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07-17-2012, 07:52 PM
  #726
BleedBlue42
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Hey guys, Blues fan here in peace. So as some of you may already know, there have been rumors on Twitter about the Habs getting really close on landing Patrik Berglund. What are your thoughts, and has there been any new updates on the Habs' side of things? Nothing really new on the Blues side. Thanks.

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07-17-2012, 07:54 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Semin is one of the top snipers in the league. He might have the strongest and most accurate shot in the league and if not, its definitely top5.
Yes. What about all other aspects of the game of hockey? I give up, you guys are right, the gm's are wrong. Semin is on par with Parise.

Not sure what this has to do with anything other than I think you completely made it up.


I agree with you kriss about skill, but he's miles behind Parise overall. There were plenty of players who had better individual attributes than Gretzky, but he still managed to lap them all, but now that I've found out he's got the most accurate shot in the league, sign me up

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07-17-2012, 07:55 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
Hey guys, Blues fan here in peace. So as some of you may already know, there have been rumors on Twitter about the Habs getting really close on landing Patrik Berglund. What are your thoughts, and has there been any new updates on the Habs' side of things? Nothing really new on the Blues side. Thanks.
Who are these rumors from?

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07-17-2012, 07:55 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Semin is one of the top snipers in the league. He might have the strongest and most accurate shot in the league and if not, its definitely top5.
There is no denying that Semin has a fantastic set of tools.

Outside of Doan, two of the more attractive remaining ufas are Semin and Kostitsyn. Both have great tools, but if tools were the only measure, then they would have been scooped up by now. There's going to be a fair amount of risk involved to pursue these guys, especially Semin, because his career numbers demand more money than akost.

I understand that you have to take risks in this business but the degree of risk involving Semin makes him unattractive to me. I understand we are tight against the cap, but I would not mind seeing kostitsyn back on a short term "prove your worth" type of deal.

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07-17-2012, 07:56 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
Hey guys, Blues fan here in peace. So as some of you may already know, there have been rumors on Twitter about the Habs getting really close on landing Patrik Berglund. What are your thoughts, and has there been any new updates on the Habs' side of things? Nothing really new on the Blues side. Thanks.
I was hesitating between two answers:

"It's complete BS" or "What are talking about?"

Also as a joke: "If you don't start making sense, we'll send you in a retirement home grandpa"

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07-17-2012, 07:56 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
The salary cap is wholly irrelevant in its current format, it has little bearing on anything.
So...is there a spoon?

(sorry, I had too. I have enjoyed your posts for years. I am drunk)

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07-17-2012, 07:58 PM
  #732
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HABSINSIDEMAN, HabsTalk11, and icitdev are the sources that are talking about Berglund.

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07-17-2012, 07:59 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
Hey guys, Blues fan here in peace. So as some of you may already know, there have been rumors on Twitter about the Habs getting really close on landing Patrik Berglund. What are your thoughts, and has there been any new updates on the Habs' side of things? Nothing really new on the Blues side. Thanks.
Interesting...what are the Blues needs? No you can't have Eller back...

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07-17-2012, 08:00 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
HABSINSIDEMAN, HabsTalk11, and icitdev are the sources that are talking about Berglund.
Any sources out of St Louis, I like Berglund, not sure what he'd cost though.

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07-17-2012, 08:02 PM
  #735
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So far nothing out of St. Louis, but one of those 3 sources said that there is a 75% the deal will get done. The Blues' needs are a top 4 left-handed defenseman.

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07-17-2012, 08:03 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Interesting...what are the Blues needs? No you can't have Eller back...
I would give up eller in a second for Berglund, I wouldn't even think about it I'd just say YES PLEASE

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07-17-2012, 08:04 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
HABSINSIDEMAN, HabsTalk11, and icitdev are the sources that are talking about Berglund.
Strickland is the best source of non-bs from the blues POV. There's alot of crap out there but I would not start talking about it too much unless you hear the likes of McKenzie, Dreger, or Lebrun reporting it.

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07-17-2012, 08:06 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Yes. What about all other aspects of the game of hockey? I give up, you guys are right, the gm's are wrong. Semin is on par with Parise.

Not sure what this has to do with anything other than I think you completely made it up.


I agree with you kriss about skill, but he's miles behind Parise overall. There were plenty of players who had better individual attributes than Gretzky, but he still managed to lap them all, but now that I've found out he's got the most accurate shot in the league, sign me up
You clearly just don't like Semin.

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07-17-2012, 08:23 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
HABSINSIDEMAN, HabsTalk11, and icitdev are the sources that are talking about Berglund.
So, no one reliable is talking about it. Gotcha.

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07-17-2012, 08:25 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
So far nothing out of St. Louis, but one of those 3 sources said that there is a 75% the deal will get done. The Blues' needs are a top 4 left-handed defenseman.
We don't have one, I can't see a promising prospect like Beaulieu being of interest?

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Old
07-17-2012, 08:30 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You clearly just don't like Semin.
Not at all. Semin is a very skilled forward, but skill isn't the only thing. I have nothing against the guy. I just don't want him.

Not a single GM would rate him in the same ball park as Parise. They must not like him either. It's like comparing Kaberle with Subban because kabs had more points, that's how big the gap is imo. Or Desharnais with Pleks and so on.

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Old
07-17-2012, 08:35 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
So far nothing out of St. Louis, but one of those 3 sources said that there is a 75% the deal will get done. The Blues' needs are a top 4 left-handed defenseman.
Perfect! We have Tomas Kaberle.

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Old
07-17-2012, 08:42 PM
  #743
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I always wonder....how does a deal be complete at 75%? How can you exactly quantified a possible deal? Those educated guessers are just funny. So we get Berglund and trade Kaberle. I'm great with that.

Note: When people use 5 sources to say that a lot of people are talking about it....if nobody of these sources are credible, it means, that 1 people talked about it, and 4 other people are just going with what the first one talked about. It's never about 5 people coming from 5 different sources....

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Old
07-17-2012, 08:44 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
HABSINSIDEMAN, HabsTalk11, and icitdev are the sources that are talking about Berglund.
Sorry to disappoint but not legit. Look out for Renaud Lavoie (all Habs + rest of NHL), Kypreos (sometimes) and Freidge's 30 Thoughts.

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Old
07-17-2012, 08:58 PM
  #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedBlue42 View Post
Hey guys, Blues fan here in peace. So as some of you may already know, there have been rumors on Twitter about the Habs getting really close on landing Patrik Berglund. What are your thoughts, and has there been any new updates on the Habs' side of things? Nothing really new on the Blues side. Thanks.
Didn't see those rumours.

But, other than size, what does Berglund bring to the Habs? He had 38 points last season.

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07-17-2012, 09:02 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Didn't see those rumours.

But, other than size, what does Berglund bring to the Habs? He had 38 points last season.
Highest producer had 54 pts. 38 is not fantastic but context matters, I'm sure Berglund can get a solid 45-50 points on average on a more open system. Good skill. He's already hit higher than those point totals he essentially, he can probably be a solid 2nd line center for us. Unfortunately, the rumours are from non-credible sources so irrelevant.

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Old
07-17-2012, 09:22 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Yep, I've also convinced myself that the hawks traded their great supporting cast for picks and prospects after winning the cup. I keep doing this, telling myself these lies and living in denial.
I find his position here somewhat laughable. Usually I like 417 as a poster, but here he's just being stubborn, he's got this idea that the cap doesn't matter so he'll defend his point to no end.

I also find it funny that he comments continuously about capologists and is always active in any cap related discussion, but is quick to label others as obsessed.

You can't discuss player value without discussing his cap hit, that's reality, even when it comes to trading those players.

I agree with 417's overall premise that the cap isn't as constraining as sometimes thought, but it's still vitally important to proper roster building. Like I said, if Gomez made 900k, he wouldn't be a problem at all. It's not a player evaluation issue, it's a misappropriation of funds issue.

I think he made a good point one day on the subject and has now stretched it beyond where it needed to go.

Cap usage is important, is it the only important thing? no. Lets move on. We're going to continue to discuss cap hits, you telling us it's too confusing and difficult to understand isn't going to change that. Even though there is nothing difficult or hard to understand about managing a salary cap. It's pretty straight forward.

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Old
07-17-2012, 09:28 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Not at all. Semin is a very skilled forward, but skill isn't the only thing. I have nothing against the guy. I just don't want him.

Not a single GM would rate him in the same ball park as Parise. They must not like him either. It's like comparing Kaberle with Subban because kabs had more points, that's how big the gap is imo. Or Desharnais with Pleks and so on.
No, it's not. The fact I have to explain to you the difference is again worrisome.

Parise gets more attention because he gets the good old north american hardworking boy name tag while Semin gets the good old lazy russian who doesn't want to win one.

Semin is a great two way forward, he's got good speed, great stickhandling, amazing shot, great accuracy, great offensive flare and vision. He's a better offensive threat than Parise. He's also quite reliable defensively, but people don't really know that because he's just painted as this bad guy for some reason.
The only thing Parise really has over Semin is the intensity, that's it. He doesn't have a better shot, he doesn't have better hands, the doesn't have better vision. You can also add the leadership skills as well if you want.

But I don't see why this has to turn into a Parise vs Semin debate.
Sure, there's more to hockey than scoring, but when your team has struggled in that department, you might actually want to FIX the damn recurring problem, and when a guy who's offensively more gifted than Parise is being dismissed for no apparent reason, it makes me laugh.

And yes, you don't like Semin, or at least don't care about him, otherwise you would want him. He makes our whole offensive team better. But that's not enough to you. He would have to turn us into a contender, otherwise it's not worth it. That makes no sense. You add a strong player one year, let the kids grow as well, they get to benefit from player versus weaker opponents, they become better in the next years, you keep building and adding new strong pieces. One piece at a time.

We obviously don't have the same opinion of Semin. I think it's pretty darn obvious he could make a difference, and that's exactly what you want when you get a player.

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Old
07-17-2012, 09:43 PM
  #749
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No, it's not. The fact I have to explain to you the difference is again worrisome.

Parise gets more attention because he gets the good old north american hardworking boy name tag while Semin gets the good old lazy russian who doesn't want to win one.

Semin is a great two way forward, he's got good speed, great stickhandling, amazing shot, great accuracy, great offensive flare and vision. He's a better offensive threat than Parise. He's also quite reliable defensively, but people don't really know that because he's just painted as this bad guy for some reason.
The only thing Parise really has over Semin is the intensity, that's it. He doesn't have a better shot, he doesn't have better hands, the doesn't have better vision. You can also add the leadership skills as well if you want.

But I don't see why this has to turn into a Parise vs Semin debate.
Sure, there's more to hockey than scoring, but when your team has struggled in that department, you might actually want to FIX the damn recurring problem, and when a guy who's offensively more gifted than Parise is being dismissed for no apparent reason, it makes me laugh.

And yes, you don't like Semin, or at least don't care about him, otherwise you would want him. He makes our whole offensive team better. But that's not enough to you. He would have to turn us into a contender, otherwise it's not worth it. That makes no sense. You add a strong player one year, let the kids grow as well, they get to benefit from player versus weaker opponents, they become better in the next years, you keep building and adding new strong pieces. One piece at a time.

We obviously don't have the same opinion of Semin. I think it's pretty darn obvious he could make a difference, and that's exactly what you want when you get a player.
You hit it right on the nail here.

People will denied... or maybe doesn't even realize it but this all comes down to the american boy vs the me-barely-speak-english-you-know russian. If Semin is from Canada or US.. and can speak english fluently to defend himself, it would be a whole different story. I can guarantee it. Semin is an easy target.

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07-17-2012, 09:48 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
We obviously don't have the same opinion of Semin. I think it's pretty darn obvious he could make a difference, and that's exactly what you want when you get a player.

i have nothing against Semin, and agree that he "could" make a difference...

the problem is on the cost of "could".

Hard to know what it will finally cost to sign him, but given the rumored KHL offers, and the fact that several teams out there also "could" use him, it's not hard to imagine it will take a multi-year deal in the 6-7M$ range to get it done.


That, imo, is too much of a commitment to make for a guy who "could" be a difference maker. While our previous management team was ok with rolling the dice on high paid players with question marks, I think, at least I hope, that Bergie and co. take a more reasoned and conservative approach when targeting premium-priced UFA's.


i don't see Semin accepting a deal with the length of term (1-3 yrs) or $$ amount (sub-6M$) that would make sense for us from a roster/risk management pov.

too risky to offer more, not a "sure" enough positive addition to be worth that risk, at least not for a team already tight up against the cap and with several bad contracts extending beyond this year.


all that said, if Molson gave the go ahead, and Gomez got the Hamilton demotion, going 2-4 years @ ~6M$ would then seem like a more sensible risk.

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