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Rangers sign Jeff Halpern (1 year @ 700K)

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Old
07-12-2012, 04:18 AM
  #376
Barnaby
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Some people already do that.

They're wrong.
That's fine - as long as you can concede that Anisimov isn't either.

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07-12-2012, 04:24 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
That's fine - as long as you can concede that Anisimov isn't either.
He's not. He's a fine third line center. The "core" is Hank, Cally, Staal, McD, Richie and Gabby at this point.

That doesn't mean that i'm not going to defend him when somebody says Brian Boyle is better, though.

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07-12-2012, 04:30 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
He's not. He's a fine third line center. The "core" is Hank, Cally, Staal, McD, Richie and Gabby at this point.

That doesn't mean that i'm not going to defend him when somebody says Brian Boyle is better, though.
AA definitely has more talent. The better player today is debatable... I'm inclined to take Boyle - the guy who kills penalties and whose game is more conducive to playoff hockey.

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07-12-2012, 06:09 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
It's pretty obvious... Anisimov is 'home grown.' If Boyle was a 6th round draft pick by the Rangers 5 years ago, then we'd be discussing all the hard work he'd done to become a productive member of the team. We'd be talking about how he's a hard working part of 'the core.'

No one discusses that Anisimovs offense hasn't developed as hoped even though he's played on lines with the teams best offensive players. How's he's become a very mediocre 2-way forward, but hey, he's home grown.

Personally, I think this is put up or shut up year for AA...
He had a bad season, but the year before as a 2nd year player, he posted 18 goals and 26 assists for 44 points. If we believe that Dubinsky is allowed a mulligan, then why can't the same hold true for AA?

He's coming off that very good 2nd season, he comes to this past season and now he's playing wing after playing his whole career, Russia, AHL and NHL as a center and he's not allowed a mulligan?

And he STILL POSTED BETTER NUMBERS THAN BOYLE'S CAREER HIGH.

I don't believe anyone really thinks that Boyle is a consistent 20 goal guy. Not when his full season totals scream otherwise.

Boyle still has an important role on this team, I just don't believe it should be as a 3rd line center. He doesn't have the vision or hands for it.

We as a fan base talk about more scoring from the bottom 6 forwards and here we have an opportunity to create a 3rd line that has the ability to generate offence while being defensivly sound and some of you think that Boyle can be the guy the help generate that offence?

He's a solid defensive player, if he's better than AA in that regards, it's marginal at best. Where Boyle falls short is offensively where he cannot and does not make his teammates better.

I'm not expecting 45+ points from the 3rd line (although is would be nice) but 15+ goals and 20+ assists and good defensive awareness on average from the 3rd line pivot SHOULD be expected. Boyle has done nothing to show that he can produce those numbers consistently.

So while we MAY have a better defensive presence at 3rd line, we still have the problem of being able to generate scoring from that line.

I am MORE than willing to give a little (veyr little) defensively to generate more offensively.

This is not throwing defence to the wind as no one here can honestly say that AA is a bad defender. All this is doing is slotting players in position to BETTER help the team on an overall basis.

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07-12-2012, 07:54 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
He had a bad season, but the year before as a 2nd year player, he posted 18 goals and 26 assists for 44 points. If we believe that Dubinsky is allowed a mulligan, then why can't the same hold true for AA?

He's coming off that very good 2nd season, he comes to this past season and now he's playing wing after playing his whole career, Russia, AHL and NHL as a center and he's not allowed a mulligan?

And he STILL POSTED BETTER NUMBERS THAN BOYLE'S CAREER HIGH.

I don't believe anyone really thinks that Boyle is a consistent 20 goal guy. Not when his full season totals scream otherwise.

Boyle still has an important role on this team, I just don't believe it should be as a 3rd line center. He doesn't have the vision or hands for it.

We as a fan base talk about more scoring from the bottom 6 forwards and here we have an opportunity to create a 3rd line that has the ability to generate offence while being defensivly sound and some of you think that Boyle can be the guy the help generate that offence?

He's a solid defensive player, if he's better than AA in that regards, it's marginal at best. Where Boyle falls short is offensively where he cannot and does not make his teammates better.

I'm not expecting 45+ points from the 3rd line (although is would be nice) but 15+ goals and 20+ assists and good defensive awareness on average from the 3rd line pivot SHOULD be expected. Boyle has done nothing to show that he can produce those numbers consistently.

So while we MAY have a better defensive presence at 3rd line, we still have the problem of being able to generate scoring from that line.

I am MORE than willing to give a little (veyr little) defensively to generate more offensively.

This is not throwing defence to the wind as no one here can honestly say that AA is a bad defender. All this is doing is slotting players in position to BETTER help the team on an overall basis.
PLD the bolded part is completely inaccurate, AGAIN!

Anisimov has never scored 20 or more goals! His career high for points is 44 a gigantic difference of 9 points over Boyle's 35 while playing top 6 minutes on our best line in 2010-11 with Callahan and the points leader that year Dubinsky. Boyle does not play with that caliber of linemates and probably never will. Your argument is fruitless, Anisimov is an offensive minded player first and you want him to play with grinders and less skilled players centering the third line! That is not going to help his game, when are you going to get that?

Also Torts does not consistently roll 4 lines, I do NOT want Anisimov to be playing against Crosby, Giroux, Ovie, etc every game as his production will decrease because he will be in the defensive zone for most of his shifts.

I know what you are trying to say but the facts are:
1) We do not have the depth and skill to do what you want (3rd line that can score)
2) We do not have a coach that rolls all 4 lines consistently
3) Anisimov is not the defensive player you claim him to be or Boyle would have been moved to the wing over him

The only thing I will concede is Anisimov has better hands and better wheels than Boyle, but this is the NHL where players earn minutes and money based on their production, not their potential.

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07-12-2012, 09:27 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Your argument is fruitless, Anisimov is an offensive minded player first and you want him to play with grinders and less skilled players centering the third line! That is not going to help his game, when are you going to get that?
No, he wants our 3rd line to be more skilled overall. Most of last year, our 3rd line consisted of Dubinsky, Boyle and Mitchell (or Prust or Fedotenko). A 3rd line of Dubinsky-Anisimov-Pyatt is a major upgrade in terms of offensive skill. It's also a much more offensively minded line.

Stop making the assumption that our 3rd line is never going to be any more than players who are grinders with little skill and that they won't be offensive minded. It's like your brain is stuck in 1992. Guy Carbonneau is no longer a model 3rd liner. He's a model 4th liner. There's a reason why the Selke hasn't been given out to someone scoring less than 20 goals since Carbonneau won it in 1992. It's because that type of player no longer gets the minutes to be worthy of the Selke. (by the way, not a knock on Carbonneau. I really liked him as a player the same way I liked the guy your handle is taken from). That style was slowly phased out throughout the 90s. It basically doesn't exist today.

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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Also Torts does not consistently roll 4 lines, I do NOT want Anisimov to be playing against Crosby, Giroux, Ovie, etc every game as his production will decrease because he will be in the defensive zone for most of his shifts.
That won't be much of a problem, since Tortorella likes to match up one of his top 2 lines against the opponents best players anyway. Boyle didn't get the hardest matchups last year amongst Rangers centers. Brad Richards did. Derek Stepan was second.

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07-12-2012, 09:54 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
PLD the bolded part is completely inaccurate, AGAIN!

Anisimov has never scored 20 or more goals! His career high for points is 44 a gigantic difference of 9 points over Boyle's 35 while playing top 6 minutes on our best line in 2010-11 with Callahan and the points leader that year Dubinsky. Boyle does not play with that caliber of linemates and probably never will. Your argument is fruitless, Anisimov is an offensive minded player first and you want him to play with grinders and less skilled players centering the third line! That is not going to help his game, when are you going to get that?

Also Torts does not consistently roll 4 lines, I do NOT want Anisimov to be playing against Crosby, Giroux, Ovie, etc every game as his production will decrease because he will be in the defensive zone for most of his shifts.

I know what you are trying to say but the facts are:
1) We do not have the depth and skill to do what you want (3rd line that can score)
2) We do not have a coach that rolls all 4 lines consistently
3) Anisimov is not the defensive player you claim him to be or Boyle would have been moved to the wing over him

The only thing I will concede is Anisimov has better hands and better wheels than Boyle, but this is the NHL where players earn minutes and money based on their production, not their potential.
How is 36 points for Anisimov this past year not better than 35 points for Boyle the season before?

That's right only goals count. Anisimov is not a goal scorer, but on AVERAGE in the last 3 years he has posted better goal totals than Boyle.

Here's the difference as it relates ot centers, much in the same way as a PG in the NBA, you NEED to be able to get your teammates involved in scoring and that's where AA is the far superior player.

Boyle doesn't play with more talente dplayers such as Dubi and Cally because he doesn't have the chops to keep up. He would be a massive drag on both players.

To your last comment in bold.

AA produces therefore he gets paid more and is played with better players.

Seems like a simple enough of a concept for you to come up with, it would be nice if you followed your own logic.

AA was moved to wing over Boyle because he is clearly better suited for the role, ie more offensivly capable ot handling the situation.

If we do Nada for the rest of the year, you think having Boyle center Dubi and Hagelin is a better option than AA? If you answer yes, then it's clear that you don't see a problem with this teams offensive woes. Because Boyle in that role will continue on his 10 goals (maybe) and 10+ assists maybe.

the Rangers scoring problem last year was as much to do (if not more) with getting nothing in terms of production from the 3rd and 4th lines.

Boyle doesn't fix that, when you YOU GOING TO GET THAT.

A 3rd line of Dubi - AA - Hagelin is both dangerous offensively AND solid defensively because even if I condcede that AA is not a good defender (which I am not doing) he's still flanked by solid contributors at both ends of the ice.

The drop off is MARGINAL at best.

We STILL need a top 6 LW but the rest of top 6 would be set with Richards, Gaborik, Stepan, Callahan and Kreider.

We vastly improve the 3rd line AND THE 4TH LINE.

Personally, I would prefer to keep our assets, sign Semin and go to war as is.

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07-12-2012, 10:15 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
How is 36 points for Anisimov this past year not better than 35 points for Boyle the season before?

That's right only goals count. Anisimov is not a goal scorer, but on AVERAGE in the last 3 years he has posted better goal totals than Boyle.

Here's the difference as it relates ot centers, much in the same way as a PG in the NBA, you NEED to be able to get your teammates involved in scoring and that's where AA is the far superior player.

Boyle doesn't play with more talente dplayers such as Dubi and Cally because he doesn't have the chops to keep up. He would be a massive drag on both players.

To your last comment in bold.

AA produces therefore he gets paid more and is played with better players.

Seems like a simple enough of a concept for you to come up with, it would be nice if you followed your own logic.

AA was moved to wing over Boyle because he is clearly better suited for the role, ie more offensivly capable ot handling the situation.

If we do Nada for the rest of the year, you think having Boyle center Dubi and Hagelin is a better option than AA? If you answer yes, then it's clear that you don't see a problem with this teams offensive woes. Because Boyle in that role will continue on his 10 goals (maybe) and 10+ assists maybe.

the Rangers scoring problem last year was as much to do (if not more) with getting nothing in terms of production from the 3rd and 4th lines.

Boyle doesn't fix that, when you YOU GOING TO GET THAT.

A 3rd line of Dubi - AA - Hagelin is both dangerous offensively AND solid defensively because even if I condcede that AA is not a good defender (which I am not doing) he's still flanked by solid contributors at both ends of the ice.

The drop off is MARGINAL at best.

We STILL need a top 6 LW but the rest of top 6 would be set with Richards, Gaborik, Stepan, Callahan and Kreider.

We vastly improve the 3rd line AND THE 4TH LINE.

Personally, I would prefer to keep our assets, sign Semin and go to war as is.
You stated Anisimov posted better numbers than Boyle's career high. That is not correct, Anisimov has posted higher Assists and point totals, but he has NOT posted more goals. So for all the offensive talent he has it is not translating to goals. You need to clarify your statements because stating he posted better numbers comes off as meaning in each category (goals, assist, points) which is not true.

Now Anisimov is not a goal scorer? For such a playmaker his career high of 26 assists and then just 20 this past season playing with Stepan and gaborik for most of the season makes little sense. Richards and Stepan are playmakers... Anisimov is not.

For the statement I bolded, yes I completely agree and you are the one who wants to put him on a 3rd line with Dubinsky (who scored a huge 10 goals last season) and Hagelin (who had 14) yet you think his production will increase? He played with Stepan (17) and Gaborik (41) goals so by playing him in a more defensive minded role and with wingers who don't score as much his numbers will improve? Surely you have to kidding me?!?!?

You nailed one thing though, Anisimov was shifted to wing because he is better suited for that role, he has more offensive talent which would be wasted playing with 3rd line caliber linemates in a primarily defensive minded role where he would have less freedom because he would have more defensive responsibilities.

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07-12-2012, 11:15 AM
  #384
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Artie had 19 points at the 30 game mark--17 the rest of the way. His decline just about coincided with his run in with the Lightning--which was the Rangers 25th game of the year. For the first half of the season he played mostly with Stepan and Gaborik. Then he got pulled. After that he seemed to lose some confidence and had some long droughts.

The thing with Artie is as a center--he's not really a playmaker--more of a shoot first guy and as either a center or winger he hasn't proven himself to be much of a goal scorer. He has obvious talent but only a partial toolbox. He is good defensively--not extraordinarily good--a good pk'er. He seems timid to me at times--not overly physical and it strikes me he takes things to heart and can get down on himself.

If I'm comparing him to Boyle--Brian fits into roles better. It's easier because I think less is expected of him offensively. But he's better defensively- especially on the pk--where he is more of a go to guy, better on draws. He hits a lot more even if he doesn't hit really hard--and he's more of a drag on other teams just because of his size and strength. He's worse than Artie when it comes to making plays though--almost always ****s up his passes when there's good opportunities like on odd man rushes. Torts has more confidence in Boyle even if he is less talented.

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07-12-2012, 11:23 AM
  #385
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Artie is a better positional defender than Boyle, but he has an even bigger issue with using his size and being physical than Boyle does, and neither of them do nearly enough of that. Boyle also has better balance on his skates at this point. But I think Anisimov reads plays better, anticipates better, and uses his stick more effectively. He's obviously more talented offensively, but at this point, hasn't shown nearly enough offense, or nearly enough consistency offensively, to expect him to be a top six player.

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07-12-2012, 11:29 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
You stated Anisimov posted better numbers than Boyle's career high. That is not correct, Anisimov has posted higher Assists and point totals, but he has NOT posted more goals. So for all the offensive talent he has it is not translating to goals. You need to clarify your statements because stating he posted better numbers comes off as meaning in each category (goals, assist, points) which is not true.

Now Anisimov is not a goal scorer? For such a playmaker his career high of 26 assists and then just 20 this past season playing with Stepan and gaborik for most of the season makes little sense. Richards and Stepan are playmakers... Anisimov is not.

For the statement I bolded, yes I completely agree and you are the one who wants to put him on a 3rd line with Dubinsky (who scored a huge 10 goals last season) and Hagelin (who had 14) yet you think his production will increase? He played with Stepan (17) and Gaborik (41) goals so by playing him in a more defensive minded role and with wingers who don't score as much his numbers will improve? Surely you have to kidding me?!?!?

You nailed one thing though, Anisimov was shifted to wing because he is better suited for that role, he has more offensive talent which would be wasted playing with 3rd line caliber linemates in a primarily defensive minded role where he would have less freedom because he would have more defensive responsibilities.
So, you think that Dubinsky is going to stay at 10 goals and that Hagelin is not going to get better?

Dubi will get back to his 20/20 NORMS and Hagelin with a full season will also be at 20/20 AA playing with both should be at his normal 15+ goals and I would expect 25-30 assists while playing a solid defensive game.

You seem to eb alot like some CLB fans tha think the previous 4 years were the anomoly and that Last year is what we can expect from Dubi every year. Additionally. Hagelin played 64 games as a rookie and posted 38 points. I expect those numbers to get better with seasoning.

I know one thing is for certain, neither Dubi or Hagelin get to those 20/20 numbers with Byole as their center.

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07-12-2012, 12:16 PM
  #387
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So, you think that Dubinsky is going to stay at 10 goals and that Hagelin is not going to get better?

Dubi will get back to his 20/20 NORMS and Hagelin with a full season will also be at 20/20 AA playing with both should be at his normal 15+ goals and I would expect 25-30 assists while playing a solid defensive game.

You seem to eb alot like some CLB fans tha think the previous 4 years were the anomoly and that Last year is what we can expect from Dubi every year. Additionally. Hagelin played 64 games as a rookie and posted 38 points. I expect those numbers to get better with seasoning.

I know one thing is for certain, neither Dubi or Hagelin get to those 20/20 numbers with Byole as their center.
Dubinsky had no confidence at all this season, I certainly hope he can return to at least 20/20 numbers, but I am certainly not going to gamble on it. He was forcing way too many plays and put way too much pressure on himself. Hopefully with 3rd line icetime and not being the go to guy his numbers will improve, but is is very plausible they won't with reduced minutes and playing on a line w/ Boyle and Asham/Pyatt.

Hagelin will not be on the third line to start the season, when will you accept that? Gaborik is out, either Hagelin or Dubi moves up, who do you think Torts will play on the second line? I would also expect Hagelin's numbers to increase, but not by taking him away from Brad Richards and playing him with Anisimov/Brian Boyle and Brandon Dubinsky. Plus there is always the Sophomore slump we may have to deal with.

Both Dubi and Hagelin probably don't get 20/20 with Anisimov as their center because he is NOT a playmaker.


Last edited by Janerixon: 07-12-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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07-12-2012, 12:32 PM
  #388
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Dubinsky had no confidence at all this season, I certainly hope he can return to at least 20/20 numbers, but I am certainly not going to gamble on it. He was forcing way too many plays and put way too much pressure on himself. Hopefully with 3rd line icetime and not being the go to guy his numbers will improve, but is is very plausible they won't with reduced minutes and playing on a line w/ Boyle and Asham/Pyatt.

Hagelin will not be on the third line to start the season, when will you accept that? Gaborik is out, either Hagelin or Dubi moves up, who do you think Torts will play on the second line? I would also expect Hagelin's numbers to increase, but not by taking him away from Brad Richards and playing him with Anisimov/Brian Boyle and Brandon Dubinsky. Plus there is always the Sophomore slump we may have to deal with.

Both Dubi and Hagelin probably don't get 20/20 with Anisimov as their center because he is NOT a playmaker.
WHAT?

Sorry, but if AA is anything he's mor eof a playmaker than he is a goal scorer.

He has hands and vision to get guys pucks

Is he on the same level as Stepan? No, but he's more of a playmaking center than a goal scoring center.

And regarding Hagelin, it didn't matter what line they put the kid on. He made that line go. I do agree, with Gabby out and no other moves made, Hags is playing top 6, however, when Gabby is back, the ability to play well both defensively and offensively makes he a great 3rd line option.

Lets say we address our top 6 lw in Semin, then we get Gabby back.

Kreider, Semin, Gaborik callahan.

Who is Hags displacing? Guess where Hags is playing?

3rd line RW next Dubi on the LW and AA in the middle.

UNTIL gabby gets back assuming we do nothing, Hags plays a top 6 role and Boyle gets shifted to RW.

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07-12-2012, 01:29 PM
  #389
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WHAT?

Sorry, but if AA is anything he's mor eof a playmaker than he is a goal scorer.

He has hands and vision to get guys pucks

Is he on the same level as Stepan? No, but he's more of a playmaking center than a goal scoring center.

And regarding Hagelin, it didn't matter what line they put the kid on. He made that line go. I do agree, with Gabby out and no other moves made, Hags is playing top 6, however, when Gabby is back, the ability to play well both defensively and offensively makes he a great 3rd line option.

Lets say we address our top 6 lw in Semin, then we get Gabby back.

Kreider, Semin, Gaborik callahan.

Who is Hags displacing? Guess where Hags is playing?

3rd line RW next Dubi on the LW and AA in the middle.

UNTIL gabby gets back assuming we do nothing, Hags plays a top 6 role and Boyle gets shifted to RW.
For starters I disagree, Anisimov is NOT a playmaker. Where are these hands and vision you speak of? he is a good passer, not great, but good. He is good at going up the wing and creating a play down low, usually for himself. Rarely is he making a dish pass that makes me take notice. He is more of a playmaker than Boyle, but that is like saying Boyle is a better fighter than Marc Staal, it's irrelevant. Richards and Stepan are playmakers, Anisimov is not.

Now to the craziest thing you said... SEMIN? He wants a multi-year deal, he will not sign here. He is not a Torts type of player. He is ceratinly a Sather signing, but he will be in the doghouse faster than you can say Zdeno Ciger. I would be shocked and I will eat crow publically apologizing if we sign Semin, thats how unlikely it is. That will not happen.

Until we get another top forward stop talking about Hagelin on the third line, cause it is not a forgone conclusion.

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07-25-2012, 07:43 PM
  #390
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excuse the crazy bump but I was pining "if we only signed Konopka over Halpern" (would be interesting to learn if Sather did attempt to sign him) and came upon a Halpern article that had the following blurb.

Quote:
In New York, hes reunited with John Tortorella, who coached him for 19 games with the Tampa Bay Lightning in 2008. In those 19 games, Halpern had 10 goals and eight assists.
i'm going to be totally realistic here. he was getting 18:12 of ice time in those games. not happening here. we're all expecting 4th line minutes and 4th line numbers, but as far as playing in a Torts system and environment, +his decent faceoff skills, I feel a bit better about it. It's a relatively safe signing. Not that many would complain about it. He's gotta be an improvement over Mitchell and if he can establish trust w/ Torts, we'll see Torts rolling 4 lines more (he WILL do this if he feels confident that his 4th line has the jam to actually contribute towards the outcome of a game). I just hope he isn't too slow of a skater. aaaaaand back to Nash Madness.

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