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Old
07-11-2012, 04:09 PM
  #826
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
I don't watch every game, but I watched around 10-15 Blue Jackets games this year. I do agree that Nash is not an elite player. I believe he is an elite scorer. 30 goals in 7 of the last 8 years. He's also top 5 in scoring since the lockout, no? I truly believe his stats are stunted due to a lack of assists. Can't really rack up points playing with Brassard, Prospal, Huselius, ect. I respect your opinion, but mine isn't going to change.
You wouldnt want to add an elite scorer to the team?

How often do those come around?

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07-11-2012, 04:10 PM
  #827
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You wouldnt want to add an elite scorer to the team?

How often do those come around?
Huh? I'm one of the most pro-Nash people on here.

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07-11-2012, 04:10 PM
  #828
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Anyone saw Eklunds tweet? Rangers interested in adding Semin because they are frustrated about the Rick nash sweepstakes

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07-11-2012, 04:10 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
They mean jack ****? It's the only barometer we truly have of Rick Nash's success with other players. He's one of the best players on Canada in the past 15 years, and has won a Rocket Richard. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about and just go away.
Seriously. His argument is very flawed that i didnt even bother arguing against it.

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07-11-2012, 04:11 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
Huh? I'm one of the most pro-Nash people on here.
Sorry, just getting confused who is who , ignore that statement toward you.

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07-11-2012, 04:14 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
International tournaments mean jack **** to NHL hockey.

I guess we should re-sign Zuccarello folks. Maybe with a dash of Patrik Thorenson as well.
With Johnny Malkin centering that line

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07-11-2012, 04:17 PM
  #832
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If I was Nash I would be growing impatient and saying something. I respect his silence during all this crap, God knows I'd be pissed if I was him.
I'm not saying that I'm any authority on this, but an article that was linked on this thread talked about the fact that leadership was not a quality often discussed where Nash was concerned.

With guys like Morrow and Doan leadership is one of the first things brought up. Not with Nash.

It's been beaten to death. Heck, I've beaten it to death here. So again, how do you commit to pay a guy $7.8 Million a year for six years, give up solid roster players, prospects and high draft picks....have him maybe produce 60ish points, 30ish goals....and have a guy where leadership is a question mark to start with???

Color me ignorant or clueless. I just do not get the fascination with Rick Nash.

He was not living in some vacuum in Cbus. He was their franchise player. A guy with some pull, some influence in that organization.

We talk about him as being elite. Sorry, no. A guy in a similar situation, imo was Mario Lemieux. Look at the influence he's had on that franchise over the years. Elite players take control and make the very best out of a situation.

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07-11-2012, 04:18 PM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Mkhizgilov View Post
Anyone saw Eklunds tweet? Rangers interested in adding Semin because they are frustrated about the Rick nash sweepstakes
That is the polar opposite of what Cerny said this afternoon. According to him the Rangers have no interest in Semin.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:19 PM
  #834
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Wolski to Caps? Always roooted for the guy, but that'll stop now

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07-11-2012, 04:19 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
They mean jack ****? It's the only barometer we truly have of Rick Nash's success with other players. He's one of the best players on Canada in the past 15 years, and has won a Rocket Richard. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about and just go away.
Again, it's completely unrelated to compare international hockey with NHL hockey.

You have to factor in rink sizes, rule changes , level of competition, etc.

And Nash isn't one of the best players in Canadian hockey the past 15 yrs internationally. That's a joke. He had a couple of great WC tournaments, one where he was named tournament MVP despite being 2nd to Matthew Lombardi in points. If you want to look at great Canadian international players, look at guys like Heatley and Iginla. Nash was a 4th line player with Team Canada in the Olympics and was bumped off of Crosby's line. In short words, if Nash is considered a legendary international player, you might as well include a guy like Nik Kronwall who won a tournament MVP in 2006 WC. It's the media that hypes up Nash.

Jonathan Cheechoo also won a Richard, not really supporting your argument when Nash won his award pre-lockout.

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07-11-2012, 04:24 PM
  #836
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Originally Posted by CKL889 View Post
Seriously. His argument is very flawed that i didnt even bother arguing against it.
Please elaborate.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:28 PM
  #837
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His stats have declined 3 straight seasons. His effort is there. Results, not so much
I disagree somewhat. I followed Blue Jackets pretty closely when all of Strålman, Huselius and Påhlsson played there. Nash has been a favorite of mine since I watched him in the WC's many years ago.
IMO Nash has looked a bit disinterested this season, and given the team's poor start it's not unthinkable that was actually the case. They were out of the playoffs 15 games into the season. The effort, IMO, wasn't there all the time. There are a couple of reasons making me believe Rick Nash will be "rejuvenated" if he lands in NYR.

(No particular order)

1. Torts never accepts anyone taking a shift off. Nash obviously knows this and as is prepared to work his ass off. Given his overall talent, size and goalscoring ability I'm confident he will up his scoring but also be effective in the overall system as a winger. Winning battles, forcing turnovers, setting up teammates and so on.

2. The chance of winning. Never underestimate motivation to win.

3. Better linemates. No doubt about it, being set up by Richards will put you in better chances to score.

4. Less pressure. Not being the "face of the franchise" or the captain. I never thought of him as a guy enjoying being in the spotlight. In NY, he won't have to carry a whole franchise on his shoulder. Of course NY is more of a spotlight and the pressure is most definitely high, but Callahan is the captain, Henke is the King and players like Gaborik, Richards and Girardi (even McD and Staal) are considered star players. He won't have to deal with media all alone, let alone carry the franchise on his back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
Playing on the 30th ranked team in the NHL...

He still manages to score 30 goals. He would get 20 more points playing with Richards.
I agree. Above I stated a couple of more reasons to him being rejuvinated on Manhattan..

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07-11-2012, 04:30 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
But all you are looking at are stats. The NHL is not a sport that can be fully (or even mostly) explained with statistical analysis.
Hatrick/Tim - I'm just having a friendly debate. I never said "you don't know what you are talking about". I dont want to get into a p1$$ing match. I put those stats up there and let anyone draw their own opinion. Hatrick - there aren't any stats for chrmistry or intangibles. However, in my opinion, I don't see an elite player. I see someone who plays a ton of minutes on a poor Blue Jacket team. I can't quantify what his worth is to the Rangers. Based on the statistical evidence, his salary, the holes in the line up in a potential trade and the potential cap implications his contract carries, I'd rather pass. He is overpaid in my opinion. I think this a trade that will set us back.

I'm not flaming you guys for pro-Nash thoughts. You are well within your rights but at least try and debate without the nonsense.

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07-11-2012, 04:30 PM
  #839
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All told I think Nash would help this team and they don't need him to be a leader or franchise player or art Ross candidate, just score 30+ goals. The cap hit is high but can probably be managed

The sticking point is what Columbus wants in return for a player that everyone else in the league knows isn't worth what Howson wants

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07-11-2012, 04:35 PM
  #840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
Hatrick/Tim - I'm just having a friendly debate. I never said "you don't know what you are talking about". I dont want to get into a p1$$ing match. I put those stats up there and let anyone draw their own opinion. Hatrick - there aren't any stats for chrmistry or intangibles. However, in my opinion, I don't see an elite player. I see someone who plays a ton of minutes on a poor Blue Jacket team. I can't quantify what his worth is to the Rangers. Based on the statistical evidence, his salary, the holes in the line up in a potential trade and the potential cap implications his contract carries, I'd rather pass. He is overpaid in my opinion. I think this a trade that will set us back.

I'm not flaming you guys for pro-Nash thoughts. You are well within your rights but at least try and debate without the nonsense.
I apologize if my post came off as antagonistic. You are welcome to your opinion and I can't argue the stats. I made my point last page, and will agree to disagree. I guess we will just have to see what happens.

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07-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Raymones View Post
I disagree somewhat. I followed Blue Jackets pretty closely when all of Strålman, Huselius and Påhlsson played there. Nash has been a favorite of mine since I watched him in the WC's many years ago.
IMO Nash has looked a bit disinterested this season, and given the team's poor start it's not unthinkable that was actually the case. They were out of the playoffs 15 games into the season. The effort, IMO, wasn't there all the time. There are a couple of reasons making me believe Rick Nash will be "rejuvenated" if he lands in NYR.

(No particular order)

1. Torts never accepts anyone taking a shift off. Nash obviously knows this and as is prepared to work his ass off. Given his overall talent, size and goalscoring ability I'm confident he will up his scoring but also be effective in the overall system as a winger. Winning battles, forcing turnovers, setting up teammates and so on.

2. The chance of winning. Never underestimate motivation to win.

3. Better linemates. No doubt about it, being set up by Richards will put you in better chances to score.

4. Less pressure. Not being the "face of the franchise" or the captain. I never thought of him as a guy enjoying being in the spotlight. In NY, he won't have to carry a whole franchise on his shoulder. Of course NY is more of a spotlight and the pressure is most definitely high, but Callahan is the captain, Henke is the King and players like Gaborik, Richards and Girardi (even McD and Staal) are considered star players. He won't have to deal with media all alone, let alone carry the franchise on his back.



I agree. Above I stated a couple of more reasons to him being rejuvinated on Manhattan..
Great post. I agree.

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Old
07-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #842
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Again, it's completely unrelated to compare international hockey with NHL hockey.

You have to factor in rink sizes, rule changes , level of competition, etc.

And Nash isn't one of the best players in Canadian hockey the past 15 yrs internationally. That's a joke. He had a couple of great WC tournaments, one where he was named tournament MVP despite being 2nd to Matthew Lombardi in points. If you want to look at great Canadian international players, look at guys like Heatley and Iginla. Nash was a 4th line player with Team Canada in the Olympics and was bumped off of Crosby's line. In short words, if Nash is considered a legendary international player, you might as well include a guy like Nik Kronwall who won a tournament MVP in 2006 WC. It's the media that hypes up Nash.

Jonathan Cheechoo also won a Richard, not really supporting your argument when Nash won his award pre-lockout.
Rink sizes? Buddy they switched to NHL sized rinks a few years ago. Using international success is just as viable as using his stats now no? Nash has never played with a guy like Brad Richards in the NHL, let alone Derek Stepan.

Comparing Rick Nash to the likes of Jonathon Cheechoo is just stupid. Rick Nash has proven is worth. Do you see Jonathon Cheechoo putting up 30 goals for the last 7 of 8 years? No. So stop with the stupid ****ing comparisons.

Did I say Nash is a legendary player? No. I said he is one of the best in the last 15 years. So since 1998. Not exactly something out of this world to say. 2005 WC he put up 15 points in 9 games. 2007 WC he put up 11 points in 9 games. 2008 WC he put up 13 points in 9 games. WC MVP in 2007, and WC All star team in 2007 and 2008. And Nik Kronwall has proven to be a very good international player, so your point doesn't exactly stand.

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07-11-2012, 04:36 PM
  #843
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Mixed signals pal. Howsam would want him because he's on an entry level contract and not necessarily because he's this wonderful talent who's going to immediately upgrade Colombus's roster.
I'll repeat it, unless Stepan improves his skating, strength and stamina dramatically, his production won't be all that much better than it was last year!
And that only addresses overall performance.
He does not show a good shot generally, I repeat GENERALLY, let alone provide any indication of being a potential sniper.

I'm glad he's been opportunistic.
But we should not be loathe to an upgrade.

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07-11-2012, 04:38 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
Hatrick/Tim - I'm just having a friendly debate. I never said "you don't know what you are talking about". I dont want to get into a p1$$ing match. I put those stats up there and let anyone draw their own opinion. Hatrick - there aren't any stats for chrmistry or intangibles. However, in my opinion, I don't see an elite player. I see someone who plays a ton of minutes on a poor Blue Jacket team. I can't quantify what his worth is to the Rangers. Based on the statistical evidence, his salary, the holes in the line up in a potential trade and the potential cap implications his contract carries, I'd rather pass. He is overpaid in my opinion. I think this a trade that will set us back.

I'm not flaming you guys for pro-Nash thoughts. You are well within your rights but at least try and debate without the nonsense.
I respect your opinion. I just disagree with what you're backing it up with. Neither of us have an affect on what happens, so no point in a pissing match.

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07-11-2012, 04:38 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by Mkhizgilov View Post
Anyone saw Eklunds tweet? Rangers interested in adding Semin because they are frustrated about the Rick nash sweepstakes
I'm definitely in on this on a short term deal (2-3 years).

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07-11-2012, 04:39 PM
  #846
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I disagree somewhat. I followed Blue Jackets pretty closely when all of Strålman, Huselius and Påhlsson played there. Nash has been a favorite of mine since I watched him in the WC's many years ago.
IMO Nash has looked a bit disinterested this season, and given the team's poor start it's not unthinkable that was actually the case. They were out of the playoffs 15 games into the season. The effort, IMO, wasn't there all the time. There are a couple of reasons making me believe Rick Nash will be "rejuvenated" if he lands in NYR.

(No particular order)

1. Torts never accepts anyone taking a shift off. Nash obviously knows this and as is prepared to work his ass off. Given his overall talent, size and goalscoring ability I'm confident he will up his scoring but also be effective in the overall system as a winger. Winning battles, forcing turnovers, setting up teammates and so on.

2. The chance of winning. Never underestimate motivation to win.

3. Better linemates. No doubt about it, being set up by Richards will put you in better chances to score.

4. Less pressure. Not being the "face of the franchise" or the captain. I never thought of him as a guy enjoying being in the spotlight. In NY, he won't have to carry a whole franchise on his shoulder. Of course NY is more of a spotlight and the pressure is most definitely high, but Callahan is the captain, Henke is the King and players like Gaborik, Richards and Girardi (even McD and Staal) are considered star players. He won't have to deal with media all alone, let alone carry the franchise on his back.



I agree. Above I stated a couple of more reasons to him being rejuvinated on Manhattan..
Thank you.

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07-11-2012, 04:44 PM
  #847
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Hatrick/Tim My apologies, I think you guys were responding to someone else. If Nash becomes a Ranger, you can bet I'll root hard for him. I think we all agree but it's the speculation and the gambling where we disagree. I respect that. I stopped getting the center ice package but I'm certainly going to try to catch some Columbus games if possible. NBC didn't broadcast too many Jacket games if I recall correctly.

Cheers Hatrick/Tim.

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07-11-2012, 04:45 PM
  #848
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Hatrick/Tim My apologies, I think you guys were responding to someone else. If Nash becomes a Ranger, you can bet I'll root hard for him. I think we all agree but it's the speculation and the gambling where we disagree. I respect that. I stopped getting the center ice package but I'm certainly going to try to catch some Columbus games if possible. NBC didn't broadcast too many Jacket games if I recall correctly.

Cheers Hatrick/Tim.

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07-11-2012, 04:47 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Tim Erixon's Lunchbox View Post
Rink sizes? Buddy they switched to NHL sized rinks a few years ago. Using international success is just as viable as using his stats now no? Nash has never played with a guy like Brad Richards in the NHL, let alone Derek Stepan.
The international game is much, much, much different than the NHL game. I don't care if he scored 50 goals in 10 international games, it has no merit to NHL success.

Nash hasn't had talent around him, but neither did Marian Gaborik. He put up the points. Ales Hemsky/Martin Havlat put up similar/superior PPG's despite playing with absolute garbage their whole career. (Exception to Havlat who played with Kane in his last season with the Hawks)

He is a prime time goal scorer, that's it. It's pure speculation that he'll magically find some hidden potential inside of him at age 28 by playing in a grinding, defense-first system. I can spin it around to support my argument and claim that his numbers will flop now since he'll have a hard ass coach that'll force him to backcheck and play 2-way hockey instead of being told to be the only guy who can score with Columbus.

Quote:
Comparing Rick Nash to the likes of Jonathon Cheechoo is just stupid. Rick Nash has proven is worth. Do you see Jonathon Cheechoo putting up 30 goals for the last 7 of 8 years? No. So stop with the stupid ****ing comparisons.
They both won a Richard, except Cheechoo's done it more recently. All I'm saying is that it's not really relevant anymore since he's a much different player. He won a Richard, so did Cheechoo.

Quote:
Did I say Nash is a legendary player? No. I said he is one of the best in the last 15 years. So since 1998. Not exactly something out of this world to say. 2005 WC he put up 15 points in 9 games. 2007 WC he put up 11 points in 9 games. 2008 WC he put up 13 points in 9 games. WC MVP in 2007, and WC All star team in 2007 and 2008. And Nik Kronwall has proven to be a very good international player, so your point doesn't exactly stand.
I used Nik Kronwall as a prime example that international success doesn't correlate into NHL dominance. It's irrelevant to NHL hockey. If Nash is a 'stud' on small tournament sample sizes, you might as well include Kronwall, Heatley, Doan, and others.

And IMO to be known as one of the best international players, you have to put up numbers in the Olympics. He was gifted a spot by Babcock with Crosby and did nothing and was later moved to the 4th line in a shutdown role. Proving why he is a 2nd tier player and not elite.

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07-11-2012, 04:59 PM
  #850
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That is the polar opposite of what Cerny said this afternoon. According to him the Rangers have no interest in Semin.
i'd believe cerny over eklund any day... i'd have to see context to believe he said there's no interest in semin though. all i saw of the cerny chat is that we're looking at all our options right now.

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