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Each team's Mt. Rushmore?

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Old
07-13-2012, 08:54 PM
  #76
Kharlamov17
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Detroit
Howe
Yzerman
Lidstrom
Sawchuk

Edmonton
Gretzky
Messier
Kurri
Coffey

Montreal
Rocket
Beliveau
Morenz
Plante

Pittsburgh
Lemieux
Crosby
Jagr
Malkin

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Old
07-13-2012, 09:01 PM
  #77
TheDevilMadeMe
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Seeing your name made me think of the great national teams of the USSR and CSSR and what their teams would look like:

USSR: Valeri Kharlamov, Vladislav Tretiak, Slava Fetisov, Anatoli Firsov
CSSR: Vladimir Martinec, Frantisek Pospisil, Jan Suchy, Jiri Holecek

I think Sergei Makarov is probably the best Soviet forward ever, but Firsov and Kharlamov are more important

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Old
07-13-2012, 09:04 PM
  #78
Kharlamov17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Seeing your name made me think of the great national teams of the USSR and CSSR and what their teams would look like:

USSR: Valeri Kharlamov, Vladislav Tretiak, Slava Fetisov, Anatoli Firsov
CSSR: Vladimir Martinec, Frantisek Pospisil, Jan Suchy, Jiri Holecek

I think Sergei Makarov is probably the best Soviet forward ever, but Firsov and Kharlamov are more important

Good choices.

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Old
07-13-2012, 09:18 PM
  #79
Tawnos
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Rangers:

Patrick
Francis
Bathgate
Leetch

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Old
07-14-2012, 09:31 AM
  #80
SMantzas
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Devils:
Brodeur
Stevens
Elias
Lamoriello

Thrashers (2nd favorite team of all time)
Kovalchuk
Heatley
Hossa
Savard??

Any thrashers fans wanna help me out?

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Old
07-14-2012, 11:24 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Devils:
Brodeur
Stevens
Elias
Lamoriello

Thrashers (2nd favorite team of all time)
Kovalchuk
Heatley
Hossa
Savard??

Any thrashers fans wanna help me out?
Probably Savard or Kozlov.... Others would be Lehtonen (easily best goalie we had), Mellanby, Holik.. (not many to choose from hah)

Then we could always throw in Damien Rhodes and Patrik Stefan to really show how pathetic those 11 years were....

Coyotes:
Roenick
Doan
Tkachuk
Numminen....?
Others, Tocchet, Khabibbulin, is it too early for Smith?

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Old
07-14-2012, 12:27 PM
  #82
Rutkowski
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Coyotes:
Teppo Numminen
Keith Tkachuk
Shane Doan
Sean Burke

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Old
07-22-2012, 02:25 PM
  #83
PelagicJoe
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Red Wings - Gordie Howe, Steve Yzerman, Nicklas Lidstrom, Sergei Fedorov

Oilers - Gretzky, Kurri, Coffey, Messier

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Old
07-22-2012, 04:21 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Skobel24 View Post
Nieuwendyk? Lehtinen? Belfour?

For the Flames....

Iginla
Fleury

Then 2 of Vernon, Kiprusoff, MacInnis.
Those four minus Vernon, I think. If there was a fifth player to make a case for, it'd be McDonald.

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Old
07-22-2012, 04:43 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by zico20 View Post
Blues

Hull
Sutter
Federko
Macinnis

hate to leave Plager off that list!
Take Sutter off, as he and the Blues do not seem to be on the friendliest of terms.

Brett Hull, Barclay Plager, Bernie Federko, Al Macinnis. There really should be a spot for Red Berenson, too.

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Old
07-23-2012, 10:35 PM
  #86
Clown Baby
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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
Flyers

Bobby Clarke
Bernie Parent
Eric Lindros
Mark Howe
Clarke, yes. Parent, yes. Barber, absolutely yes. Howe and Lindros could be argued either way.

Lindros - Captain, Hart Trophy, Lester B. Pearson Trophy, First Team, Second Team, Highest PPG

Howe - First Team (3x), All-Time SHG Leader (Defensemen), HHOF

Barber - First Team, Second Team (2x), Stanley Cup (2x), HHOF

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Old
07-24-2012, 09:50 AM
  #87
hockey17jp
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Columbus Blue Jackets

Rick Nash
David Vyborny
Rostislav Klesla
Geoff Sanderson

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Old
07-24-2012, 03:08 PM
  #88
fish7
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Take Sutter off, as he and the Blues do not seem to be on the friendliest of terms.

Brett Hull, Barclay Plager, Bernie Federko, Al Macinnis. There really should be a spot for Red Berenson, too.
While I loved watching Al Macinnis play for the Blues, he does not belong on our mount Rushmore. He played way too long for another team and accomplished more with them.

Barclay Plager and Brian Sutter were the heart of the Blues and Red Berenson, Garry Unger, Bernie Federko and Brett Hull,were the face of the team for the 60's, 70s, 80s, and 90s respectively. It is hard for me to choose only two of those guys to join Sutter and Plager.

you know Bob Plager probably deserves a spot because he has been with the team since day #1

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Old
07-31-2012, 09:38 PM
  #89
mapletoft
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OILERS:

Gretzky
Messier
Kurri
Anderson

RANGERS:

Gretzky
Messier
Kurri
Anderson

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Old
07-31-2012, 11:31 PM
  #90
Zil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapletoft View Post
OILERS:

Gretzky
Messier
Kurri
Anderson

RANGERS:

Gretzky
Messier
Kurri
Anderson
That's not remotely clever or accurate.

Rangers:
Boucher
Gilbert
Messier
Leetch

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Old
08-01-2012, 12:13 AM
  #91
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Flyers

Bobby Clarke
Bernie Parent
Bill Barber
Mark Howe


Just took the HOFers. I really do think these are our 4 best.

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Old
08-01-2012, 01:07 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
That's not remotely clever or accurate.

Rangers:
Boucher
Gilbert
Messier
Leetch
Speaking of not accurate...

Bill Cook and Andy Bathgate are clearly the best RWs to play for New York. Gilbert is not even close.

Mark Messier had most of his best years in Edmonton. 6 good years in New York is nothing compared to what a lot of other guys did there.

The order in which you place these guys is certainly debatable, but the 4 names are very easy to pick out.

#1 - Andy Bathgate: between 1955 and 1964, Bathagte led the NHL in assists and was 3rd in scoring, close behind Gordie Howe and Jean Beliveau. That's 10 years of elite-level service, and no other Ranger comes close.

#2 - Bill Cook: led the league in scoring twice, and in goals three times as a Ranger. He helped win 2 Stanley Cups. He had a lot more help and a lot less competition than Bathgate.

#3 - Frank Boucher: led the league in assists three times, and was second four more times. Also helped win 2 Stanley Cups.

#4 - Brian Leetch: best defenseman to play for the franchice. Conn Smythe and a Stanley Cup.

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08-01-2012, 03:12 AM
  #93
Zil
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Speaking of not accurate...

Bill Cook and Andy Bathgate are clearly the best RWs to play for New York. Gilbert is not even close.

Mark Messier had most of his best years in Edmonton. 6 good years in New York is nothing compared to what a lot of other guys did there.

The order in which you place these guys is certainly debatable, but the 4 names are very easy to pick out.

#1 - Andy Bathgate: between 1955 and 1964, Bathagte led the NHL in assists and was 3rd in scoring, close behind Gordie Howe and Jean Beliveau. That's 10 years of elite-level service, and no other Ranger comes close.

#2 - Bill Cook: led the league in scoring twice, and in goals three times as a Ranger. He helped win 2 Stanley Cups. He had a lot more help and a lot less competition than Bathgate.

#3 - Frank Boucher: led the league in assists three times, and was second four more times. Also helped win 2 Stanley Cups.

#4 - Brian Leetch: best defenseman to play for the franchice. Conn Smythe and a Stanley Cup.
I am aware of the stature of both Bathgate and Cook, however, in terms of importance to the Rangers the four I picked are the four that should be there.

Messier has to be there for bringing the organization its only cup of the modern era. His contributions and lasting presence within the organization make his slot paramount.

Gilbert is the flag bearer for the 70s Rangers teams of the GAG line and Park. He's also done much more in service to the organization post-retirement than either Bathgate or Cook. Plus, it should be noted that Gilbert is responsible for bringing Jean Ratelle along to the Rangers.

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"A man named Yvon Prud'homme invited me to play senior hockey with men in their late-twenties. We played for the Allan Cup. I was just fourteen." Rod had no trouble keeping up with men ten years his senior. "This man, Yvon Prud'homme, had been hired by the New York Rangers to start a competitive Junior B league in Montreal. When he signed me, I told him, 'I have a friend I've been playing with since I was a kid and he's better than me. Sign him up and we'll play together.' He signed Jean Ratelle without ever seeing him play."

http://www.hhof.com/htmlSpotlight/sp...ep198202.shtml
Both Bathgate and Cook might have been better players than Gilbert when compared against their peers. But the fact of the matter is that the Bathgate Rangers teams were completely forgettable. Meanwhile, the bread line Rangers teams already have a representative in Boucher, who trumps Cook because he also coached the 1940 team.

Leetch's spot is non-negotiable of course.


Last edited by Zil: 08-01-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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Old
08-01-2012, 05:41 AM
  #94
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
I am aware of the stature of both Bathgate and Cook, however, in terms of importance to the Rangers the four I picked are the four that should be there.

Messier has to be there for bringing the organization its only cup of the modern era. His contributions and lasting presence within the organization make his slot paramount.

Gilbert is the flag bearer for the 70s Rangers teams of the GAG line and Park. He's also done much more in service to the organization post-retirement than either Bathgate or Cook. Plus, it should be noted that Gilbert is responsible for bring Jean Ratelle along to the Rangers.



Both Bathgate and Cook might have been better players than Gilbert when compared against their peers. But the fact of the matter is that the Bathgate Rangers teams were completely forgettable. Meanwhile, the bread line Rangers teams already have a representative in Boucher, who trumps Cook because he also coached the 1940 team.

Leetch's spot is non-negotiable of course.
We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

I think the players who did the most on the ice should be honored. Messier and Gilbert probably are both outside the top-10 in that category.

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08-01-2012, 04:34 PM
  #95
Zil
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

I think the players who did the most on the ice should be honored. Messier and Gilbert probably are both outside the top-10 in that category.
You're vastly overrating what Bathgate and Cook did on the ice in comparison to Messier and Gilbert.

Bathgate scored 272 goals and had 457 assists for 729 points in 719 games with the Rangers (1.01 ppg). Messier scored 250 goals and had 441 assists for 691 points in 698 games with the Rangers (.99 ppg). Both won a Hart with the club. The key difference is that Messier led the Rangers to a cup with a massive run in 94 (30 points in 23 games). Bathgate may have never had the teammate to match Messier's cup, but it's hard to imagine him doing more in the playoffs than Messier did.

Meanwhile, Gilbert is the Rangers' all time leader in goals and points and is second all time in assists to Leetch. He is the only man to score 400 or more goals with the Rangers. He is the only man to score 1,000 or more points with the Rangers. He was first team all star and a second team all star once each. And, I would add that bringing Ratelle to the Rangers certainly made an impact on the ice.

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Old
08-01-2012, 04:41 PM
  #96
TheDevilMadeMe
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If you're including Messier for captaining the 1994 Cup winner, don't you also need to include Bill Cook for being the captain and best player of 2 Cup winners?

For me, Bill Cook and Brian Leetch are the two easy picks for the Rangers.

After that, you pick two of:

Lester Patrick, Frank Boucher, Andy Bathgate, Rod Gilbert, and Mark Messier.

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Old
08-01-2012, 06:28 PM
  #97
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
You're vastly overrating what Bathgate and Cook did on the ice in comparison to Messier and Gilbert.

Bathgate scored 272 goals and had 457 assists for 729 points in 719 games with the Rangers (1.01 ppg). Messier scored 250 goals and had 441 assists for 691 points in 698 games with the Rangers (.99 ppg). Both won a Hart with the club. The key difference is that Messier led the Rangers to a cup with a massive run in 94 (30 points in 23 games). Bathgate may have never had the teammate to match Messier's cup, but it's hard to imagine him doing more in the playoffs than Messier did.
1.01 PPG in the 50s and 60s is way more impressive than 0.99 PPG in the 90s. It's really not even close.

Mark Messier's best season as a Ranger was 107 points in 1992. It's a good total, but it was only 5th in the league. Andy Bathgate, on the other hand, never broke 90 points, but was top-5 in league scoring 9 seasons in a row.

Quote:
Meanwhile, Gilbert is the Rangers' all time leader in goals and points and is second all time in assists to Leetch. He is the only man to score 400 or more goals with the Rangers. He is the only man to score 1,000 or more points with the Rangers. He was first team all star and a second team all star once each.
Once again, you fail to take into account the impact of playing in different eras. Gilbert played most of his prime in the high-scoring post-expansion NHL. He may be the leader in some franchise stats, but he was nothing even close to Bathgate or Cook.

Bill Cook didn't score 400 goals, but he did lead the NHL in goals three times. Same with Bathgate - he didn't break 400, but he's still a much more accomplished goalscorer than Gilbert.

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08-01-2012, 06:29 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If you're including Messier for captaining the 1994 Cup winner, don't you also need to include Bill Cook for being the captain and best player of 2 Cup winners?

For me, Bill Cook and Brian Leetch are the two easy picks for the Rangers.

After that, you pick two of:

Lester Patrick, Frank Boucher, Andy Bathgate, Rod Gilbert, and Mark Messier.
How can you possibly justify Messier over Boucher or Gilbert over Bathgate?

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08-01-2012, 07:04 PM
  #99
TheDevilMadeMe
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How can you possibly justify Messier over Boucher or Gilbert over Bathgate?
Because for a franchise that spent most of their history as a bottom feeder, 1994 was probably the ultimate defining moment. And Messier and Leetch were the stars and faces of that team. Combined with Messier's largely than life persona, I'd say he's by far the most recognizable hockey player in the New York area and one of the most recognizable athletes in any sport. And it's not like 1994 is all he did. He did win a Hart Trophy in 1992 and was runner up for another in 1996 with the team.

The Rangers were a laughingstock when Bathgate played for them. So even though he was the best Ranger between 1940 and 1990, he might not have been the most important one.

Gilbert recognizes the Rangers revival in the 1970s and is their all-time leading scorer.

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08-01-2012, 07:04 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If you're including Messier for captaining the 1994 Cup winner, don't you also need to include Bill Cook for being the captain and best player of 2 Cup winners?

For me, Bill Cook and Brian Leetch are the two easy picks for the Rangers.

After that, you pick two of:

Lester Patrick, Frank Boucher, Andy Bathgate, Rod Gilbert, and Mark Messier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
How can you possibly justify Messier over Boucher or Gilbert over Bathgate?
To me it's all about overall importance to the franchise. That combines on-ice contributions, team accomplishments, and post-retirement presence. Bathgate really sags in the last two categories. Cook excels in the first two categories, but not in third. He coached the Rangers for a couple forgettable seasons in the 50s.

Leetch and Messier have to be there. They were great players on the ice, were the two biggest factors (along with Richter) in bringing the franchise its only cup in the last 72 years, and they remain big presences within the organization.

Boucher has the Hall of Fame credentials, the two cups as a player, and he coached the team to its 1940 cup win. He also served as GM for many years.

Gilbert's a Hall of Famer too. The GAG line and Park teams led the Rangers to relevance for the first time in 20 years. Say whatever you want about adjusted points, but being the team's all time leader in goals and points is a major factor. Nobody's even close to him in total goals. Leetch is the only guy who's close in points. Both the fact that Gilbert was the first Ranger to have his number retired and his continued presence as a team ambassador speak to his prominence within the organization.

I'm not saying that Cook and Bathgate weren't great, great players. They were. They both had great stats and Cook even won two cups. But their overall impact on the shape of the Rangers as they stand today doesn't measure up to the four I picked. If this were a measurement of importance to the overall history of hockey, then Cook and Bathgate would rank higher than Gilbert. But we're talking about the Rangers here, not hockey as a whole.

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