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Old
07-11-2012, 03:42 PM
  #801
M Gaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Mixed signals pal. Howsam would want him because he's on an entry level contract and not necessarily because he's this wonderful talent who's going to immediately upgrade Colombus's roster.
I'll repeat it, unless Stepan improves his skating, strength and stamina dramatically, his production won't be all that much better than it was last year!
All those things will improve with time, so have some patience. He's not gonna turn into a 70 pt player overnight.

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07-11-2012, 03:42 PM
  #802
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Wolski is lazy as dog **** on a hot Texas afternoon. He played a role in the Cats clinching the division and was benched...again...

Fool me twice? How about thrice?

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07-11-2012, 03:43 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
Why are people talking as if Rick Nash is declining? I guess Brad Richards is on a steep decline since his point totals didn't match up last season.
The only evidence fans can go by are statistics and his numbers are indicative of a player who is declining.

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07-11-2012, 03:44 PM
  #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I don't have a problem moving Stepan value wise. But, in terms of organizational depth, its essentially suicide.

I can imagine, in this market, that acquiring a second line center men is probably almost just as hard as acquiring a Nash or a Ryan.
This. Furthermore the vast majority (if not all) of us advocating adding Nash are NOT advocating moving Stepan.

But the "60 point player" argument is getting old. Nash may not have elite numbers but he has the ability to take over games when he is on. He is the "Hank" of Columbus. When he is on, they win. Obviously Hank is better and goalies can win games on their own more easily.

Exhibit A (first regulation win in San Jose in FRANCHISE HISTORY in 2010, Nash Hat Trick, 3-0):


Exhibit B (hatty in 3-2 OT win vs. Detroit):


A more talented supporting cast is one reason why I think even at 28 he has room to grow, but a WINNING CULTURE and the chance to make noise in the playoffs will be a far bigger reason IMO. Losing for that many years takes a toll on you mentally no matter how tough you are. Was he part of the problem? Sure, you can argue that. But look at Columbus' team performance. In the last five years their team defense was ranked in the bottom 5 of the league 3 times. Look at how AWFUL Steve Mason's stats are. Offensively they were not exactly great, but the two years their defense improved to crack the top 10 of the league (including 2009 their only playoff appearance) Nash scored 69 and 79 points because he was actually MOTIVATED TO DO SO.

Finally he may not have Gabby's release or speed but he is so much more well-rounded to the point where I believe he will be more effective in tightly checked games.

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07-11-2012, 03:45 PM
  #805
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His stats have declined 3 straight seasons. His effort is there. Results, not so much

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07-11-2012, 03:45 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
So Nash will put up 70 points for 7.8 million dollars and Stepan can put up 50-60 points for $800,000. You don't see how that's a bad deal for us?

10 to possibly 20 more points per season for 7 million dollars seem worth it to you?

Would you give a 20 point player 7 million dollars a year for 6 years?
Obviously i think he will score then 70 points. And hes an impact player.

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07-11-2012, 03:47 PM
  #807
Burlington Bomb 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
The only evidence fans can go by are statistics and his numbers are indicative of a player who is declining.
They should actually watch players before saying anything. Nash is declining just as much as Pat Kane and Alex Ovechkin.

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07-11-2012, 03:48 PM
  #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
His stats have declined 3 straight seasons. His effort is there. Results, not so much
Playing on the 30th ranked team in the NHL...

He still manages to score 30 goals. He would get 20 more points playing with Richards.

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07-11-2012, 03:48 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
The only evidence fans can go by are statistics and his numbers are indicative of a player who is declining.
Yea by fans who just look at a score sheet and dont watch the player. So their opinion is pretty pointless.

The same could be also be said for the pro nash side, if anyone thinks stepan has peaked out then they are a lost cause as well.

Anyone who thinks Nash at 28 is on his decline is a lost cause. Unless of course injuries were hitting him now but there isnt.

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07-11-2012, 03:49 PM
  #810
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Wolski to the Caps for 600K , wow thats cheap. Sather got a 3rd and Vernance for the minors. Not bad for a guy it seems teams didnt want to touch

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07-11-2012, 03:50 PM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
The only evidence fans can go by are statistics and his numbers are indicative of a player who is declining.
That's ********. There are so many variables that go into NHL production and statistics, way more than in a sport like Baseball for example.

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07-11-2012, 03:54 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
Playing on the 30th ranked team in the NHL...

He still manages to score 30 goals. He would get 20 more points playing with Richards.
And his Richard season? Where did the BJ's rank then?

Oh I get it. Not only is he overpaid and underachiving, but he's also high maintenance too?

Failed logic. Just like Jagr would score 40 with Gomez? Remember those predictions?

30 for Nash in 2012 was one of his worst seasons. He scored 40 with Malhotra as his center in 2009.

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07-11-2012, 03:58 PM
  #813
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If I was Nash I would be growing impatient and saying something. I respect his silence during all this crap, God knows I'd be pissed if I was him.

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07-11-2012, 03:59 PM
  #814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I don't have a problem moving Stepan value wise. But, in terms of organizational depth, its essentially suicide.

I can imagine, in this market, that acquiring a second line center men is probably almost just as hard as acquiring a Nash or a Ryan.
Yes, but if they are willing to move Stepan, I think it is very likely that the organization sees the next 1-5 years as a window of opportunity for the big prize and probably are willing to trade the assets (picks, most likely) to aquire one. Or/and are very high on Miller for organizational depth. I'm reaching here, but a deal like that might be what is holding up a Nash/Ryan move.

I'm sure there are teams dangling serviceble veteran centermen, and I'm sure you can find examples on such transactions being made at the price of a couple picks. Derek Roy was traded for Ott and Pardy recently. 50 point centers like Jokinen, Peverley, Antropov, Fisher has been moved before (just namedropping).

With that said, the point I was trying to make is that I'm not at all concerned that Sather moves Stepan without dealing for another 50pt C.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:00 PM
  #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
And his Richard season? Where did the BJ's rank then?

Oh I get it. Not only is he overpaid and underachiving, but he's also high maintenance too?

Failed logic. Just like Jagr would score 40 with Gomez? Remember those predictions?

30 for Nash in 2012 was one of his worst seasons. He scored 40 with Malhotra as his center in 2009.
Nash has international success with Richards. All you can do is look at stats. Tell me how he is exactly declining. Without saying his stats are. How is he high maintenance? Because he was playing with dog **** all year?

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07-11-2012, 04:01 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Riverdale View Post
If I was Nash I would be growing impatient and saying something. I respect his silence during all this crap, God knows I'd be pissed if I was him.
Id love for him to come out and tell the media he will refuse to report to camp if he is not moved.

That will really get things moving

And he should after Howsen through him under the bus to the media/fans after the deadline last season.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:02 PM
  #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
They should actually watch players before saying anything. Nash is declining just as much as Pat Kane and Alex Ovechkin.
I am fairly certain as a Rangers fan, you do not watch Nash all that much on a day to day basis. But Tim, I won't call you liar. You may. Do you have the stats to back that up? No one can say for sure what Nash is going to be. However, I hope this posts correctly (formatting) I did some quick research on Nash. I am not going to force feed you what the media is trying to do. I want people to draw their own conclusion. I see a player that is perceived as an all star or elite but isn't.

I'll use total points as the barometer here and start with 2007-08.

year age GP G A PTS League Rank
07-08 23 80 38 31 69 40th
08-09 24 78 40 39 79 18th
09-10 25 76 33 34 67 37th
10-11 26 75 32 34 66 31st
11-12 27 82 30 29 59 59th


Last 5 seasons
GP G A PTS Rank
391 173 167 340 22nd

Last 4 seasons
GP G A PTS Rank
311 135 136 271 22nd

Last 3 seasons
GP G A PTS Rank
233 95 97 192 33rd

Last 2 seasons
GP G A PTS Rank
157 62 63 125 35th

***Sorry for the formatting.

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07-11-2012, 04:02 PM
  #818
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can anyone else see a 3 way trade coming?

hey i was just thinking, since CBJ need offense and the rangers really only have D depth to give up. is there a team that is in need of D help that has forwards to give up? i could see the rangers trading D + dubi ++ for good offensive prospects or something and then trying to get nash. or the question is, if they can get offense somewhere else should they do that instead of nash?? im not sure. what do you guys think?

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07-11-2012, 04:05 PM
  #819
drewcon40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
Nash has international success with Richards. All you can do is look at stats. Tell me how he is exactly declining. Without saying his stats are. How is he high maintenance? Because he was playing with dog **** all year?
International play is different and a different type of competition. NHL statistics. You are right, let's look at the stats.

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07-11-2012, 04:05 PM
  #820
M Gaz
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No, you're the only one.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:06 PM
  #821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
Nash has international success with Richards. All you can do is look at stats. Tell me how he is exactly declining. Without saying his stats are. How is he high maintenance? Because he was playing with dog **** all year?
International tournaments mean jack **** to NHL hockey.

I guess we should re-sign Zuccarello folks. Maybe with a dash of Patrik Thorenson as well.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:06 PM
  #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
I am fairly certain as a Rangers fan, you do not watch Nash all that much on a day to day basis. But Tim, I won't call you liar. You may. Do you have the stats to back that up? No one can say for sure what Nash is going to be. However, I hope this posts correctly (formatting) I did some quick research on Nash. I am not going to force feed you what the media is trying to do. I want people to draw their own conclusion. I see a player that is perceived as an all star or elite but isn't.

I'll use total points as the barometer here and start with 2007-08.

year age GP G A PTS League Rank
07-08 23 80 38 31 69 40th
08-09 24 78 40 39 79 18th
09-10 25 76 33 34 67 37th
10-11 26 75 32 34 66 31st
11-12 27 82 30 29 59 59th


Last 5 seasons
GP G A PTS Rank
391 173 167 340 22nd

Last 4 seasons
GP G A PTS Rank
311 135 136 271 22nd

Last 3 seasons
GP G A PTS Rank
233 95 97 192 33rd

Last 2 seasons
GP G A PTS Rank
157 62 63 125 35th
I don't watch every game, but I watched around 10-15 Blue Jackets games this year. I do agree that Nash is not an elite player. I believe he is an elite scorer. 30 goals in 7 of the last 8 years. He's also top 5 in scoring since the lockout, no? I truly believe his stats are stunted due to a lack of assists. Can't really rack up points playing with Brassard, Prospal, Huselius, ect. I respect your opinion, but mine isn't going to change. Also you didn't explain anything but show stats.

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07-11-2012, 04:07 PM
  #823
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i am sure anything is possible but i don't ever recall many three way deals in the nhl and most deals like that occur in the MLB and NBA.

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07-11-2012, 04:07 PM
  #824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
I am fairly certain as a Rangers fan, you do not watch Nash all that much on a day to day basis. But Tim, I won't call you liar. You may. Do you have the stats to back that up? No one can say for sure what Nash is going to be. However, I hope this posts correctly (formatting) I did some quick research on Nash. I am not going to force feed you what the media is trying to do. I want people to draw their own conclusion. I see a player that is perceived as an all star or elite but isn't.
But all you are looking at are stats. The NHL is not a sport that can be fully (or even mostly) explained with statistical analysis.

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07-11-2012, 04:08 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
International tournaments mean jack **** to NHL hockey.

I guess we should re-sign Zuccarello folks. Maybe with a dash of Patrik Thorenson as well.
They mean jack ****? It's the only barometer we truly have of Rick Nash's success with other players. He's one of the best players on Canada in the past 15 years, and has won a Rocket Richard. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about and just go away.

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