HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

5 Steps to fixing the Maple Leafs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-11-2012, 06:22 PM
  #51
GreekLeafer
Registered User
 
GreekLeafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 283
vCash: 500
That is the worst start to a topic I've ever seen.

GreekLeafer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 06:44 PM
  #52
Leafs99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 14
vCash: 500
This, my friends, is why we are often the subject of ridicule. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then some of us are wearing beer goggles the likes of which scientists dare not invent when it comes to evaluating our talent.

Leafs99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 07:01 PM
  #53
jake77
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 23
vCash: 500
BE PATIENT. That's the very last thing that should come out of the mouth of a Leafs fan. We already have the longest "missing the playoffs streak" in the NHL. How much patience is required. Time to turn the heat up on management to perform. The current management team should feel nothing but pressure to vastly improve the performance of their team and I don't mean missing the playoffs in 2013 by two points. Not good enough.

jake77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 07:07 PM
  #54
Kirkpatrick
Registered User
 
Kirkpatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake77 View Post
BE PATIENT. That's the very last thing that should come out of the mouth of a Leafs fan. We already have the longest "missing the playoffs streak" in the NHL. How much patience is required. Time to turn the heat up on management to perform. The current management team should feel nothing but pressure to vastly improve the performance of their team and I don't mean missing the playoffs in 2013 by two points. Not good enough.
So...we should go back to that "trade picks for veterans to stretch out the playoffs" thing? You know, the stuff that ended up with a team posting the start to the league's longest current playoff drought.

If there's anything Leafs fans should know, it's the cost of being impatient.

Kirkpatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 07:09 PM
  #55
Predaleafs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,069
vCash: 500
It easy

Step 1:Trade our best players for picks and prospects
Step 2:Trade our best prospects for better picks
Step 3:?????????????
Step 4 Profit

Predaleafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 07:12 PM
  #56
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkpatrick View Post
So...we should go back to that "trade picks for veterans to stretch out the playoffs" thing? You know, the stuff that ended up with a team posting the start to the league's longest current playoff drought.

If there's anything Leafs fans should know, it's the cost of being impatient.

The reality is whether the leafs and management are patient or impatient the team doesn't make the playoffs nor is competitive. What is needed is smart, pragmatic and shrewd management that can make the leafs a competitive (and ideally playoff) team without sacrificing the future and needing to hide behind excuses of inheriting a weak team and low quality prospect pool.

That is a better goal and not this plan of building for future with what appears to more mid quality prospects and fewer elite prospects and hoping the team makes the playoff sometime in the next decade - maybe.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 07:16 PM
  #57
Kirkpatrick
Registered User
 
Kirkpatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
The reality is whether the leafs and management are patient or impatient the team doesn't make the playoffs nor is competitive. What is needed is smart, pragmatic and shrewd management that can make the leafs a competitive (and ideally playoff) team without sacrificing the future and needing to hide behind excuses of inheriting a weak team and low quality prospect pool.

That is a better goal and not this plan of building for future with mid quality prospects and hoping the team makes the playoff sometime in the next decade - maybe.
I agree that that is the ideal goal, and that's why I think the idea that "the current management team should feel nothing but pressure to vastly improve the performance of their team" is ridiculous, because it implies that the present is more important than the future when as Leafs fans we know exactly where that kind of singular focus leads.

Kirkpatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 07:27 PM
  #58
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkpatrick View Post
I agree that that is the ideal goal, and that's why I think the idea that "the current management team should feel nothing but pressure to vastly improve the performance of their team" is ridiculous, because it implies that the present is more important than the future when as Leafs fans we know exactly where that kind of singular focus leads.
Other franchises have built a competitive team in 1 or 2 years without sacrificing the future so this is not an unrealistic goal. It is difficult and requires skill, planning and sometimes a bit of luck but it is not impossible and especially over four year period.

And the person suggesting for the leafs to sacrifice the future was you. To me it looks like you are letting your bias of sacrificing the future to effect the goal of creating a competitive team both now and in the future.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 08:25 PM
  #59
Kirkpatrick
Registered User
 
Kirkpatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Other franchises have built a competitive team in 1 or 2 years without sacrificing the future so this is not an unrealistic goal. It is difficult and requires skill, planning and sometimes a bit of luck but it is not impossible and especially over four year period.

And the person suggesting for the leafs to sacrifice the future was you. To me it looks like you are letting your bias of sacrificing the future to effect the goal of creating a competitive team both now and in the future.
I'm not sure which franchises you're thinking of, but I'll trust you that competitive teams have indeed been built in a one or two year timeframe. Were any of them complete team overhauls? Because that seems incredibly - almost unreasonably - fast for significant team turnover to me.

And I tried to explain in my previous post that I interpreted statements suggesting that Leafs fans should be "anything but patient" and put "nothing but pressure to make the playoffs" on the management as suggestions that the Leafs should reduce or ignore the focus on building the team in order to become competitive immediately, and I think that it is more important to create a team capable of continued competition than one that competes briefly.

Kirkpatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 08:36 PM
  #60
LetzgoEggo
Registered User
 
LetzgoEggo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Nice effort on the post. I think even if you don't agree you should at least appreciate effort.

A lot I like about the trades as having Staal or Weber would be huge. Ultimately BB has made his bed with the core guys here in Phil and Dion so I think we are sinking or swimming with those two.

LetzgoEggo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2012, 09:16 PM
  #61
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkpatrick View Post
I'm not sure which franchises you're thinking of, but I'll trust you that competitive teams have indeed been built in a one or two year timeframe. Were any of them complete team overhauls? Because that seems incredibly - almost unreasonably - fast for significant team turnover to me.

And I tried to explain in my previous post that I interpreted statements suggesting that Leafs fans should be "anything but patient" and put "nothing but pressure to make the playoffs" on the management as suggestions that the Leafs should reduce or ignore the focus on building the team in order to become competitive immediately, and I think that it is more important to create a team capable of continued competition than one that competes briefly.
Burke turnover of the team like Edmonton by selling off assets. But than he tried to rebuild on the fly by acquiring Kessel. This was the worst of both world because he got rid of the leaf team talent and than traded away his high value draft picks.

I was looking at the overhaul of Panthers who traded away some players (horton) than accumlated prospects via the draft. And also signed up UFAs and trade for players to ice a competitive team.
This is the best of both worlds - winning today with out sacrificing the future.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 02:34 PM
  #62
KingWantsCup
Super Saiyan Hank
 
KingWantsCup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,271
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik Kristal View Post

To New York Rangers - Kessel
To Toronto - Staal, Kreider & 1st in 2013
I literally lol'd.

KingWantsCup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 03:08 PM
  #63
jake77
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 23
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkpatrick View Post
So...we should go back to that "trade picks for veterans to stretch out the playoffs" thing? You know, the stuff that ended up with a team posting the start to the league's longest current playoff drought.

If there's anything Leafs fans should know, it's the cost of being impatient.
Perhaps Leafs management should visit the management team of the Florida Panthers to find out how they turned their team around in one year. But then again, they were probably lucky and didn't really know what they were doing...

jake77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 04:46 PM
  #64
Kirkpatrick
Registered User
 
Kirkpatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Burke turnover of the team like Edmonton by selling off assets. But than he tried to rebuild on the fly by acquiring Kessel. This was the worst of both world because he got rid of the leaf team talent and than traded away his high value draft picks.

I was looking at the overhaul of Panthers who traded away some players (horton) than accumlated prospects via the draft. And also signed up UFAs and trade for players to ice a competitive team.
This is the best of both worlds - winning today with out sacrificing the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake77 View Post
Perhaps Leafs management should visit the management team of the Florida Panthers to find out how they turned their team around in one year. But then again, they were probably lucky and didn't really know what they were doing...
I don't know that the Leafs have been bad long enough to emulate the Panthers. Note that a player like Horton was Florida's 1st rounder, 3rd overall in 2003, a year the Leafs finished 9th overall, in the playoffs.

I think Tallon has done quite the job reworking Florida, but I don't really see a franchise that set the record for consecutive playoff absences followed by a 14th place finish as being the model for a rebuild yet. If they continue on and improve their success, maybe that'll be a different story.

Does this mean that if the Leafs were to make the playoffs this year, they would be a model franshise for rebuilding? After all, they've been terrible for half of the time Florida was before getting competitive

Kirkpatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 04:58 PM
  #65
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Burke turnover of the team like Edmonton by selling off assets. But than he tried to rebuild on the fly by acquiring Kessel. This was the worst of both world because he got rid of the leaf team talent and than traded away his high value draft picks.
Burke didn't trade the picks away, he got extremely high value for them.

Why are you still writing this nonsense?

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 05:47 PM
  #66
Henderson19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
5 Steps:

1. Be patient and let the kids develop.

2. Trade a few extra roster players for an upgrade, opening a spot for a kid to play.

Example: trade Franson and MacA, for an upgrade of Franson. Someone to compliment Dion.

3. Be patient.

4. Allow Lombardi, Connolly and Komo to play, and hopefully be able to move them by the deadline, but if not, let them expire and open cap space.

5. Be patient.
This. With extra doses of both #1 and #5.

Henderson19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 06:16 PM
  #67
Ricky Bobby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,409
vCash: 500
For this season.

Step 1: Reink Lupul

Step 2: Don't overpay on contracts beyond next season for Connolly, Bozak, CMac or Lombardi. If they're staying okay but only if their willing to take less to stay in Toronto. All of them are useful NHLers but not core pieces. Whichever players aren't signed beyond next season trade close to the deadline when they're so few sellers that teams can get a lot for 2nd/3rd line type.

Step 3: Adding additional assets (drafts picks from step 2) will give Burke more ammo to address team needs next off-season. Plus he'll have lots of cap room to add 1 but possibly even 2 high impact high price talents (5+ million dollar players). Plan on addressing at least one area through trade which will most likely mean a secondary talent in one of Kulemin, Kadri, Gunnarson + draft picks will be heading out the door.

Everybody knows we need a center upgrade.

But we could also use another high end dman.

And goaltending could still be a concern.

Ricky Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 07:09 PM
  #68
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Burke didn't trade the picks away, he got extremely high value for them.

Why are you still writing this nonsense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Burke didn't trade the picks away, he got extremely high value for them.

Why are you still writing this nonsense?

Burke traded a lotto, a top 10 pick and a second for an elite player to win now or sooner. Edmonton kept their lotto picks and built up a boatload of elite prospects.

Also Kessel on the leafs worsened the draft picks going forward. That is, this the picks could have been higher picks.

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 07:25 PM
  #69
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Burke traded a lotto, a top 10 pick and a second for an elite player to win now or sooner. Edmonton kept their lotto picks and built up a boatload of elite prospects.

Also Kessel on the leafs worsened the draft picks going forward. That is, this the picks could have been higher picks.
Right, Burke put Kessel with Bozak and Joey Crabbe and rookie goaltenders and didn't go out and get a host of veterans because his plan was to win now. Then you lie about Edmonton having a boatload of elite prospects.

Either you don't watch hockey or you have some weird agenda.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 07:35 PM
  #70
New Liskeard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Burke traded a lotto, a top 10 pick and a second for an elite player to win now or sooner. Edmonton kept their lotto picks and built up a boatload of elite prospects.

Also Kessel on the leafs worsened the draft picks going forward. That is, this the picks could have been higher picks.
The picks he traded were not lotto picks, not sure why you are suggesting otherwise. I'll give you credit, you have been putting plenty of effort trolling these boards conistently. I'm suprised it is permitted.

New Liskeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 08:24 PM
  #71
KesseltoLupul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,788
vCash: 500
1. Trade Bozak, Franson, draft pick for Roberto Luongo.
2. Wait a year for Ryan Getzlaf
3. Wait a year for Morgan Rielly
4. Cross your fingers Kadri develops
5. Hope JVR can make a stride

Joffrey Lupul - Ryan Getzlaf - Phil Kessel
James van Riemsdyk - Mikhail Grabovski - Nazem Kadri
Nikolai Kulemin - Jay McClement - Matt Frattin
Brad Ross - David Steckel - Mike Brown
Carter Ashton

Morgan Rielly - Dion Phaneuf
Jake Gardiner - Korbinian Holzer
JM Liles - Carl Gunnarsson
Mike Komisarek

Roberto Luongo
James Reimer

KesseltoLupul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 08:28 PM
  #72
Darkhorse1280
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: York Region
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72 View Post
Burke traded a lotto, a top 10 pick and a second for an elite player to win now or sooner. Edmonton kept their lotto picks and built up a boatload of elite prospects.

Also Kessel on the leafs worsened the draft picks going forward. That is, this the picks could have been higher picks.
Damn...I wish you could of told Burke about your uncanny psychic abilities at the time and advise him to nix the deal altogether.

While we're at it, can you divulge what the winning lotto numbers will be for this weekend?

kthxbye.

Darkhorse1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 08:37 PM
  #73
Darkhorse1280
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: York Region
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KesseltoLupul View Post
1. Trade Bozak, Franson, draft pick for Roberto Luongo.
2. Wait a year for Ryan Getzlaf
3. Wait a year for Morgan Rielly
4. Cross your fingers Kadri develops
5. Hope JVR can make a stride

Joffrey Lupul - Ryan Getzlaf - Phil Kessel
James van Riemsdyk - Mikhail Grabovski - Nazem Kadri
Nikolai Kulemin - Jay McClement - Matt Frattin
Brad Ross - David Steckel - Mike Brown
Carter Ashton

Morgan Rielly - Dion Phaneuf
Jake Gardiner - Korbinian Holzer
JM Liles - Carl Gunnarsson
Mike Komisarek

Roberto Luongo
James Reimer


Why do most Leaf fans in here think that Anaheim will just let Getzlaf walk away for nothing if he doesn't sign an extension with them? It won't be that easy.

If they can't reach an agreement with him, they'll put him on the trade block long before next summer, and alot of other interested teams can and will outbid any Leaf package that Burke could put together.

Darkhorse1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2012, 09:06 PM
  #74
number72
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkhorse1280 View Post
Damn...I wish you could of told Burke about your uncanny psychic abilities at the time and advise him to nix the deal altogether.

While we're at it, can you divulge what the winning lotto numbers will be for this weekend?

kthxbye.
Sure. I'll also tell Burke that smarter GMs like Chia trade their first round picks to move from a playoff team to a cup contender. This ensures the draft pick is a low 20 or in Kaberle's case a 30th.

I don't know many GMs that trade their first round pick while they have been a consistent non-playoff team let alone two first picks. There is a difference in trading a non playoff first (top 10 or lotto) and playoff first (20 to 30s).

number72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:40 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.