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Vanek for Duchene

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Old
07-08-2012, 07:57 PM
  #1
Lil Jim 1031
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Vanek for Duchene

Here's a new article from the Denver Post suggesting Matt Duchene should be traded to acquire a top-line winger:

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_...ene-smart-idea

The Vanek thread and this tidbit got me thinking. If we are looking to build based around our younger core (Myers, Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno, McNabb, Grigorenko, etc..), Darcy should commit to it. In that case, I would definitely be in favor of a deal based around Duchene and Vanek. Colorado gets its top-line scoring winger, and we get a dynamic player who would fit in perfectly with our younger core. I know Duchene had a down year, but he is a potential superstar, one year removed from a 67 pt campaign, and still only 21. He can play center, or could be an ideal winger for Hodgson, who he had great chemistry with in juniors, when Grigorenko is ready.

Initial proposal (keeping it simple, having a hard time gauging Duchene's value after his injury plagued year):

To Buf: Matt Duchene

To Col: Thomas Vanek

Thoughts? What would be have to be added from either side to make it work, assuming that Colorado would even listen to offers for him?

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07-08-2012, 08:03 PM
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I'd do it straight up, but I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell this comes even remotely close to happening

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07-08-2012, 08:07 PM
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Bosswally
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I would want more from colorado, Vanek is a proven winger good for about 30g and 60 pts and can play tough minutes, dont sell him short, Duchene is young, younger than Ennis and Hodgson and yes he did play injured last year but so was Vanek and he still managed 60 pts, maybe Duchene and a 2nd round pick is worth taking a look at

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07-08-2012, 08:10 PM
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Colorado does this why??? Instead of giving away a valuable asset like Duchene to acquire Vanek, they can get one for free in Semin.

I'd do it though as a Buffalo fan though.

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07-08-2012, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosswally View Post
I would want more from colorado, Vanek is a proven winger good for about 30g and 60 pts and can play tough minutes, dont sell him short, Duchene is young, younger than Ennis and Hodgson and yes he did play injured last year but so was Vanek and he still managed 60 pts, maybe Duchene and a 2nd round pick is worth taking a look at
Duchene in his last fully healthy season put up 67 points. At the age of 20. If anyone's kicking in more, it's Buffalo. The kid's got awesome, awesome upside and is already delivering on it. If Colorado were daft enough to put him on the market, hop on that like a fat kid on the proverbial smarty.

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07-08-2012, 08:19 PM
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Jame
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wait... some people actually think colorado has to add?


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07-08-2012, 08:23 PM
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Rob Paxon
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As much as I'm against the Stastny-Vanek stuff, this is such a ridiculous no-brainer. He'd be our instant best center (maybe Grigorenko's better long-term but that's fortune telling) and the value is so good it scarcely matters how it fits in long-term... if it means both Ennis AND Girgensons end up at wing then so be it.

Colorado would be mad to trade the younger, cheaper, arguably better centerman for the much older, much more expensive winger. No chance they consider this deal nor are they likely to consider any realistic deal for Duchene from any team.

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07-08-2012, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
wait... some people actually think colorado has to add?

Lol thought the same thing. If we're offered that we better accept

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07-08-2012, 08:32 PM
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If Colorado traded Duchene, it would be extremely dumb. He has franchise player talent, you don't move him.

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07-08-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
As much as I'm against the Stastny-Vanek stuff, this is such a ridiculous no-brainer. He'd be our instant best center (maybe Grigorenko's better long-term but that's fortune telling) and the value is so good it scarcely matters how it fits in long-term... if it means both Ennis AND Girgensons end up at wing then so be it.

Colorado would be mad to trade the younger, cheaper, arguably better centerman for the much older, much more expensive winger. No chance they consider this deal nor are they likely to consider any realistic deal for Duchene from any team.
Especially after resigning not to long ago

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07-08-2012, 08:45 PM
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Myllz
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We should go after someone more available like Crosby.


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07-08-2012, 08:52 PM
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dma0034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
wait... some people actually think colorado has to add?

Since you like stats:


200910 81 24 31 55
201011 80 27 40 67
201112 58 14 14 28

----

200910 71 28 25 53
201011 80 32 41 73
201112 78 26 35 61

Vanek has produced more and scores more goals period. *Vanek's first three seasons are way better that Duchene. Duchene's value is low right now. It is like all the Rangers fans who thing Dubinsky is worth more than Stafford because he can be a 20 goal scorer. What is so impressive about Duchenes stats?

Am I the only one who understands how valuable Vanek is? See Rick Nash's price.... it's that!

Oh by the way.... last three seasons of Derek Roy and Matt Duchene:

195 53 95 148 (Roy)
219 65 85 150 (Duchene)

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07-08-2012, 08:55 PM
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thefifagod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Since you like stats:


2009–10 81 24 31 55
2010–11 80 27 40 67
2011–12 58 14 14 28

----

2009–10 71 28 25 53
2010–11 80 32 41 73
2011–12 78 26 35 61

Vanek has produced more and scores more goals period. *Vanek's first three seasons are way better that Duchene. Duchene's value is low right now. It is like all the Rangers fans who thing Dubinsky is worth more than Stafford because he can be a 20 goal scorer. What is so impressive about Duchenes stats?

Am I the only one who understands how valuable Vanek is? See Rick Nash's price.... it's that!

Oh by the way.... last three seasons of Derek Roy and Matt Duchene:

195 53 95 148 (Roy)
219 65 85 150 (Duchene)
Comparing Duchene's 18-20 year old seasons versus Roy's and Vanek's 26-28. Logical.

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07-08-2012, 08:57 PM
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Wal Nichushkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Since you like stats:


200910 81 24 31 55
201011 80 27 40 67
201112 58 14 14 28

----

200910 71 28 25 53
201011 80 32 41 73
201112 78 26 35 61

Vanek has produced more and scores more goals period. *Vanek's first three seasons are way better that Duchene. Duchene's value is low right now. It is like all the Rangers fans who thing Dubinsky is worth more than Stafford because he can be a 20 goal scorer. What is so impressive about Duchenes stats?

Am I the only one who understands how valuable Vanek is? See Rick Nash's price.... it's that!

Oh by the way.... last three seasons of Derek Roy and Matt Duchene:

195 53 95 148 (Roy)
219 65 85 150 (Duchene)

The kid is 21. Bump this when Duchene is 27, you'll be eating crow.

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Old
07-08-2012, 08:58 PM
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MeowLeafs
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Buffalo has to add at least a 1st imo

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:04 PM
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dma0034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
Comparing Duchene's 18-20 year old seasons versus Roy's and Vanek's 26-28. Logical.
Okay lets compared Roy's and Vanek's first three years:

Vanek
200506 81 25 23 48
200607 82 43 41 84
200708 82 36 28 64
------
245 104 92 196

Roy
2005-2006 70 18 28 46
20062007 75 21 42 63
20072008 78 32 49 81
-----
223 71 119 190

Duchene
219 65 85 150

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:04 PM
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kirby11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Since you like stats:


200910 81 24 31 55
201011 80 27 40 67
201112 58 14 14 28

----

200910 71 28 25 53
201011 80 32 41 73
201112 78 26 35 61

Vanek has produced more and scores more goals period. *Vanek's first three seasons are way better that Duchene. Duchene's value is low right now. It is like all the Rangers fans who thing Dubinsky is worth more than Stafford because he can be a 20 goal scorer. What is so impressive about Duchenes stats?

Am I the only one who understands how valuable Vanek is? See Rick Nash's price.... it's that!

Oh by the way.... last three seasons of Derek Roy and Matt Duchene:

195 53 95 148 (Roy)
219 65 85 150 (Duchene)
what's so impressive about duchene's stats...well, let's see, at the age of 20 (2010-2011 year) he scored 6 fewer points than vanek did in one of his prime years (around age 27)
also howson is an idiot and is demanding way too much for rick nash

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:05 PM
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tsujimoto74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
The kid is 21. Bump this when Duchene is 27, you'll be eating crow.
Vanek's first 3 years of stats:
GP G A P
81 25 23 48
82 43 41 84
82 36 28 64



Better than Duchene, even if you knock off the 3rd year of each to account for Duchene's injury problems.

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:09 PM
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dma0034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirby11 View Post
what's so impressive about duchene's stats...well, let's see, at the age of 20 (2010-2011 year) he scored 6 fewer points than vanek did in one of his prime years (around age 27)
also howson is an idiot and is demanding way too much for rick nash
He also scored less points than Ehrhoff last year. What is your point? Gerbe scored 25 last year btw in 62. Duchene 28 in 58? I think those are comparable.

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:13 PM
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Lil Jim 1031
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
We should go after someone more available like Crosby.

Comparing the availability of Duchene to Crosby is laughable. Did Crosby ever average 0.48 ppg over the course of a season? Far cry. I understand Duchene had some injuries last year and he's still extremely young, but his play did regress nonetheless. He was in Sacco's doghouse most of the time when he did play, and only managed a measly 28 pts in 58 games.

With that said, he does have franchise potential. But it still is "potential." He is not there just yet and he still carries with him some risk. As I said in my opening post, I would be all for a swap based around Duchene and Vanek, but I don't think the proposal is outlandish. Colorado has a huge need for a goal scoring winger, and their strength is down the middle with Statsny, O'Reilly, Duchene, and possibly Hishon, in the future if healthy.

Also, I think some of us may be selling Vanek a bit short here.

He is a legit top-line scoring winger in the prime of his career at 28. He has hit 40 goals twice and has never scored less than 25 in any season. Since the 2006-2007 season, there are only 5 players in the NHL with more goals than Vanek: Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Iginla, Heatley, and Malkin. That is impressive company.

His peripherals are comparable to R. Nash, and he's on a slightly better contract. He has developed a strong two-way game and has not been given big-time minutes by Ruff like most superstars on other teams are. In fact, he ranked 143rd last year for forwards in ice-time per game at 16:56. Put him on a line next to Statsny in Colorado, geting 18-20 minutes per game, and pencil him in for 35+ goals per year.

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:14 PM
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tsujimoto74
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idk why we need another young scoring/skilled center anyway, tbh. Between Ennis, Hodgson, Grigorenko, and Girgensons, I think we've got enough of those.

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07-08-2012, 09:18 PM
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Thomas Vanek's seasons at 19 and 20 years of age were with the Gophers. Roy at 18 and 19 was still in Kitchener, playing in the OHL. Duchene, at 18, put up a 55-point rookie season and then at 19, topped it with a 67-point, first line output year in the NHL. There is a reason this kid went third overall in '09 and was in conversation to go higher -- he's extremely talented and mature. Buffalo has to add to make that deal work... and the Avs GM has to be struck in the head repeatedly with a large blunt object to even consider it.

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07-08-2012, 09:18 PM
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Colorado wouldn't do this due to Duchene's upside. However, Vanek gets seriously underrated around here at times. Buffalo fans want to dump him for peanuts.

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Old
07-08-2012, 09:20 PM
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Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Okay lets compared Roy's and Vanek's first three years:

Vanek
200506 81 25 23 48
200607 82 43 41 84
200708 82 36 28 64
------
245 104 92 196

Roy
2005-2006 70 18 28 46
20062007 75 21 42 63
20072008 78 32 49 81
-----
223 71 119 190

Duchene
219 65 85 150
Duchene's first 3 years in the NHL at 18, 19, and 20 yrs of age... the comparable is Vanek's 2 yrs at Minnesota, and 1 yr in Rochester...


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Old
07-08-2012, 09:21 PM
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dma0034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Thomas Vanek's seasons at 19 and 20 years of age were with the Gophers. Roy at 18 and 19 was still in Kitchener, playing in the OHL. Duchene, at 18, put up a 55-point rookie season and then at 19, topped it with a 67-point, first line output year in the NHL. There is a reason this kid went third overall in '09 and was in conversation to go higher -- he's extremely talented and mature. Buffalo has to add to make that deal work... and the Avs GM has to be struck in the head repeatedly with a large blunt object to even consider it.
Then at age 20 put up 28 points in 58 games.

I'm with you, I like Duchene and would consider dealing Vanek for him.... it would have to be Duchene+ though

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