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Roberto Luongo XXII - Quantam of SoLuuuuuce [Mod Warning post 540]

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07-09-2012, 04:46 PM
  #176
Drop the Sopel
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Well, I think the jury's still out on Schenn....

Fair enough though. Howson and Gillis seem to be suffering from the same affliction.
I wanted no part of Schenn but he did return JVR. So there is value there.

Saying Luongo has no value becaise he's still a canuck is akin to saying nash has no value because he's still a Blue Jacket...

Something tells me general managers have a different perception of Luongo than people on HF. But that's just me.

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07-09-2012, 04:52 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Again, what incentive does Florida have to get bent over backwards? Vancouver is not dealing from a position of strength here, which is why Luongo is still a Canuck. They are not going to get much more than a marginal return for him, espcially when you consider his "rep", age, contract, and very limited scope on preferred destinations. If he does end up in Florida it will basically be fore "free."
it occurs to me that Luongo has a great contract for FLA, especially with a rising cap.

In a few years, Luongo will be costing them negative value compared to the cap hit. If he is still (why wouldnt he be) a top goalie, his 5.3 cap is fantastic and if he has declined, his cap hit vs his salary will be surely helpful to a budget team like FLA.

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07-09-2012, 04:55 PM
  #178
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We're not getting Bjugstad for Luongo. Bjugstad is their Kesler, let it be and walk away.
But Kesler is an NHL player.

Bjugstad is not even their top prospect. He's not even a lock to make the NHL, he's still in college.

He's their Jensen.

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07-09-2012, 04:56 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I wanted no part of Schenn but he did return JVR. So there is value there.

Saying Luongo has no value becaise he's still a canuck is akin to saying nash has no value because he's still a Blue Jacket...

Something tells me general managers have a different perception of Luongo than people on HF. But that's just me.
Well, I think Toronto got a steal there, but like I said the jury is out.

I'll backtrack and say Luongo has value, but it is limited and only for certain teams. I just don't see the incentive here for Florida (for instance) to offer much of substance in a trade. Why would a developing franchise give up valuable assets to enhance a position (marginally) that they are relatively okay in?

Gillis is asking for the moon here and he isn't going to get it.

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07-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #180
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But Kesler is an NHL player.

Bjugstad is not even their top prospect. He's not even a lock to make the NHL, he's still in college.

He's their Jensen.
Uhm,lol?

Bjugstad is NHL ready, or very close. Bjugstad is our second best prospect, and has elite upside.

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07-09-2012, 04:58 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by They call me Tytan View Post
it occurs to me that Luongo has a great contract for FLA, especially with a rising cap.

In a few years, Luongo will be costing them negative value compared to the cap hit. If he is still (why wouldnt he be) a top goalie, his 5.3 cap is fantastic and if he has declined, his cap hit vs his salary will be surely helpful to a budget team like FLA.
I think Luongo could bring value to Florida, just not at the expense of giving up much in return. Gillis has a situation on his hands here that requires finesse and expedience to deal with. If Florida will trade for Luongo and offer a moderate return he should get the deal done ASAP.

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07-09-2012, 04:59 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
But Kesler is an NHL player.

Bjugstad is not even their top prospect. He's not even a lock to make the NHL, he's still in college.

He's their Jensen.
Except Bjugstad is twice Jensen's size with comparable/superior skill. The only reason he won't be in the NHL this year is because he chooses to return to Minny. He's more like their Kreider.

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07-09-2012, 05:01 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
Uhm,lol?

Bjugstad is NHL ready, or very close. Bjugstad is our second best prospect, and has elite upside.
I disagree about him being NHL ready. He's got upside, but upside only goes so far.

Anyone who would trade Ryan Kesler for Nick Bjugstad is an idiot.

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07-09-2012, 05:02 PM
  #184
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Except Bjugstad is twice Jensen's size with comparable/superior skill. The only reason he won't be in the NHL this year is because he chooses to return to Minny. He's more like their Kreider.
Bjugstad is 12 feet tall and 400lbs?

Wow.

Jensen is listed at 6'2" 202lbs on the Canucks website

Bjugstad is 6'6" 215lbs on the Panthers website, he's definitely taller, but they are both skilled players.

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07-09-2012, 05:05 PM
  #185
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Bjugstad is 12 feet tall and 400lbs?

Wow.
That 63 inch stick is going to look silly in his hands.

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07-09-2012, 05:05 PM
  #186
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They will find a middle ground IMO.
There will be no "middle ground" between Tallon and Gillis. Tallon's initial offer, which I'm guessing is some combination of salary dumps (Bergenheim, Kopecky, Goc, Upshall/NHL-level goalies (Theodore, Clemmensen)/future draft picks outside of the first round/prospects not named Shore, Howden, Huberdeau or Bjugstad, is his last. There will now be a three month wait to see if Chicago or Toronto panics and trumps Tallon's offer, and if they haven't already (and, clearly, they haven't), the likelihood that either O6 franchise would suddenly have a change of heart in the next 90+ days is very slim.

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07-09-2012, 05:05 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by They call me Tytan View Post
it occurs to me that Luongo has a great contract for FLA, especially with a rising cap.

In a few years, Luongo will be costing them negative value compared to the cap hit. If he is still (why wouldnt he be) a top goalie, his 5.3 cap is fantastic and if he has declined, his cap hit vs his salary will be surely helpful to a budget team like FLA.
His salary is higher than his cap hit by about 1.5 million for the next 6 years. How does that help a budget team?

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07-09-2012, 05:08 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I disagree about him being NHL ready. He's got upside, but upside only goes so far.

Anyone who would trade Ryan Kesler for Nick Bjugstad is an idiot.
Tallon and the rest of Panthers management think he's ready to compete for a spot on the Panthers. Bjugstad is still deciding whether or not to return to college, he will decide in the next few days.

I don't think anyone suggested Bjugstad has the same value as Kesler right now. I think they are saying that he projects to be the Panthers' Kesler in the future.

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07-09-2012, 05:11 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Tallon and the rest of Panthers management think he's ready to compete for a spot on the Panthers. Bjugstad is still deciding whether or not to return to college, he will decide in the next few days.

I don't think anyone suggested Bjugstad has the same value as Kesler right now. I think they are saying that he projects to be the Panthers' Kesler in the future.
That's what I was trying to say, you put it much more succinctly than I did.

I don't think Panthers fans are opposed to paying a high price for luongo, but as a budget team the need their top prospect performing on their ELCs to take on luongos salary.

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07-09-2012, 05:13 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
That's what I was trying to say, you put it much more succinctly than I did.

I don't think Panthers fans are opposed to paying a high price for luongo, but as a budget team the need their top prospect performing on their ELCs to take on luongos salary.
Yeah, pretty much. With the org. now enthralled by Bjugstad I could see Drew Shore traded in the deal.

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07-09-2012, 05:15 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Tallon and the rest of Panthers management think he's ready to compete for a spot on the Panthers. Bjugstad is still deciding whether or not to return to college, he will decide in the next few days.

I don't think anyone suggested Bjugstad has the same value as Kesler right now. I think they are saying that he projects to be the Panthers' Kesler in the future.
A fellow Canuck fan called Bjugstad "their Kesler".

Fair enough, he's a good prospect, its why I want him for a proven elite NHL goalie.

I would just temper expecations, I don't think Huberdeau or Bjugstad are ready to make significant impacts in the NHL, but we wont know until we see it, right?

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07-09-2012, 05:17 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Tallon and the rest of Panthers management think he's ready to compete for a spot on the Panthers. Bjugstad is still deciding whether or not to return to college, he will decide in the next few days.

I don't think anyone suggested Bjugstad has the same value as Kesler right now. I think they are saying that he projects to be the Panthers' Kesler in the future.
This. Bjugstad is a stud. He is a safe bet to become a good NHL player.

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07-09-2012, 05:19 PM
  #193
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Without Grabo, doesn't you centre depth go to ****?

Doesn't it become:

Bozak
Connoloy
Colbourne
Kadri
Not quite, sans Grabo we would still have,

Bozak
Kadri
Connolly
Colborne
McClement
Steckel
Lombardi


JVR

Not the best group of centers but not the worst either.

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07-09-2012, 05:21 PM
  #194
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Yeah, pretty much. With the org. now enthralled by Bjugstad I could see Drew Shore traded in the deal.
Drew Shore and Alex Petrovic are the prospect names that make the most sense IMO. Tallon will be hesitant to move Petrovic but Kulikov and Gudbranson ahead of him make it a possibility.

To Fla- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Petrovic, Shore, Upshall

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07-09-2012, 05:22 PM
  #195
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Not quite, sans Grabo we would still have,

Bozak
Kadri
Connolly
Colborne
McClement
Steckel
Lombardi


JVR

Not the best group of centers but not the worst either.
I don't think the Leafs can afford to lose Grabo - no offense but that is a very weak group of centers.

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07-09-2012, 05:24 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Drew Shore and Alex Petrovic are the prospect names that make the most sense IMO. Tallon will be hesitant to move Petrovic but Kulikov and Gudbranson ahead of him make it a possibility.

To Fla- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Petrovic, Shore, Upshall
It seems good to me.

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07-09-2012, 05:31 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by They call me Tytan View Post
it occurs to me that Luongo has a great contract for FLA, especially with a rising cap.

In a few years, Luongo will be costing them negative value compared to the cap hit. If he is still (why wouldnt he be) a top goalie, his 5.3 cap is fantastic and if he has declined, his cap hit vs his salary will be surely helpful to a budget team like FLA.
You don't understand. He gets $6.7M for... 6 more years? For a budget team, salary is paramount, not cap. Whether or not they have the budget to pay him $6.7M for those years is the question and the one factor they have to consider most. That could handcuff them big time.

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07-09-2012, 05:31 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Drew Shore and Alex Petrovic are the prospect names that make the most sense IMO. Tallon will be hesitant to move Petrovic but Kulikov and Gudbranson ahead of him make it a possibility.

To Fla- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Petrovic, Shore, Upshall
Tallon is very high on Petrovic. I can see Robak being traded before Petro imo.

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07-09-2012, 05:34 PM
  #199
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It seems good to me.
Tallon isn't trading two of our top prospects, you can bank on it.

Like MR, I could see Shore being dangled in a Luongo trade but I'm not sold on it.

Tallon will deal with the hand he has and it isn't a great hand. But hey, Gillis could have 2-7 for all we know and have no choice but to call Tallon. Gillis is bluffing IMO and Roberto has the best hand of every people involved.

Luongo is the one who will decide which deal Gillis can take. And I got a feeling it is the Panthers'. Not just because I'm a Panthers fan, but because Luongo will follow the girl and the girl is from South-Florida !

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07-09-2012, 05:38 PM
  #200
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Tallon is very high on Petrovic. I can see Robak being traded before Petro imo.
Nobody is high on Robak, looks like career AHLer to me.

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