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Sharks courting Doan

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07-20-2012, 07:13 PM
  #476
SpinTheBlackCircle
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Originally Posted by Improvise View Post
Doan is a 20+ goal scorer, likes hitting, and can win faceoffs. Not to mention he is obviously a vocal leader that backs his talk up and consistent in his effort. He is like Clowe on steroids and exactly the type of player the Sharks need.
Doan took 18 face-offs last year.

And Clowe is Doan on steroids. Doan doesn't fight. He just cheap shots people.

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07-20-2012, 07:14 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
Doan took 18 face-offs last year.

And Clowe is Doan on steroids. Doan doesn't fight. He just cheap shots people.
Good this team needs someone who goes out on the ledge once in a while. That's what they said about marchmant too.

Doan is also faster than clowe.

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07-20-2012, 07:15 PM
  #478
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We lOoked like fools when we picked a fight with the blues after losing. I'd rather lose with class.

The sharks do say all the right things to the media, but they are still just a season removed from two wcq appearances. If anyone is to blame it was the dismantling of that bottom six and moving pavelski up. It was a lack of foresight and I for one agree that one player doesn't change that. I'm also glad they are taking their time this off season, of course it could also show the lack of options out there that we havent made any moves.

DW looks like the bad guy in the McGinn trade, and realistically you'd have to think McGinn could've taken clowes spot at some point and have more success there, but to me Burish is better on paper than winnik and will be better in the locker room. Galiardi is the x factor here and next season is the only way we can evaluate that trade. I'll be pretty shocked if McGinn hits 20 goals 40 PTs without being in the avs top 6 all season.

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07-20-2012, 07:16 PM
  #479
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Drew is not coaching in part because he really doesn't understand leadership. He adheres to the romanticized notion of confrontational leadership (George Patton ideal).
The NY rangers coach does this too and it's worked out pretty good for him so far....

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07-20-2012, 07:16 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
No doubt. I always hated that the sharks never responded like Calgary or edmonton did loosing a playoff against them a few years ago. Iginla would go nuts and pick fights. The sharks just took their beating like good little soldiers instead of going down fighting. There's something to be said for showing that loosing hurts.
I guess you missed the Sharks/Preds line brawl a few years back haha.

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07-20-2012, 07:18 PM
  #481
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I guess you missed the Sharks/Preds line brawl a few years back haha.
The pred initiated it I'm sure... this team has too many cupcakes to stand up for itself on a consistent basis.

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07-20-2012, 07:21 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
We lOoked like fools when we picked a fight with the blues after losing. I'd rather lose with class.
Hockey is the wrong sport to look for class. Teams that lose with class are easy outs. No way should you lose a first round series without drawing a little blood.

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07-20-2012, 07:35 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
Hockey is the wrong sport to look for class. Teams that lose with class are easy outs. No way should you lose a first round series without drawing a little blood.
Well the sharks fought after a loss, but it must've not been enough for you since you are Forgetting the times it's happened. But I guess the handshake at the end lacks class too.

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07-20-2012, 08:09 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
The pred initiated it I'm sure... this team has too many cupcakes to stand up for itself on a consistent basis.
No the Sharks were down 5-2 and Ryane Clowe started it if I recall...he went after a Pred but ended up smashing Jordin Tootoo. The Sharks have lost both ways.

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07-20-2012, 08:12 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
Well the sharks fought after a loss, but it must've not been enough for you since you are Forgetting the times it's happened. But I guess the handshake at the end lacks class too.
I didn't say the sport is devoid of it but it's not the norm. The sharks barely raised a fuss after any of their losses in the last 5 or 6 years other than when what's his name went ballistic against the canucks... I've seen more emotion in amateur games than what the majority of the sharks put up. Standing around hugging a neighbor isn't putting up a fight.

There's a good reason why the got TJ and Burish and why they want Doan. Even Nash is more emotional in a loss than some of the sharks. It's not all their fault they just lack the player type. Even the redwings seem to put up more of a fight when they're loosing a series. But they have specific players for that type of thing. Funny thing though is that some of the hardest hits when the sharks faced the wings in the playoffs were from Datsuyk.

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07-20-2012, 08:13 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
No the Sharks were down 5-2 and Ryane Clowe started it if I recall...he went after a Pred but ended up smashing Jordin Tootoo. The Sharks have lost both ways.
He's their one guy... the sharks rarely lose while actually putting up a fight.

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07-20-2012, 08:14 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
Frankly you don't know this. Throwing a teammate under the bus most often happens in the locker room where none of us will ever see it or hear about it. Calling out a teammate in front of the rest of the team is how a captain throws a teammate under the bus so to speak. They never would do it thru the media. Coaches use that as their tool.
Frankly, I do. Throwing a teammate under the bus is making critical comments in public. He has not done that in his career so far as I know. That was what I initially said in that post anyway. If he tries to hold a player accountable, it will remain private and it's not the same thing as throwing them under the bus. Either way, none of this happens in his first year here so it's rather pointless and there's plenty of evidence to support that...see Dan Boyle and Rob Blake in their first seasons.

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07-20-2012, 08:18 PM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
Doan took 18 face-offs last year.

And Clowe is Doan on steroids. Doan doesn't fight. He just cheap shots people.
Doan is one of the most respected players in the league and rightfully so.

Clowe's skating, speed, shot, passing, puck handling, are all vastly inferior to Doan. Doan is a true power forward with a scoring touch.

Clowe shouldn't even be in the same sentence as Doan. Doan has been one of the most consistent players in the league over the last 10 years. He has scored 20+ goals in 10 of the last 11 seasons. Clowe can't even put back to back 20+ goal seasons.

And while I appreciate the fact that Clowe isn't afraid to scrap, it shouldn't be the best thing a top 6 forward offers. Outside of Clowe's strong board play, he has been incredibly inconsistent on the stat sheet and in effort.

I know hit stats are skewed, so take it for whatever it's worth, but Doan had 205 hits last season. Clowe had 109 according to yahoo sports.

I rather have a guy who wreaks havoc while the puck is in play instead of in between whistles.

It's also silly to think that guy with Doan's pedigree won't come in from day 1 and be very well respected and a locker room presence. His leadership will immediately make an impact. He is an old school hockey player that plays with a chip on his shoulder, he is exactly what the Sharks lack.

I firmly believe that the Sharks don't need more Havlats/Marleaus/Semins, etc. They need more Dustin Browns / Michael Richards / Ryan Callahans, etc. They need toughness, grit, leaders, who work hard every single shift and make their presence felt one way or another.

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07-20-2012, 08:22 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Frankly, I do. Throwing a teammate under the bus is making critical comments in public. He has not done that in his career so far as I know. That was what I initially said in that post anyway. If he tries to hold a player accountable, it will remain private and it's not the same thing as throwing them under the bus. Either way, none of this happens in his first year here so it's rather pointless and there's plenty of evidence to support that...see Dan Boyle and Rob Blake in their first seasons.
If your captain talks to you privately that's calling you out. Doing it in front of your teammates is what most people here are advocating for. They want a fire breather. But no captain does it in the media. It doesn't happen. No one would ever trust the captain again. Coaches are a different story though but it works only rarely for them. You pretty much have to be Messier to do it the media and not lose the room.

So when people here say throw under the bus they don't mean calling out in the media, they mean yelling at them in the locker room.


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07-20-2012, 08:26 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Improvise View Post
Doan is one of the most respected players in the league and rightfully so.

Clowe's skating, speed, shot, passing, puck handling, are all vastly inferior to Doan. Doan is a true power forward with a scoring touch.

Clowe shouldn't even be in the same sentence as Doan. Doan has been one of the most consistent players in the league over the last 10 years. He has scored 20+ goals in 10 of the last 11 seasons. Clowe can't even put back to back 20+ goal seasons.

And while I appreciate the fact that Clowe isn't afraid to scrap, it shouldn't be the best thing a top 6 forward offers. Outside of Clowe's strong board play, he has been incredibly inconsistent on the stat sheet and in effort.

I know hit stats are skewed, so take it for whatever it's worth, but Doan had 205 hits last season. Clowe had 109 according to yahoo sports.

I rather have a guy who wreaks havoc while the puck is in play instead of in between whistles.

It's also silly to think that guy with Doan's pedigree won't come in from day 1 and be very well respected and a locker room presence. His leadership will immediately make an impact. He is an old school hockey player that plays with a chip on his shoulder, he is exactly what the Sharks lack.

I firmly believe that the Sharks don't need more Havlats/Marleaus/Semins, etc. They need more Dustin Browns / Michael Richards / Ryan Callahans, etc. They need toughness, grit, leaders, who work hard every single shift and make their presence felt one way or another.
This. The best post I've read on this board regarding what this team needs. Although I like many are easily lured by semins talent level and what his stats really say. Personally I would love to sign Semin, then Sign Doan to "motivate" him. ;P Yes I know we'd have to ship out some salary and that's fine.

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07-20-2012, 08:27 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
If your captain talks to you privately that's calling you out. Doing it in front of your teammates is what most people here are advocating for. They want a fire breather. But no captain does it in the media. It doesn't happen. No one would ever trust the captain again. Coaches are a different story though but it works only rarely for them.

So when people here say throw under the bus they don't mean calling out in the media, they mean yelling at them in the locker room.
Your interpretation of those meanings are vastly different than mine so we'll leave it at that.

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07-20-2012, 08:35 PM
  #492
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Obviously, this is a much younger Doan, but just watch him on this shorthanded shift:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLad1f_xP7M

Clowe will *never* do anything like that in his career.

And to be honest, Doan is still fully capable of making that play. All he does is hit 2 people then skate toward the neck and shoot. He's obviously not as fast as he used to be but his speed isn't what makes that play. It's purely effort, will, and aggression.

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07-20-2012, 08:47 PM
  #493
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As usual, Doan is being massively overrated. He is not a better playmaker than Clowe, not nearly as tough, is about the same defensively, and is very inferior along the boards. Probably the most glorified 3rd liner in the NHL, I wouldn't be mad if we signed him, as long as it's not for more than $3.5m.

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07-20-2012, 08:51 PM
  #494
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As usual, Doan is being massively overrated. He is not a better playmaker than Clowe, not nearly as tough, is about the same defensively, and is very inferior along the boards. Probably the most glorified 3rd liner in the NHL, I wouldn't be mad if we signed him, as long as it's not for more than $3.5m.
And now you're underrating him. He's still a great Top-6 player, and he is better defensively than Clowe.

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07-20-2012, 10:16 PM
  #495
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The NY rangers coach does this too and it's worked out pretty good for him so far....
Torts understands leadership and is fiery. However in his stint with the Rangers, he hands out a lot more positives to temper his dark side. Of course the negative outbursts get the press so you need to spend time watching him when the TV pans the bench. I have watched a lot of Torts over the last few years and there is definitely a big move on his part towards more positivity.

Drew is pretty much all about fire and having fun (a little too much fun). Part of the issues with coaching players in the new millenia is that is not just a select few that are making obscene amounts of money. Many, many players are thrust early on in having to develop self-control that was previously done through lesser paychecks. Part of the responsibilities for all coaches is keeping that facet of the team in line and accountable.

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07-20-2012, 11:06 PM
  #496
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Let's keep it on topic fellas.

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07-20-2012, 11:11 PM
  #497
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Doan is pretty slow.... yet all I keep hearing on these boards is that we need speed, speed, and more SPEED!!

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07-20-2012, 11:18 PM
  #498
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Doan is pretty slow.... yet all I keep hearing on these boards is that we need speed, speed, and more SPEED!!
Overall, he is quicker than Clowe but he offers a couple things that would help in terms of meshing skill sets. He'd offer Clowe's physicality while being a pretty decent right-handed shot for Jumbo to pass to.

It would give them the flexibility to move either Clowe or Pavelski to the third line and have them carry it instead of relying on what is currently looking like Wingels/Galiardi-Handzus-Burish as a third line which will get toasted regularly.

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07-20-2012, 11:26 PM
  #499
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Overall, he is quicker than Clowe but he offers a couple things that would help in terms of meshing skill sets. He'd offer Clowe's physicality while being a pretty decent right-handed shot for Jumbo to pass to.

It would give them the flexibility to move either Clowe or Pavelski to the third line and have them carry it instead of relying on what is currently looking like Wingels/Galiardi-Handzus-Burish as a third line which will get toasted regularly.
But he's not much of a speed upgrade over Clowe, so why put Doan with Thornton? Just because of the right-handed shot? If that were the case, if Clowe had a right-handed shot would more fans be clamouring to see Clowe with Thornton? I think not.

Thus, we come back to the argument at hand.... Doan's speed. He is barely an upgrade over Clowe in that regard which is why I'm shocked so many fans (those who say we need more speed) want Doan.

I do, however, agree that his presence in the top 6 would allow Clowe or Pavs to drop to the 3rd line.

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07-20-2012, 11:32 PM
  #500
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But he's not much of a speed upgrade over Clowe, so why put Doan with Thornton? Just because of the right-handed shot? If that were the case, if Clowe had a right-handed shot would more fans be clamouring to see Clowe with Thornton? I think not.

Thus, we come back to the argument at hand.... Doan's speed. He is barely an upgrade over Clowe in that regard which is why I'm shocked so many fans (those who say we need more speed) want Doan.

I do, however, agree that his presence in the top 6 would allow Clowe or Pavs to drop to the 3rd line.
If Clowe were a consistent goal-scorer with a right-handed shot, yes I would. But he's not. He's a left-handed playmaking forward. Getting someone on the right side for Thornton isn't necessarily about speed. The left side, sure. The second line, sure. The ability to add Doan gives them more depth which is what they need up front.

Doan alone is not the ideal acquisition but that coupled with adding another winger with speed in the top six can make them more dangerous offensively. They may have to trade Clowe or Pavelski to get that done but if Doan wants to come aboard, they have to do it.

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