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Free Agent Frenzy (Part VIII): Still no decision with Doan

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Old
07-09-2012, 01:02 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
He had 59 points last year with 82 games played. His numbers have been declining.
30 goals on a terrible team with no center.

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07-09-2012, 01:02 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Honestly, the whole Nash discussion has become completely circular at this point. The same points keep getting brought up, the same counter arguments. We all just keep repeating ourselves.
OK - I think Rick Nash looks a lot like JWoww's boyfriend Roger on the Jersey Shore.

For those of you who agree or disagree, feel free to discuss.

For those of you who "don't watch that stuff"....stop lying!

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07-09-2012, 01:04 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
30 goals on a terrible team with no center.
And that explains his declining numbers? He also had more ice time then he would as a Ranger if he is a 2nd line player here....

He is a good player, I agree. He is not as good as his contract or cost to acquire him dictates.

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07-09-2012, 01:04 PM
  #604
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Did the Rangers give him that contract?

If he was signed by the Rangers at that price than sure I agree but Columbus gave him that contract and he was their go to guy. Doesn't mean he has to carry that responsibility around if he goes to a deeper team with previously established go to guys on it.
I don't want to quibble over semantics with you, but $7.8 million is $7.8 million. That is elite money. The kind of money I would pay for a guy who can carry a team. If that's what your paying that better be what you get. Anything else is setting the bar low, imo.

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07-09-2012, 01:05 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
30 goals on a terrible team with no center.
This is a valid point I have also been trying to make. Rick Nash has scored 30 goals every year with Derrick Brassard as his center. It don't matter who on the Rangers (whether it be Richards, Stepan, Dubinsky, Anisimov, or hell even Brian Boyle) Nash is going to score 30 goals simply because he's talented enough by himself to do so.

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07-09-2012, 01:11 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
This is a valid point I have also been trying to make. Rick Nash has scored 30 goals every year with Derrick Brassard as his center. It don't matter who on the Rangers (whether it be Richards, Stepan, Dubinsky, Anisimov, or hell even Brian Boyle) Nash is going to score 30 goals simply because he's talented enough by himself to do so.
Based on what? Brad Richards (who I have no problem with and love the signing), numbers went down.

Gaborik scored 42 goals two seasons ago and 41 last year with a variety of centers.

I don't see how that can be a fact that he would DEFINITIVELY have more success.

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07-09-2012, 01:11 PM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I don't want to quibble over semantics with you, but $7.8 million is $7.8 million. That is elite money. The kind of money I would pay for a guy who can carry a team. If that's what your paying that better be what you get. Anything else is setting the bar low, imo.
Fair enough, but I think you're getting hung up on the large cap hit and comparing him to a free agent signing. He was given that contract by a desperate GM.

Whose to say he can't carry a team? He's been carrying a ****** team in Columbus for 9 years. The fact that he doesn't have to carry the team here is only a benefit for Nash, it allows him to loosen up and play the game.

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07-09-2012, 01:12 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
And that explains his declining numbers? He also had more ice time then he would as a Ranger if he is a 2nd line player here....

He is a good player, I agree. He is not as good as his contract or cost to acquire him dictates.
Nash would not be a 2nd line player in the same way Gaborik nor Richards were when they were split up.

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07-09-2012, 01:13 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Honestly, the whole Nash discussion has become completely circular at this point. The same points keep getting brought up, the same counter arguments. We all just keep repeating ourselves.
Agreed.

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07-09-2012, 01:15 PM
  #610
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Barb - Boyle et all...just a disclaimer that I am truly enjoying this friendly debate. No sarcasm. No one is flaming each other. I hope you are taking it as such. Sometimes it gets to name calling and the "do you even watch hockey" lines get posted. I know this is redundant but it is certainly enjoyable in the dog days of summer.

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07-09-2012, 01:17 PM
  #611
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I prefer Nash to Gaborik, not that it could happen. Nash would definitely be the best forward on the team, at least in my opinion.

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07-09-2012, 01:19 PM
  #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
Based on what? Brad Richards (who I have no problem with and love the signing), numbers went down.

Gaborik scored 42 goals two seasons ago and 41 last year with a variety of centers.

I don't see how that can be a fact that he would DEFINITIVELY have more success.
I never said he would score more than 30.. I said he'd score 30 (which he's been doing now for how many years?)

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07-09-2012, 01:19 PM
  #613
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I prefer Gaborik and even Richards over Nash. Callahan is borderline,

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07-09-2012, 01:20 PM
  #614
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I love Stepan. Kid is great. But we are talking about RICK NASH. Is there even a debate to be had here?

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07-09-2012, 01:20 PM
  #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I don't want to quibble over semantics with you, but $7.8 million is $7.8 million. That is elite money. The kind of money I would pay for a guy who can carry a team. If that's what your paying that better be what you get. Anything else is setting the bar low, imo.
The Drury contract eventually blew up because of the same reason. A guy being paid tons more than what he could accomplish on the ice. Now Nash is much more of an offensive force than Drury was but he's not nearly a $7.8 mil per year player and Drury was nowhere near a $7 mil+ per year player. Drury did not cost us us anything in terms of players going back either--which Nash will certainly do.

There is an onus on your huge contracted players to carry the team to the next level--not just be passengers. Nash may still be a great player but if he does become a Ranger he'll be expected to be great much more consistently than he has in the past few years.

Personally I'd steer clear and wait for a better option. Just don't like the idea of such a big contract over a 6 year period if I can't at least be very certain the player can live up to it.

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07-09-2012, 01:24 PM
  #616
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Can we PLEASE stop worrying about the cap hit? Assets? fine. but the cap hit? How much do you think Sather would be willing to offer nash if he was an UFA? Hint.. its probably as much if not more than Parise..

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07-09-2012, 01:24 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Honestly, the whole Nash discussion has become completely circular at this point. The same points keep getting brought up, the same counter arguments. We all just keep repeating ourselves.
How many days until the start of the season?

This is going to go on until A) We sign somebody, or B) Rick Nash is traded, whether it be to the Rangers or another team.

This whole situation is driving all of us insane!

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07-09-2012, 01:25 PM
  #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bscharf View Post
I love Stepan. Kid is great. But we are talking about RICK NASH. Is there even a debate to be had here?
opening one hole for another is the debate. You get a top 6 guy, but you lose a top 6 guy (and possibly another one or a 3rd liner in Dubinsky) + a prospect and a pick. Unless you are of the belief that Anisimov, or dubinsky (if he didn't go back) could be the 2nd line center

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07-09-2012, 01:25 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by bscharf View Post
I love Stepan. Kid is great. But we are talking about RICK NASH. Is there even a debate to be had here?
Yes, excellent points were laid out in previous posts.

We are talking about RICK NASH, not STAMKOS, or CROSBY, or MALKIN. It's only Rick Nash.

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07-09-2012, 01:26 PM
  #620
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Can we PLEASE stop worrying about the cap hit? Assets? fine. but the cap hit? How much do you think Sather would be willing to offer nash if he was an UFA? Hint.. its probably as much if not more than Parise..
Why should we? Cap is all that matters and especially when you tie it up for Nash. He would be the highest cap player on the team when there are 3 others better than him.

For the record, I bet Sather would've gone with a frontloaded deal like he did with Richards.

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07-09-2012, 01:26 PM
  #621
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Rodent was blowing up twitter awhile ago and he made some good points, the only teams that Stepan is a requirement for are NSH for Weber and ANA for Ryan. With Howson's hands tied like they are he has to be flexible on his return. He also made mention that while Hagelin is a nice piece his utility becomes limited when you have Nash/Kreider and Gaborik/Callahan in front of him. I get the feeling Dubinsky + Hagelin + 1st, maybe a Thomas will get the deal done for Nash. At that cost I feel it's worth the risk.

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07-09-2012, 01:27 PM
  #622
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Can we PLEASE stop worrying about the cap hit? Assets? fine. but the cap hit? How much do you think Sather would be willing to offer nash if he was an UFA? Hint.. its probably as much if not more than Parise..
That's the entire point. It IS relevant.

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07-09-2012, 01:28 PM
  #623
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I am not in the camp of "give anything for Rick Nash". I like him as a player and think he could do well in this system (in the same way a rookie like Kreider did in the playoffs), however he would have to come at a price that the Rangers are okay giving up. If they can't fill the holes internally than it doesn't make sense right now. There will always be a player available they can deal for when the time is right.

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07-09-2012, 01:28 PM
  #624
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Fair enough, but I think you're getting hung up on the large cap hit and comparing him to a free agent signing. He was given that contract by a desperate GM.

Whose to say he can't carry a team? He's been carrying a ****** team in Columbus for 9 years. The fact that he doesn't have to carry the team here is only a benefit for Nash, it allows him to loosen up and play the game.
I think Nash is a good player. Good not great. I understand he's had crappy teams....for ten years. Why?

Not being flip here...but why?

If he were the player that made me more comfortable he would not have tolerated it. He would have demanded better from management to put a quality team around him on the ice.

I'm one of those people that believes we get what we deserve. Nash plays on a crappy team because...in part... he's not uncomfortable enough being mediocre, imo.

It bothers me...and I've said enough.

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07-09-2012, 01:29 PM
  #625
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