HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Free Agent Frenzy (Part VIII): Still no decision with Doan

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-09-2012, 12:08 PM
  #576
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,122
vCash: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
But when you make $7.8 million you need to be relied on.

I agree with Pizza, anything less than 70/40 is a failed trade.
There is a difference between being reliable and being the sole offensive threat. Just because he isn't labeled as "the guy" means he won't be relied on? What is that logic? Is Hossa not relied on with the Hawks because Kane and Toews are there?

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:11 PM
  #577
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,336
vCash: 500
I think Nash could put up 40g as well with the Rangers. But the main factor that is working against Howson is that Nash has a NMC, he had less than 60 points last year and he has very little playoff experience.

I would hold at something like:

Dubinsky + Anisimov + Thomas + 1st '13 for Nash + Dorsett (if possible)

NYR Viper is online now  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:18 PM
  #578
drewcon40
Registered User
 
drewcon40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: born LI, live SI
Posts: 843
vCash: 500
I am not knocking or criticizing anyone who is pro-Nash. However, when I wrote short sighted, just look at the link and draw your own conclusion. The contracts being handed out this off-season can certainly be used as a measuring stick for other players. If the Rangers made a trade and Nash came and was a success, I'll certainly admit I was wrong but I don't envision it. I see a player who is overrated. I don't see how he is the "perfect fit". He is a good, not great player. A lot of you stated, he was on bad teams and put up some great numbers. That is admirable but to be the best on a group of mediocre talent raises more of a red flag.

Source: Cap Geek (New York Rangers)

drewcon40 is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:19 PM
  #579
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,667
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Hold firm to 1 roster player + for Nash or no deal.

Fire Sather is online now  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:19 PM
  #580
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,948
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I keep seeing this and think its ridiculous. We have our "guy" in Lundqvist. We also have two "guys" in Richards and Gaborik. The silver lining on the whole thing is that Nash can come in and not be relied upon soley for the teams offense.

I also look at Tortorella's history of getting the best out of guys like Lecavalier and Gaborik. He could really help Nash and return him to form.
OK...

Not having a $7.8 million player be THE guy???....I think that's setting the bar pretty low.

For that kind of money I want a guy that KNOWS he's the man and won't tolerate anyone saying anything different.

That's my problem with this. I don't think Nash would be comfortable being counted on to put a team on his back when needed. If this deal goes forward, I hope I am proven wrong.

Pizza is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:22 PM
  #581
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,948
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think Nash could put up 40g as well with the Rangers. But the main factor that is working against Howson is that Nash has a NMC, he had less than 60 points last year and he has very little playoff experience.

I would hold at something like:

Dubinsky + Anisimov + Thomas + 1st '13 for Nash + Dorsett (if possible)
Wouldn't do it. Not now. Too much at this point.

Pizza is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:23 PM
  #582
drewcon40
Registered User
 
drewcon40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: born LI, live SI
Posts: 843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think Nash could put up 40g as well with the Rangers. But the main factor that is working against Howson is that Nash has a NMC, he had less than 60 points last year and he has very little playoff experience.

I would hold at something like:

Dubinsky + Anisimov + Thomas + 1st '13 for Nash + Dorsett (if possible)
Now, there is a guy that seems tailor made for the Rangers.

drewcon40 is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:23 PM
  #583
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
I am not knocking or criticizing anyone who is pro-Nash. However, when I wrote short sighted, just look at the link and draw your own conclusion. The contracts being handed out this off-season can certainly be used as a measuring stick for other players. If the Rangers made a trade and Nash came and was a success, I'll certainly admit I was wrong but I don't envision it. I see a player who is overrated. I don't see how he is the "perfect fit". He is a good, not great player. A lot of you stated, he was on bad teams and put up some great numbers. That is admirable but to be the best on a group of mediocre talent raises more of a red flag.

Source: Cap Geek (New York Rangers)
What is considered a "great" player though? If he came in and scored 35 goals and had 35 assists for 70 points, I would label him as a great player. Not many players with his combination of skill and size put up those types of numbers.

Add to that the fact that he is 28 and has many years of very good play ahead of him and very little injury history and IMO he would be a perfect fit, even at his cap hit. The main problem is what Howson is asking for does not correlate to the player he was last year on a VERY bad team.

NYR Viper is online now  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:26 PM
  #584
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,336
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
OK...

Not having a $7.8 million player be THE guy???....I think that's setting the bar pretty low.

For that kind of money I want a guy that KNOWS he's the man and won't tolerate anyone saying anything different.

That's my problem with this. I don't think Nash would be comfortable being counted on to put a team on his back when needed. If this deal goes forward, I hope I am proven wrong.
Nash not only has had to carry his team but his entire franchise since age 18. He knows he is THE guy. He wants to go somewhere where he can help be THE guy with some sort of help. The fact that he has scored so many goals while playing on such a crappy team is very impressive.

NYR Viper is online now  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:28 PM
  #585
drewcon40
Registered User
 
drewcon40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: born LI, live SI
Posts: 843
vCash: 500
If Nash is getting 7.8 to not be "the man". What is the team captain Ryan Callahan going to command that summer? What about Henrik Lundqvist? He is surely going to expect a raise.

Other FAs between now and 2014-15..well, it's easier to just list the 3 that are signed beyond 2014.

Brad Richards
Brandon Dubinsky or Rick Nash
Marc Staal

(**McIlrath and Miller among the prospects)

drewcon40 is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:30 PM
  #586
drewcon40
Registered User
 
drewcon40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: born LI, live SI
Posts: 843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Nash not only has had to carry his team but his entire franchise since age 18. He knows he is THE guy. He wants to go somewhere where he can help be THE guy with some sort of help. The fact that he has scored so many goals while playing on such a crappy team is very impressive.
He had 59 points last year with 82 games played. His numbers have been declining.

drewcon40 is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:32 PM
  #587
JanErixon20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 438
vCash: 500
I don't even care anymore, just let me know when something happens.

JanErixon20 is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:34 PM
  #588
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What is considered a "great" player though? If he came in and scored 35 goals and had 35 assists for 70 points, I would label him as a great player. Not many players with his combination of skill and size put up those types of numbers.

Add to that the fact that he is 28 and has many years of very good play ahead of him and very little injury history and IMO he would be a perfect fit, even at his cap hit. The main problem is what Howson is asking for does not correlate to the player he was last year on a VERY bad team.
Unfortunately, I think league-wide comparables aren't going to be the real story.

If Nash is traded to NY, and even one piece going back to the Jackets rubs the fanbase the wrong way, Nash is going to have a target on his back from day one. Now, add to that the fact that we already have a 40-goal scoring winger in place, who cost us nothing to acquire and makes less money per year, and I think Nash will have to keep pace with Gaborik at a minimum to not be public enemy #1 by the trade deadline this season.

Is it fair? Not in the least bit, but in my opinion it's the reality of the situation.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:40 PM
  #589
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,122
vCash: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
OK...

Not having a $7.8 million player be THE guy???....I think that's setting the bar pretty low.

For that kind of money I want a guy that KNOWS he's the man and won't tolerate anyone saying anything different.

That's my problem with this. I don't think Nash would be comfortable being counted on to put a team on his back when needed. If this deal goes forward, I hope I am proven wrong.
Did the Rangers give him that contract?

If he was signed by the Rangers at that price than sure I agree but Columbus gave him that contract and he was their go to guy. Doesn't mean he has to carry that responsibility around if he goes to a deeper team with previously established go to guys on it.

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:45 PM
  #590
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,122
vCash: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
If Nash is getting 7.8 to not be "the man". What is the team captain Ryan Callahan going to command that summer? What about Henrik Lundqvist? He is surely going to expect a raise.

Other FAs between now and 2014-15..well, it's easier to just list the 3 that are signed beyond 2014.

Brad Richards
Brandon Dubinsky or Rick Nash
Marc Staal

(**McIlrath and Miller among the prospects)
Callahan and Lundqvist are probably smart enoug not to compare themselves to a guy who was given a bad contract by a different organization than their own.

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:48 PM
  #591
NJRangers35
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 274
vCash: 500
Everyone is talking about Nash's cap hit being tr reason we shouldnt sign him. Dubinsky has a contract
That expires after McDonagh, stepan, and hagelins raises. After Callahan, lindqvist, girardi, and gaborik are expired. Dubinsky was signed with the intention that he wouldbt be the reason we couldn't bring those guys back.

Dubinsky will be traded in any Nash deal. There is a 3.6 million difference between the two. You guys are saying if we kept Dubinsky and didn't trade for Nash that we wouldn't be able to bring someone in for 3.6 mil for at least the next 3 years?

NJRangers35 is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:53 PM
  #592
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,337
vCash: 500
If the only reason people are worried about getting nash is his cap hit, than you mine as well go ahead and make the trade. Sather is not worried about it, why should the fans be? especially when Sather has been pretty dang good the last few years.

Lundsanity30 is online now  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:54 PM
  #593
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,337
vCash: 500
The Rangers COULD try to move Del Zotto for forward help and than swing them to CBJ for Nash. Del Zotto is a center piece in any deal especially teams who need a PMD. That way you can also keep Kreider and Stepan.

Lundsanity30 is online now  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:54 PM
  #594
we want cup
We do not Sow
 
we want cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 10,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRangers35 View Post
Everyone is talking about Nash's cap hit being tr reason we shouldnt sign him. Dubinsky has a contract
That expires after McDonagh, stepan, and hagelins raises. After Callahan, lindqvist, girardi, and gaborik are expired. Dubinsky was signed with the intention that he wouldbt be the reason we couldn't bring those guys back.

Dubinsky will be traded in any Nash deal. There is a 3.6 million difference between the two. You guys are saying if we kept Dubinsky and didn't trade for Nash that we wouldn't be able to bring someone in for 3.6 mil for at least the next 3 years?
Comparing the Dubinsky contract with Nash's is silly. Dubinsky doesn't have a NMC, he's signed for a shorter term, and he'd be a very easy player to trade. Teams want Brandon Dubinsky. Unfortunately, Rick Nash gets to choose which teams he can be traded to, which might not necessarily be the teams that want him. Dubinsky's contract doesn't handcuff the team at anywhere close to the level Nash's contract would.

__________________

RANGERS =
we want cup is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:57 PM
  #595
drewcon40
Registered User
 
drewcon40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: born LI, live SI
Posts: 843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Callahan and Lundqvist are probably smart enoug not to compare themselves to a guy who was given a bad contract by a different organization than their own.
Don't you think that would be the other way around? I am not sure I agree with you here. Your captain and your star goalie aren't going to consider that? That would be a huge risk in my humble opinion. Why do you think this isn't a factor?

Keep in mind, this is coinciding or after Hagelin, Stepan, McDonough, Girardi, Kreider, Del Zotto contracts are all up.

drewcon40 is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:59 PM
  #596
NJRangers35
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Comparing the Dubinsky contract with Nash's is silly. Dubinsky doesn't have a NMC, he's signed for a shorter term, and he'd be a very easy player to trade. Teams want Brandon Dubinsky. Unfortunately, Rick Nash gets to choose which teams he can be traded to, which might not necessarily be the teams that want him. Dubinsky's contract doesn't handcuff the team at anywhere close to the level Nash's contract would.
How is that relevant? If you are trading first round picks and prospects for Nash why Woukd you want to trade him? He would immediately be one of the biggest pieces of your core. At some point we need a big time player to come in. I love players like arty and Callahan and Dubi and hagelin, but none of these players are studs. I think Nash's cap hit has made him grossly underrated on these boards.

NJRangers35 is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 12:59 PM
  #597
Blueshirt Believer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,398
vCash: 500
Honestly, the whole Nash discussion has become completely circular at this point. The same points keep getting brought up, the same counter arguments. We all just keep repeating ourselves.

Blueshirt Believer is offline  
Old
07-09-2012, 01:01 PM
  #598
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Honestly, the whole Nash discussion has become completely circular at this point. The same points keep getting brought up, the same counter arguments. We all just keep repeating ourselves.
Yup, you got the "pro Nash" crowd, the "anti Nash crowd" the "all in Nash crowd" or the "all out nash crowd" and no one's opinion is going to change.

Lundsanity30 is online now  
Old
07-09-2012, 01:01 PM
  #599
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,337
vCash: 500
@MurphysLaw74: Shane Doan will start courting offers by tomorrow. Expect him to stay in Western Conference & looking for 4-5 yrs

oof, no thank you.

Lundsanity30 is online now  
Old
07-09-2012, 01:01 PM
  #600
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,122
vCash: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
Don't you think that would be the other way around? I am not sure I agree with you here. Your captain and your star goalie aren't going to consider that? That would be a huge risk in my humble opinion. Why do you think this isn't a factor?

Keep in mind, this is coinciding or after Hagelin, Stepan, McDonough, Girardi, Kreider, Del Zotto contracts are all up.
Because I believe players know there value to a team and expect it base in what they provide rather than what other guys make. If Cally wants to be the highest paid player on our team because he has a "C" on his chest then I have gravely misjudged his character. If Lundqvist wants to make the same or more money as a forwar then I would say he is confused.

My other reason for not worrying about the cap? Players come and go, it's the natural cycle of pro sports. Not everyone on this roster will still be here in three years and if the front office think it's doable then like I said earlier our opinions are moot.

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.