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Roberto Luongo XXII - Quantam of SoLuuuuuce [Mod Warning post 540]

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07-09-2012, 03:05 PM
  #151
Tim McCracken
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Instead of continuing the never ending loop of "who created the current canucks roster", i think what Gillis wants in return for Luo will hinge greatly on whether Doan chooses Vancouver or not. If he does, I can see Gillia accepting more in the way of prospects and picks rather than a roster player. If Doan does sign I can see GMMG possibly accepting something like Lombardi (3c space), Blacker/Frattin and a 2nd.

If we dont get Doan hell want a top 6 winger and a lesser prospect probably.
I don't know, maybe it's best Gillis makes the Luongo deal before assessing what else he needs. Kadri, Lombardi and Percy/Blacker would do even if the Canucks have to add a bit. Signing Doan would give them a lot of wingers anyway.

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07-09-2012, 03:09 PM
  #152
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It's not Burkes fault the nucks pissed away two Stanley Cup seasons & I bet you would have found a way to discredit Burke if they nucks won too.
Burke would have been, what, 6, 7, seasons removed from having any influence on this team. He is a non-factor on how the team is built now on the ice. The fact is, he did give away a good portion of our future here, grossly mismanaged players (He wasn't GM until the year Bure requested a trade, but he was part of the organization, RJ Umberger, potential deals with Whitney and Gretzky he actively takes credit for squashing) and left the team as a mess.

Gillis may not be a saviour like Leafs fans are construing from our comments, but Burke did as much (I'd say more) harm then good. Even the trump card of the Sedins isn't good enough, yes, he got them, but at what point did they become Art Ross winners? Not with the "talent" Burke and Nonis had them playing with.

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Old
07-09-2012, 03:43 PM
  #153
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actual proposal here for a second.


Luongo + 2013 1st round + Raymond

for

Bjugstad + 2013 1st round + Theo

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Old
07-09-2012, 03:47 PM
  #154
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We're gonna run out of Bond movies before he gets traded.

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07-09-2012, 03:48 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by jammyrft View Post
actual proposal here for a second.


Luongo + 2013 1st round + Raymond

for

Bjugstad + 2013 1st round + Theo
Awful for the Panthers. They give up a top prospect and potentially take a huge step down in the 1st round. They also take on a huge amount of cap. And Raymond, the guy who just got arbitrated, is being traded?

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07-09-2012, 03:50 PM
  #156
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We're not getting Bjugstad for Luongo. Bjugstad is their Kesler, let it be and walk away.

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07-09-2012, 03:50 PM
  #157
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Awful for the Panthers. They give up a top prospect and potentially take a huge step down in the 1st round. They also take on a huge amount of cap. And Raymond, the guy who just got arbitrated, is being traded?
And gain a FREAKING GREAT goalie! That deal is miles away from being awful for the Panthers.

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07-09-2012, 03:52 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
We're not getting Bjugstad for Luongo. Bjugstad is their Kesler, let it be and walk away.
To the fans, sure. Not saying we are getting him, but he is still a prospect. Dang good one, but still a prospect. I know you're not saying he is in Kesler's league, but really I don't think the value is off.

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07-09-2012, 03:53 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Awful for the Panthers. They give up a top prospect and potentially take a huge step down in the 1st round. They also take on a huge amount of cap. And Raymond, the guy who just got arbitrated, is being traded?

It's not an awful trade at all i don't think. Panthers need to take on some cap, and they also need some scoring/speed in their lineup considering they filled up some roster spots with a couple tough guys.

If a trade is to be had you have to give. I may be wrong but I think the value for both teams is very good actually, this also makes a good "hockey trade". I might be wrong and I'm sure 98% of posters will disagree with me.

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07-09-2012, 03:55 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by ziploc View Post
And gain a FREAKING GREAT goalie! That deal is miles away from being awful for the Panthers.
The upgrade from Theodore to Luongo is not worth giving up their top prospect, downgrading their 1st round pick to a very late first, taking all the immediate cap, and taking on Luongo's long term contract.

Luongo is the better goalie, but Theodore and Luongo had identical numbers last year.

No team is trading a prospect like Bjugstad unless they are force into it through horrible contract negotiations. 6'5'' centre who took a massive step forward in his development last year. Forget about it. The fact you are asking for Florida's first on top of that is laughable. Pull Bjugstad out of the proposal and that is a much more realistic starting point.

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07-09-2012, 04:01 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by ziploc View Post
And gain a FREAKING GREAT goalie! That deal is miles away from being awful for the Panthers.
The Panthers can't take on that salary without sending something the other way, and have no desire to swap to an inevitable bottom 3 1st round pick for their pick that really could be anywhere.

Plain and simple -- the Panthers don't need Luongo. They're not giving that much up for him, and if they are Vancouver is, too. Vancouver's going to take a hit.

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Old
07-09-2012, 04:01 PM
  #162
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It's hard to predict so keep that in mind while reading my upcoming post.

Goal tending is by far the most important position in hockey. If you don't have solid goaltending chances are your team will suck. When a trade is made the team that usually "wins" the trade recieves the best player involved. That being said I'm sure when Luongo is traded he will be the best player involved. No one will deny that Bjugstad will probably have a great career and be one hell of a player but as it sits right now he's just a prospect. There are 100x more prospects who fail then actually live up to their potential. It's more of a risk taking on prospects then it is taking on proven players.

If I had to predict I bet when it's all said and done, both Luongo's and Bjugstad's careers are over Luongo will have the more successful career. He'll probably set more records, achieve more accolades and have a better career at their respective position.



so while I agree trading Bjugstad is a big gamble for the Panthers, you have to give to get. The good thing about this trade is both teams have depth in those positions. Van has depth in goal so they can give up a piece, Fla has depth in prospects so they can also give up a piece.

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07-09-2012, 04:18 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by jammyrft View Post
It's hard to predict so keep that in mind while reading my upcoming post.

Goal tending is by far the most important position in hockey. If you don't have solid goaltending chances are your team will suck. When a trade is made the team that usually "wins" the trade recieves the best player involved. That being said I'm sure when Luongo is traded he will be the best player involved. No one will deny that Bjugstad will probably have a great career and be one hell of a player but as it sits right now he's just a prospect. There are 100x more prospects who fail then actually live up to their potential. It's more of a risk taking on prospects then it is taking on proven players.

If I had to predict I bet when it's all said and done, both Luongo's and Bjugstad's careers are over Luongo will have the more successful career. He'll probably set more records, achieve more accolades and have a better career at their respective position.



so while I agree trading Bjugstad is a big gamble for the Panthers, you have to give to get. The good thing about this trade is both teams have depth in those positions. Van has depth in goal so they can give up a piece, Fla has depth in prospects so they can also give up a piece.
Florida has only two quality blueline prospects in Petrovic and Robak (Matheson is a project by all accounts), and with Jovanovski, Weaver and Kuba getting long in the tooth, along with Ellerby being signed only through next season, the Panthers must hang on to Petrovic and Robak out of necessity.

As for forwards, Florida has three youngsters that are huge (at least 6'3") and skilled: Howden, Shore and Bjugstad. They're going nowhere.

Florida's next three best forwards are Grimaldi, Trochek and Rau. They're all under 6'. Personally, I wouldn't even trade any of those three in a Luongo deal as they are all highly skilled, but one or two of Rau, Trocheck or Grimaldi is the best you can hope for.

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Old
07-09-2012, 04:18 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by jammyrft View Post
It's hard to predict so keep that in mind while reading my upcoming post.

Goal tending is by far the most important position in hockey. If you don't have solid goaltending chances are your team will suck. When a trade is made the team that usually "wins" the trade recieves the best player involved. That being said I'm sure when Luongo is traded he will be the best player involved. No one will deny that Bjugstad will probably have a great career and be one hell of a player but as it sits right now he's just a prospect. There are 100x more prospects who fail then actually live up to their potential. It's more of a risk taking on prospects then it is taking on proven players.

If I had to predict I bet when it's all said and done, both Luongo's and Bjugstad's careers are over Luongo will have the more successful career. He'll probably set more records, achieve more accolades and have a better career at their respective position.



so while I agree trading Bjugstad is a big gamble for the Panthers, you have to give to get. The good thing about this trade is both teams have depth in those positions. Van has depth in goal so they can give up a piece, Fla has depth in prospects so they can also give up a piece.
The problem with your argument is, when you have a 10 year (even minimum 6 year) goalie contract and a 33 year old goalie, their no certainty to how that goalie will perform through the duration of that contract. Therefore, you'd be potentially filling your most important position with a sub-par goalie in the future.

Florida is not a team that can afford to bury a 6 million dollar contract in the minors. The Luongo contract has the possibility to sink their organization.

Quite frankly I just cannot see Florida getting into a bidding war for Luongo that would involve giving up a 1st rounder, giving up Bjugstad, taking on the extra cap from Luongo/Raymond, and taking on a 33 year old goalie on a 10 year deal.

If Vancouver convinces Florida to take Luongo, the cap swaps will be close to even. Florida will be giving up a roster player and a 2-3rd round pick. No Bjugstad and no 1st rounder.

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Old
07-09-2012, 04:21 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by jammyrft View Post
actual proposal here for a second.


Luongo + 2013 1st round + Raymond

for

Bjugstad + 2013 1st round + Theo
Y... Nooo

Bjugstad is going nowhere, and youre not getting the 1st either. Keep dreaming..

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Old
07-09-2012, 04:22 PM
  #166
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Again, what incentive does Florida have to get bent over backwards? Vancouver is not dealing from a position of strength here, which is why Luongo is still a Canuck. They are not going to get much more than a marginal return for him, espcially when you consider his "rep", age, contract, and very limited scope on preferred destinations. If he does end up in Florida it will basically be fore "free."

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07-09-2012, 04:23 PM
  #167
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Again, what incentive does Florida have top get bent over backwards here? Vancouver is not dealing from a position of strength here, which is why Luongo is still a Canuck. They are not going to get much more than a marginal return for him, espcially when you consider his "rep", age, contract, and very limited scope on preferred destinations. If he does end up in Florida it will basically be fore "free."
Exactly. Its not FL needs Luongo. Its Luongo wants FL.

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Old
07-09-2012, 04:24 PM
  #168
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To the fans, sure. Not saying we are getting him, but he is still a prospect. Dang good one, but still a prospect. I know you're not saying he is in Kesler's league, but really I don't think the value is off.
Have you paid attention at all? Tallon has clearly stated he wont trade any of our highend prospects AT ALL!

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07-09-2012, 04:26 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Again, what incentive does Florida have to get bent over backwards? Vancouver is not dealing from a position of strength here, which is why Luongo is still a Canuck. They are not going to get much more than a marginal return for him, espcially when you consider his "rep", age, contract, and very limited scope on preferred destinations. If he does end up in Florida it will basically be fore "free."
Everybody agrees with you except Canuck fans surprisingly.

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07-09-2012, 04:27 PM
  #170
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Bjugstad is not going to be traded in a Luongo deal. Tallon would rather stab out his eyes. He has wet dreams about Bjugstad.

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07-09-2012, 04:31 PM
  #171
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There is a crap load of available money right now but not a lot of good options to spend it on.

Would you rather have your team take Luongo's contract or Carle's?

The focus is on Florida and Toronto, but there are likely lots of other teams interested.

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07-09-2012, 04:35 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Again, what incentive does Florida have to get bent over backwards? Vancouver is not dealing from a position of strength here, which is why Luongo is still a Canuck. They are not going to get much more than a marginal return for him, espcially when you consider his "rep", age, contract, and very limited scope on preferred destinations. If he does end up in Florida it will basically be fore "free."
He's still a Canuck because Mike Gillis asking for a King's ransom. Not because other teams haven't offered anything of value. HUGE difference there.

There were reports Gillis turned down a deal with Luke Schenn in it...

I don't believe for a second Tallon will move Bjugstad. And apparently that's what Gillis is holding out for. They will find a middle ground IMO.

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07-09-2012, 04:35 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
There is a crap load of available money right now but not a lot of good options to spend it on.

Would you rather have your team take Luongo's contract or Carle's?

The focus is on Florida and Toronto, but there are likely lots of other teams interested.
Outside of say Columbus who would be severely interested?


EDIT: and with Columbus getting Bob I doubt they are really keen now.

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07-09-2012, 04:42 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
He's still a Canuck because Mike Gillis asking for a King's ransom. Not because other teams haven't offered anything of value. HUGE difference there.

There were reports Gillis turned down a deal with Luke Schenn in it...

I don't believe for a second Tallon will move Bjugstad. And apparently that's what Gillis is holding out for. They will find a middle ground IMO.
Well, I think the jury's still out on Schenn....

Fair enough though. Howson and Gillis seem to be suffering from the same affliction.

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07-09-2012, 04:42 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
There is a crap load of available money right now but not a lot of good options to spend it on.

Would you rather have your team take Luongo's contract or Carle's?

The focus is on Florida and Toronto, but there are likely lots of other teams interested.
Considerations for a team like Florida are not the same as Toronto. Florida is a budget team and does not care about the cap. Florida is concerned with actual salaries. Paying 33 year old Luongo 6 mil a season for the next 6 years is a genuine concern.

The Carle comparison is not really relevant. An upderperforming D-man will cost you 1-2 milliion a year. A underperforming goalie sinks the team.

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