter them.
I think that the difference between the NFL and CFL would be more akin to the difference between the NCAA and CIS. One is clearly superior (based on population and money) but they're in the same universe. College vs. Pro is not in the same universe. Take the WORST CFL team, put them in NCAA Division-1 and they'll have a perfect record, break every single team record in NCAA history by possibly having ZERO points scored on them and win the NCAA championship in every single year that they're there with no exceptions. The same thing could not be said about the worst NFL team playing in the CFL or the worst NCAA team playing in the CIS. That's the difference and that's why the question has no merit whatsoever.
I'm not putting you down or anything, I know that the question was honest and not meant to incite. I post this to simply explain, without emotion or prejudice, why some would think that you were insulting the CFL. See, you really were insulting the CFL and you showed the typical Toronto attitude of how low Torontonians think the CFL is but you didn't mean to and there was no malice behind it. The reaction you received was a result of CFL fans tired of hearing the "same old crap" from Torontonians about how the CFL is a crap league and the quality is far better in the NFL. In defence of that belief that Toronto seems to have, it's true. The NFL is clearly made up of superior players but here's the thing:
When you have a football game where the offences and defences are evenly matched, it's entertaining and great because awesome plays are possible and the outcome is in doubt. Why do you think that the NCAA is so wildly popular in the USA? Because it's a great game played by teams that are generally evenly matched and the outcome is always in doubt (and because people bet on them like crazy). THAT is the key to a good game, not necessarily having the best of the best players, but having players whose level of quality is evenly matched. I hope that this has helped explain things not only to you, but to anyone else who is not knowledgeable enough about the game of football for this to be immediately obvious.
In answer to the question that was posed, I think that the worst NFL teams could lose to the best CFL teams but I could be wrong. Is the talent difference between the best and worst NFL teams greater than the worst NFL team and best CFL team? I ask this because of the old "On any given Sunday" addage. Also, NFL success isn't always about pure talent. The Chiefs are clearly a talented team but they lack the intangibles needed for success like good coaching and management, team chemistry, a winning attitude and confidence. If a team doesn't believe they can win, or know how to win, even a clearly inferior team can beat them. We've seen huge upsets occur in the NFL that were a result of the better team taking the worse team too lightly and forgetting that they are playing professionals. Could an NFL team take a CFL team too lightly and get beat? I don't know but I believe it's possible. The QB doesn't take the game seriously and throws 9 interceptions, for instance. Believe it or not, a CFL DB can intercept a ball thrown by an NFL QB. A CFL LB can pick up a fumble from an NFL RB. Too many crazy things can happen between professionals for anything to be absolute. In 100 games would an NFL team have a perfect record against a CFL team? I think the answer to that is an emphatic "no". Would the CFL team have double-digit wins? Probably not, but hey, remember that even the Harlem Globetrotters don't have a perfect record against the Washington Generals.
Rock on!
- Watched CFL since 1979, watched NFL since 1987, played football for 3 years in high school and had a football coach for a stepfather.
Last edited by Avro Arrow: 12-01-2012 at 05:27 PM.
Reason: Added some other insights.
NFL today? Probably not. Too QB driven. As a huge Ray Lewis fan, I'm not a huge fan of the direction of the NFL right now. Too much passing and points. I'd love for once to see a rule change benefit the defense
Forgive my ignorance but i know nothing about the CFL. this is a question for those who keep saying that if they played with CFL rules, that they would have a chance and or beat an NFL team. Which rules are so if favor of the CFL players to make that satement? The way i see it is no matter what rules they will play under, the NFL players are far more superior players than the CFL players. im pretty sure if the NFL players got a good grasp of the rules they would do just fine playing a CFL all star team, and when i say just fine, i mean man handle.
