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If Nash is NOT traded....

View Poll Results: If Nash is NOT traded, what happens to start the 2012-2013 season?
Nash returns, keeps the C 32 32.00%
Nash returns, but gives up the C 58 58.00%
Nash refuses to report 6 6.00%
Something else (?) 4 4.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-10-2012, 11:51 AM
  #26
EspenK
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Prospal
a one term lame duck?

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07-10-2012, 12:14 PM
  #27
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a one term lame duck?
Prefer the term "Interim"

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07-10-2012, 12:51 PM
  #28
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Prefer the term "Interim"
Win.

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07-10-2012, 01:10 PM
  #29
1857 Howitzer
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Quick question, are some answer this question based on what they want to happen (Nash lossing the C) or what they think the team will do?

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@Aportzline: RT @skeezer1212: @Aportzline are you on record about if you think they should trade Nash, *Carter? / Not my place. Reporter, not columnist.
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Old
07-10-2012, 01:27 PM
  #30
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Who wears the "C" is one of the most overrated and least important things in the NHL. A leader will lead on and off the ice whether or not he has the "C". The room will follow and respond to those leaders irregardless of if they have extra letters on their uniforms or not.

The CBJ did not finish 30th in the NHL last year because the wrong guy wore the "C". They finished last because of a lack of talent throughout the organization. If Nash stays, I would have him continue to be the captain. Giving the "C" to someone else isn't going to miraculously fix the goaltending problem, make anyone into a top line center, or transform Richards into a top NHL coach. All it would do is perhaps "embarrass" him at a time when the CBJ needs him to be a leader and give 100% both on and off the ice.....either because the CBJ actually are able to ice a competitive team this year or because they need him to bring the optimal return when he is traded.

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07-10-2012, 01:36 PM
  #31
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Nash will return and play, I think he will be asked to give up the "C".

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07-10-2012, 03:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
Nash may have been at fault, Howson may have been at fault who really knows? Don't throw the baby out with the wash,, Rick Nash is the only credible star that this franchise has ever had. For goodness sake we finally have a decent blueline.. do something positive in free agency and let another year of his five year deal play out as a Jacket.

You know more about hockey TW (then I will ever know), - but you are a diehard fan, the fringe fans like me need a winner, and we need Nash more then other teams cast off prospects. We need to win asap, not 5 years from now. 5 years of building over and this franchise will be in Tronta or Hamilton.
A little late in free agency for Howson to do as you wish.

If Nash is back with this lineup as-is, you can mark off another wasted year. The blue line is good, but it isn't like we have a top pairing like Chicago or Anaheim in its hay day.

With that said, I call BS on this Toronto/Hamilton non-sense. The only way that is a possibility is via bankruptcy and even then bankruptcy courts do not always invalidate a lease (take a look at the whole Glendale mess for one example).

I predict that if Nash stays, he'll show up at camp. He'll get booed by a segment of the fanbase. He'll be as streaky as ever and the first time he has one of his down periods people will scream that he's underperforming because he wants out of town. Which will also lead to some locker room drama. If he gets injured all the people who screamed we should keep him unless we get the sun, moon and stars will suddenly scream that we should have traded him over the summer.

I could care less about whether he is captain or not, but I suspect, like Patrick Marleau, they'll take it away from him and have 3-4 Alternate Captains and once he is finally traded, to the surprise of no one, Jack Johnson will be the new captain.

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07-10-2012, 04:14 PM
  #33
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From a couple years ago when we were playoff contenders, whats changed? The D is absolutely better, and the offense is pretty close to being the same minus a very good playmaker in Voracek. We have loads of offense potentially from the back end though which I think will really help the forwards. Honestly easy to see top 3-5 in d-man scoring. We could use more high end skill which is why i'd like to see Huselius resigned, and really dont wanna see Nash moved. Not to mention Mason should not see more than 10-15 games imo. This is the NHL, any team at the beginnng of the year can finish top 10 or bottom 10.

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07-10-2012, 04:42 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I predict that if Nash stays, he'll show up at camp. He'll get booed by a segment of the fanbase. He'll be as streaky as ever and the first time he has one of his down periods people will scream that he's underperforming because he wants out of town. Which will also lead to some locker room drama.
I disagree. The public perception of a player does NOT influence the perception in the locker room. Take Carter for example, he was well liked by a number of the players despite his obviously not wanting to be here.

Public "screaming" doesn't amount to jack ****. Neither does locker room politics. People need to stop being silly and emphasizing "leadership" or "locker room cohesion." It's way overplayed.

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07-10-2012, 04:46 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
A little late in free agency for Howson to do as you wish.

If Nash is back with this lineup as-is, you can mark off another wasted year. The blue line is good, but it isn't like we have a top pairing like Chicago or Anaheim in its hay day.

With that said, I call BS on this Toronto/Hamilton non-sense. The only way that is a possibility is via bankruptcy and even then bankruptcy courts do not always invalidate a lease (take a look at the whole Glendale mess for one example).

I predict that if Nash stays, he'll show up at camp. He'll get booed by a segment of the fanbase. He'll be as streaky as ever and the first time he has one of his down periods people will scream that he's underperforming because he wants out of town. Which will also lead to some locker room drama. If he gets injured all the people who screamed we should keep him unless we get the sun, moon and stars will suddenly scream that we should have traded him over the summer.

I could care less about whether he is captain or not, but I suspect, like Patrick Marleau, they'll take it away from him and have 3-4 Alternate Captains and once he is finally traded, to the surprise of no one, Jack Johnson will be the new captain.
Adding to your points, if he does stay I fail to see how the team can move forward with a lame duck star player on the roster. As many have said, Nash needs to open up the teams on his list, I also think Howson should draw back on his trade demands to some degree if Nash does so.

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Old
07-10-2012, 05:04 PM
  #36
CapnCornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I disagree. The public perception of a player does NOT influence the perception in the locker room. Take Carter for example, he was well liked by a number of the players despite his obviously not wanting to be here.

Public "screaming" doesn't amount to jack ****. Neither does locker room politics. People need to stop being silly and emphasizing "leadership" or "locker room cohesion." It's way overplayed.
I probably couldn't disagree much more with this.

There are exceptions to the rule, but distractions like this often have an on-ice/on-field effect. I would think the results from the disastrous Jeff Carter Era would show you that player unhappiness can result in poor performance, but apparently not, so I don't think there is any point in you and I discussing this further.

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07-10-2012, 05:20 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Quick question, are some answer this question based on what they want to happen (Nash lossing the C) or what they think the team will do?
My intention was to answer based on what everyone thinks will happen, not necessarily what they want to happen. I want him to give up the C if he stays, unfortunately knowing how the CBJ operate I fear what will happen is he will come back, keep the C, and everyone involved with the CBJ will pretend none of this drama ever happened.....

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Old
07-10-2012, 06:00 PM
  #38
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I chose something else.

That something else is that I will not be renewing my partial season ticket plan until he is moved. I initially held off due to the possibility of moving but now that I'm remaining here in town, I could easily call up my rep from last year and plunk down money for the same quarter season plan I had.

Now, I can't see how this team can move forward at all with him still on the team. Even if he tries, there will still be a black cloud over the team as long as he is a part of it. I'll be on the phone with a ticket rep within 24 hours of a trade going down.

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07-10-2012, 06:09 PM
  #39
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I would give C Johnson or especially Prospal but IMO if he isnt be traded he will keep it. Nobody would strip him it IMO.

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07-10-2012, 06:27 PM
  #40
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Your star player is the subject of intense trade speculation and you're worried about whether or not you should name someone else Captain if he doesn't get moved? Wouldn't be the first time it's happened, and there's some reason to believe that it won't end so badly:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...9/ai_17519446/

I remember this saga very vividly, and for the sake of your team/fanbase, I sincerely hope that what happended in STL in the mid 90's happens in Columbus in the foreseeable future:

- The star player isn't traded (at this point, you're probably better off keeping Nash)
- The "C" is given to a grittier, more vocal player (in our case, Corson then Pronger; in your case, maybe Umberger or JMFJ?)
- Another "star" is acquired to play on the same line as the star player (we got Gretzky; Carter wasn't the answer, but there could be other options for Columbus)
- The GM is fired (the BEST possible scenario in Columbus)
- The coach is fired (already happened in Columbus)
- The new coach utilizes a defense-first system incorporating production from multiple lines, demanding less from the star player (Can this happen under Richards? By contrast, in Quenneville's first full season as STL coach, Geoff Courtnall led the team with 32 goals, Hull had 27, and three players had 22)

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07-10-2012, 06:40 PM
  #41
1857 Howitzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St1ngr View Post
My intention was to answer based on what everyone thinks will happen, not necessarily what they want to happen.
I think most have been answering based on what they want to happen.

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07-10-2012, 07:00 PM
  #42
CapnCornelius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Goose View Post
Your star player is the subject of intense trade speculation and you're worried about whether or not you should name someone else Captain if he doesn't get moved? Wouldn't be the first time it's happened, and there's some reason to believe that it won't end so badly:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...9/ai_17519446/

I remember this saga very vividly, and for the sake of your team/fanbase, I sincerely hope that what happended in STL in the mid 90's happens in Columbus in the foreseeable future:

- The star player isn't traded (at this point, you're probably better off keeping Nash)
- The "C" is given to a grittier, more vocal player (in our case, Corson then Pronger; in your case, maybe Umberger or JMFJ?)
- Another "star" is acquired to play on the same line as the star player (we got Gretzky; Carter wasn't the answer, but there could be other options for Columbus)
- The GM is fired (the BEST possible scenario in Columbus)
- The coach is fired (already happened in Columbus)
- The new coach utilizes a defense-first system incorporating production from multiple lines, demanding less from the star player (Can this happen under Richards? By contrast, in Quenneville's first full season as STL coach, Geoff Courtnall led the team with 32 goals, Hull had 27, and three players had 22)
I could be wrong, but I don't think Hull actually demanded a trade. If he did, his GM certainly wasn't the one who held a press conference to announce it.

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07-10-2012, 07:24 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I could be wrong, but I don't think Hull actually demanded a trade. If he did, his GM certainly wasn't the one who held a press conference to announce it.
This is true.

I was just trying to come up with a way to see how keeping Nash next season doesn't have to be a bad thing, and using one of the closest examples I could find. (considering the likely trade proposals, keeping Nash is probably the best idea)

That being said, keeping Nash AND Howson would be a tremendous mistake. I think if Nash stays and Howson (and Priest, for that matter) goes, the fans would forget about Rick's request for a trade and look forward, no?

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07-10-2012, 07:28 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
I think most have been answering based on what they want to happen.
Does that surprise you if true? Like it or not Nash sealed his fate in Columbus when he requested to be traded, regardless of his reasoning, noble or not, the dude wants out; how about addressing that.

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07-10-2012, 07:32 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Quick question, are some answer this question based on what they want to happen (Nash lossing the C) or what they think the team will do?
What I think(keeps C), not what I want(give it up)

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07-10-2012, 07:39 PM
  #46
1857 Howitzer
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Does that surprise you if true? Like it or not Nash sealed his fate in Columbus when he requested to be traded, regardless of his reasoning, noble or not, the dude wants out; how about addressing that.
No it doesn't, just pointing it out. Most of these polls get messed up because people do not answer based off of the question.

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07-10-2012, 08:14 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
I think most have been answering based on what they want to happen.
Although I don't think it's what will ultimately happen, I think the best possible ending to this saga would be keeping Nash without the C. IMO it would make this whole drama worth it if this whole mess acted like some kind of Dr. Seuss-type machine designed to strip the C off Nash's chest and change nothing else.

It is clear any possible return on Nash's trade will be undervalued. I cannot dream up any sequence of events that would turn the tables in Howson's favor between now and the start of the season. Possibly by the 2013 trade deadline, but not before then....

Nash with the C has gotten us nowhere for how many years now....

Nash without the C - maybe if he can focus on playing hockey and leave the leadership stuff to somebody more qualified like JJ or VP, he might just start to look like the beast he can be playing for team Canada...

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07-10-2012, 08:24 PM
  #48
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In theory, I can deal with Nash on the team if he is stripped of all leadership and the organizations stops pretending he is a leader. As we've all read, there has been a leadership core that has been established with JMFJ, Vinny, Dorsett, Umberger, and Wiz. If they are allowed to lead and just let Nash play hockey and not try to pretend t be a leader, I can be ok with Nash remaining on this team.

The key is if the organization would have the balls to take it away from him and he could handle it gracefully and understand it is what is best for the team. If he remains with the C, we are a lottery pick yet again as well as having dissension in the locker room from the other established leaders who are trying to be part of the solution.

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07-10-2012, 08:27 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St1ngr View Post
Although I don't think it's what will ultimately happen, I think the best possible ending to this saga would be keeping Nash without the C. IMO it would make this whole drama worth it if this whole mess acted like some kind of Dr. Seuss-type machine designed to strip the C off Nash's chest and change nothing else.

It is clear any possible return on Nash's trade will be undervalued. I cannot dream up any sequence of events that would turn the tables in Howson's favor between now and the start of the season. Possibly by the 2013 trade deadline, but not before then....

Nash with the C has gotten us nowhere for how many years now....

Nash without the C - maybe if he can focus on playing hockey and leave the leadership stuff to somebody more qualified like JJ or VP, he might just start to look like the beast he can be playing for team Canada...
I am one that thinks Nash will be with the team to start the season and I think he will kept the C. But personally I am torn on what I think should be done with the C. If Nash is not captain then who? I love JJ and VP as much as anyone, but I don't like giving the C to a player who's only played 20 games with the team and nor to a player who is here on a one year deal. Best case I guess is to start the season with three A's that rotate between Nash, RJ, JJ, Wiz, VP and Dors and see how things play out.

BTW I have said this before and I will say it again, who wears a C or A is the most overrated thing in the NHL.

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07-10-2012, 08:31 PM
  #50
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What does the team want?

That is the only question relevant to me on this issue -- not management, not Nash, and damn sure not the fans.

Whatever the 20+ guys in the room want, so be it.

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