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Bettman must be fired

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01-08-2005, 05:42 PM
  #1
OlliMackBjugStud
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Bettman must be fired

Look, if the league is in as bad a shape as he says it is, then why hasnt he been fired for leading the league into this mess ?

If hte league is so bad that euthanizing it is to the only way to save it, why hasnt he been fired ?

so what is it ? is the league is terrible shape or should he keep his job ?

if i ran a company into the ground that has had this much revenue growth, i would be fired. and so would just about any other corporate leader.

dr

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01-08-2005, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
Look, if the league is in as bad a shape as he says it is, then why hasnt he been fired for leading the league into this mess ?

If hte league is so bad that euthanizing it is to the only way to save it, why hasnt he been fired ?

so what is it ? is the league is terrible shape or should he keep his job ?

if i ran a company into the ground that has had this much revenue growth, i would be fired. and so would just about any other corporate leader.

dr
The NHL blames the the NHLPA's unwillingness to renegotiate the CBA for its financial predicament:
"Let's be clear on where the responsibility lies for where we find ourselves today: it lies exclusively at the feet of union leadership who, despite numerous and repeated approaches by the league over many years, utterly ignored and, in some cases, knowingly exacerbated the financial distress the league was experiencing," Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, told The Canadian Press via e-mail from New York.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...NStory/Sports/

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01-08-2005, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjaggers
The NHL blames the the NHLPA's unwillingness to renegotiate the CBA for its financial predicament:
"Let's be clear on where the responsibility lies for where we find ourselves today: it lies exclusively at the feet of union leadership who, despite numerous and repeated approaches by the league over many years, utterly ignored and, in some cases, knowingly exacerbated the financial distress the league was experiencing," Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, told The Canadian Press via e-mail from New York.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...NStory/Sports/
and who here buys this financial situation is NOT the fault of the owners ?

so, anyhow, if Bettman negotiated such a crappy deal, or allowed the league to become in such a mess that they must euthanize it, either way, he should take the sword.

dr

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01-08-2005, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
and who here buys this financial situation is NOT the fault of the owners ?

so, anyhow, if Bettman negotiated such a crappy deal, or allowed the league to become in such a mess that they must euthanize it, either way, he should take the sword.

dr
There's lots to criticize Gary about, but the 1994 deal isn't one of them. The owners cracked on that one and left him holding the bag. He did the best he could without a unified ownership.
And if we're talking about Bettman taking the sword, Goodenow should be right behind him in the hari kari line. The people he's paid well to represent are about to lose a combined $1.5 billion because is his vast misjudgment of owner resolve and refusal to consider anything approaching cost certainty. That's $1.5 billion those players will never see again. Making matters worse, there's nothing to make it seem the players are likely to get a better deal in September than the one they can get now. Bravo, Bob.

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01-08-2005, 06:48 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
. The people he's paid well to represent are about to lose a combined $1.5 billion because is his vast misjudgment of owner resolve and refusal to consider anything approaching cost certainty. That's $1.5 billion those players will never see again. Making matters worse, there's nothing to make it seem the players are likely to get a better deal in September than the one they can get now. Bravo, Bob.
1.3 billion to be more accurate.

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01-08-2005, 06:49 PM
  #6
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I've said it before, I wish Bettman would make his resignation a bargining chip with the PA.

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01-08-2005, 07:08 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
There's lots to criticize Gary about, but the 1994 deal isn't one of them. The owners cracked on that one and left him holding the bag. He did the best he could without a unified ownership.
And if we're talking about Bettman taking the sword, Goodenow should be right behind him in the hari kari line. The people he's paid well to represent are about to lose a combined $1.5 billion because is his vast misjudgment of owner resolve and refusal to consider anything approaching cost certainty. That's $1.5 billion those players will never see again. Making matters worse, there's nothing to make it seem the players are likely to get a better deal in September than the one they can get now. Bravo, Bob.
Exactly. I laugh at these NHLPA apologists & idiot players who natter on about Bettman been at fault for the state of the game, & cite the 94 CBA .Firstly, if these clowns had any clue what happened they would know that it was not Betmens wish that that abomination be ratified, but a few wealthy owners somehow convinced the rest of the owners, & Betmen weas not in favor of that agreement.
Secondly, it seems to me every time the apologists cite the horrible deal the owners made & pin it on Bettman, they implicitly acknowledge that there is a huge structural problem, something they will not openly acknowledge.
Lastly, do they actually believe Bettman is the problem & if he is gone, the problems suddenly go away. If so, the apologists are absolutly out to lunch.
And btw DR, Bettman cannot control what individual owners do once the CBA is ratified . He cannot stop owners from signing players to idiotic contracts which is largely the cause of the current problems. To do so would be collusion.

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01-08-2005, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
1.3 billion to be more accurate.
Whatever. A writer for your hometown newspaper today pegged it at $1.5 billion.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_yl...ight&type=lgns

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01-08-2005, 08:08 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
Exactly. I laugh at these NHLPA apologists & idiot players who natter on about Bettman been at fault for the state of the game, & cite the 94 CBA .Firstly, if these clowns had any clue what happened they would know that it was not Betmens wish that that abomination be ratified, but a few wealthy owners somehow convinced the rest of the owners, & Betmen weas not in favor of that agreement.
Secondly, it seems to me every time the apologists cite the horrible deal the owners made & pin it on Bettman, they implicitly acknowledge that there is a huge structural problem, something they will not openly acknowledge.
Lastly, do they actually believe Bettman is the problem & if he is gone, the problems suddenly go away. If so, the apologists are absolutly out to lunch.
And btw DR, Bettman cannot control what individual owners do once the CBA is ratified . He cannot stop owners from signing players to idiotic contracts which is largely the cause of the current problems. To do so would be collusion.
I wouldn't blame him for the deal in 94 but he did renew this CBA not once but twice. And Bettman knew when he renewed that the league was in trouble. But he found ways to keep most of these owners going by expanding the league (expansion fees gave about $10 mil per team) which many people feel has caused the quality of the league to dimish. It was Bettman that made all kinds of changes to the rules that the league is now trying to correct. I think Bettman regardless of the result of the lockout has not been that good for the game of hockey and should be fired.

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01-08-2005, 08:12 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
There's lots to criticize Gary about, but the 1994 deal isn't one of them. The owners cracked on that one and left him holding the bag. He did the best he could without a unified ownership.
And if we're talking about Bettman taking the sword, Goodenow should be right behind him in the hari kari line. The people he's paid well to represent are about to lose a combined $1.5 billion because is his vast misjudgment of owner resolve and refusal to consider anything approaching cost certainty. That's $1.5 billion those players will never see again. Making matters worse, there's nothing to make it seem the players are likely to get a better deal in September than the one they can get now. Bravo, Bob.
sweet, win-win for hockey and its fans. I don't care for either of these people and if both could get the axe because of this mess, then going without hockey for awhile might be worth it.

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01-08-2005, 08:34 PM
  #11
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Yes firing Gary Bettman will some how make the economic problems go away. The players are the problem, and once they realize Bob Goodenow is gonna loose them more money then they will be able to get back, Bob will be the one fired not Bettman. If it wasnt for him the players would still be stuck with 950K average salary right now.

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01-08-2005, 08:36 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Flames Go
Yes firing Gary Bettman will some how make the economic problems go away. The players are the problem, and once they realize Bob Goodenow is gonna loose them more money then they will be able to get back, Bob will be the one fired not Bettman. If it wasnt for him the players would still be stuck with 950K average salary right now.

if I see one more post where someone spells "lose" as "loose" I'm gonna scream.

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01-08-2005, 09:06 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
Whatever. A writer for your hometown newspaper today pegged it at $1.5 billion.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_yl...ight&type=lgns
Good for him. He's wrong. Poo-poo the difference all you want, but that difference just so happens to be extremely close to what the league claims it lost last year.

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01-08-2005, 09:13 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn
I wouldn't blame him for the deal in 94 but he did renew this CBA not once but twice. And Bettman knew when he renewed that the league was in trouble. But he found ways to keep most of these owners going by expanding the league (expansion fees gave about $10 mil per team) which many people feel has caused the quality of the league to dimish. It was Bettman that made all kinds of changes to the rules that the league is now trying to correct. I think Bettman regardless of the result of the lockout has not been that good for the game of hockey and should be fired.

Two representatives of the NHLPA shall be invited to attend
and to participate in all meetings of the General Managers
Committee in which playing rule changes are addressed.


http://www.nhlfa.com/CBA/cba_agreement22.asp

How does Bettman get so powerful that he can impose rule changes over the General Managers Committe? It doesn't give a lot of information here, but doesn't this committe decide how the rules should be changed, and then the changes have to be voted on by all the GM's to become effective?

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01-08-2005, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
1.3 billion to be more accurate.

Well that makes it so much better.

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01-08-2005, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Good for him. He's wrong. Poo-poo the difference all you want, but that difference just so happens to be extremely close to what the league claims it lost last year.
The difference is immaterial to the PA members. Gee Bob, you've cost us 1.3 Billion we'll never get back fighting a battle we can't possibly win, but at least it isn't 1.5 B like some reporter wrote. YAYYYYYYY!!!!! Drinks all around.

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01-09-2005, 01:26 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Good for him. He's wrong. Poo-poo the difference all you want, but that difference just so happens to be extremely close to what the league claims it lost last year.
No, he's not wrong really, it's just the old salary/benefits stuff again.

The players get 75% in salary and benefits. Salaries I believe are $1.3, benefits like per diems, pension donations, etc make up the rest.

He did make the mistake of just calling it salary however.

And of course, that was last year. With so many players unsigned, we don't actually know what the actual number for salary would have been this year. With the usual raises, it may just be $1.5 billion.

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01-09-2005, 06:04 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
Secondly, it seems to me every time the apologists cite the horrible deal the owners made & pin it on Bettman, they implicitly acknowledge that there is a huge structural problem, something they will not openly acknowledge.
That's an excellent point. The PA and its backers can't have their cake and eat it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reilly311
if I see one more post where someone spells "lose" as "loose" I'm gonna scream.
If I see one more person who doesn't know that you capitalize the first word of every sentence then I'm going to scream.

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01-09-2005, 08:08 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
The difference is immaterial to the PA members. Gee Bob, you've cost us 1.3 Billion we'll never get back fighting a battle we can't possibly win, but at least it isn't 1.5 B like some reporter wrote. YAYYYYYYY!!!!! Drinks all around.
Bob thinks he's re-fighting the 1994 battle, his moment of glory.

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01-09-2005, 10:00 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiped Krusader
That's an excellent point. The PA and its backers can't have their cake and eat it too.
its Bettman who claims the deal is no good. i am simply sayng, if its as bad as he says it is, he should pay the price for that.

dr

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01-09-2005, 10:05 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
its Bettman who claims the deal is no good. i am simply sayng, if its as bad as he says it is, he should pay the price for that.

dr
You continue to miss the point. The '94 deal wasn't Bettman's deal. It was the one foisted upon him by the owners that gave way to the union. You're demanding he be held responsible for a deal which he didn't want. Do you also blame Democratic voters every time Bush does something dumb?
Again, there's a lot to which one can be critical of Bettman. Over expansion? Sure. Bad TV deal? Absolutely. Inability to get a deal this time without a long lockout? Sure.
But the 1994 CBA? Nope.


Last edited by CarlRacki: 01-09-2005 at 10:14 AM.
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01-09-2005, 10:40 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
You continue to miss the point. The '94 deal wasn't Bettman's deal. It was the one foisted upon him by the owners that gave way to the union. You're demanding he be held responsible for a deal which he didn't want. Do you also blame Democratic voters every time Bush does something dumb?
Again, there's a lot to which one can be critical of Bettman. Over expansion? Sure. Bad TV deal? Absolutely. Inability to get a deal this time without a long lockout? Sure.
But the 1994 CBA? Nope.
And why did the owners cave to the players in '94 in many peoples oppinion? Because they wanted hockey up and going to showcase itself for the first time at the Olympics...The NHLPA had them over a barrel without much of a bargaining stance and Bob knew that and knew the financial problems that would occur if that system was allowed to continue as well but did nothing to resolve it. This time, Bob has it in his mind that the NHL needs them just as bad-But with attendance falling, popularity mediocre at best, and teams citing bankruptcy-Well that's just not the case this time around and it's about time Bob realized where he stands...

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01-09-2005, 11:00 AM
  #23
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and lets not forget why the owners had to extend this CBA back 5 years ago

baseball had placed a bad taste in everyones mouth when it came to lockouts/strikes

the owners hands were forced because they would not have the support they now have....right now 80% are behind the owners and they will return when the league comes back.....that is a powerful stance

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01-09-2005, 11:02 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
its Bettman who claims the deal is no good. i am simply sayng, if its as bad as he says it is, he should pay the price for that.

dr
Can you not understand. He was against the deal. He take's his instructions from the owners. Do you also think the mail boy from 94 should be canned & if so, what would that accomplish in the present dispute.
Ands besides which, what does that have anything to do with whats right at this time?

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01-09-2005, 11:03 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
Ands besides which, what does that have anything to do with whats right at this time?
Not a damn thing, but it sure sounds good to place the blame on someone!

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