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2012/2013 German Bundesliga

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:02 PM
  #651
HajdukSplit
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on ESPN's EPL coverage today they said Moyes was linked with the Schalke job, found that surprising

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03-16-2013, 06:03 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by HajdukSplit View Post
on ESPN's EPL coverage today they said Moyes was linked with the Schalke job, found that surprising
No way Schalke does something that smart without still finding some way to **** it all up.

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03-16-2013, 06:21 PM
  #653
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No way Schalke does something that smart without still finding some way to **** it all up.
Well, if rumors are true and Veh is their big target, I believe they're doing something reasonably smart that way, as well. Ever since his arrival in the Bundesliga in Rostock, I thought Veh was a pretty good coach (granted, I probably didn't have too much of a reason to actually hold much in that belief). He had his more disappointing stints, but I still think he'd be a great choice. That said, Schalke is one of the teams that I find impossible to predict. They fired Slomka for a rough patch while taking the club far in the CL, and they basically did the same thing to Stevens. I don't think there's a coach out there that will be able to turn that team into a Dortmund-level club or that doesn't struggle to be as safely 3rd/4th in Bundesliga consistently as the club seems to expect from their managers.

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03-17-2013, 12:20 AM
  #654
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Veh wouldn't be a terrible hire, but I have him down in that middle range of guys who are decent enough to do well in some situations but could also totally flop. Is he better than Huub Stevens? Slomka? Heynckes?

I mean let's look at Horst Heldt for a second, the next guy will be his fourth full time manager in three years. People respect him because he talks smart and seems solid, but let's face it, sacking managers on an annual basis does not reflect fantastically upon him. And sacking Stevens when he did was one of the dumber moves I've seen.

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03-17-2013, 02:56 AM
  #655
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Schalke won't go anywhere till Heldt is sacked IMO

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03-17-2013, 09:15 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by HajdukSplit View Post
on ESPN's EPL coverage today they said Moyes was linked with the Schalke job, found that surprising
No chance they get him, why would anyone go from Everton to Schalke? He once said if he could choose a country to coach in, he'd choose germany because the germans are like him and mentality, "easy and hard-working"... which doesn't fit this suqad at all. The original source also states that he wants a club with money to spend... not a very good argument for schalke here.

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Well, if rumors are true and Veh is their big target, I believe they're doing something reasonably smart that way, as well. Ever since his arrival in the Bundesliga in Rostock, I thought Veh was a pretty good coach (granted, I probably didn't have too much of a reason to actually hold much in that belief). He had his more disappointing stints, but I still think he'd be a great choice. That said, Schalke is one of the teams that I find impossible to predict. They fired Slomka for a rough patch while taking the club far in the CL, and they basically did the same thing to Stevens. I don't think there's a coach out there that will be able to turn that team into a Dortmund-level club or that doesn't struggle to be as safely 3rd/4th in Bundesliga consistently as the club seems to expect from their managers.
The problem with Schalke is that they need succes, because their annual payroll is still about 10-20 million higher than what we can afford. Thus they can't afford a manager to ease in. It's stupid. But the problem is in the mentality, because of the championship drought we have, which led to title chasing. Add to that that the leaders of this club have been and still are (Tönnies) more fans than reasonable decision makers, and you have a completely overspending club. I honestly believe that if we had won that title in 2001, Schalke would be a near healthy club now. Instead, we've had a champiuons league wage level for the past almost 10 years, but have never been a perenial champions league club.

Things will only change if we somehow manage to fluke out a championship or hit the wall completely financially. Unfourtunately I'd say the latter is more likely.

To your last point though: I don't see the potential in this club that Dortmund has. We're a pretty small city (not even top 5 in the ruhr area) and, let's say, not the most potent one financially. No one wants to have anything to do with this city, it's like Edmonton, we have to pay players more than their worth (Farfan, Huntelaar) or hope to produce our own young talent (which we can't keep long either). If we somehow managed to grow a young core that can identify with the club and is willing to stay together, well maybe. But let's face it: Dortmund hit the perfect storm. All the credit in the world to them, but they had some luck in there that just isn't possible to replicate. And the credit here has to go to their scouting, because the only players they produced themselves are Götze and Sahin. The rest of their youngsters have been bought in with just about a 100% transfer record. And they all broke out at the same time too. If Özil, Neuer, Höwedes, Papadopolus etc all had come up at the same time, maybe we'd have been able to keep them. Ah, whatever. The pessimist in me says that we have just seen Dortmund pull away from Schalke forever. Depressing.


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03-17-2013, 09:23 AM
  #657
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I'd love for Schalke to get a good, good coach. They have lots of potential.

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03-17-2013, 09:28 AM
  #658
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3-0 win over Ingolstadt, with Bunjaku getting 2 goals, is this real life?

It pains me to cheer for Dresden tomorrow, but c'mon you ****ers

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03-17-2013, 10:30 AM
  #659
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Friend of mine just posted this, a picture of the away bay for today's game...



Maybe 50 fans for a Sunday afternoon kickoff.....

Easily lowest of the season in Kaiserslautern, Cottbus brought 400, Aue brought 200, Aalen 200, Regensburg 100. Didn't think the Regensburg total would be beaten

Some of them get a pass (IE Aue, 500km trip on a Monday night in **** weather)

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03-17-2013, 11:29 AM
  #660
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nobody wants 4th place it looks like

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03-17-2013, 12:18 PM
  #661
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Gladbach up 1-0 in the battle of my favorite 1st BuLi teams, twas a pretty goal from De Jong and Herrmann.

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:17 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Veh wouldn't be a terrible hire, but I have him down in that middle range of guys who are decent enough to do well in some situations but could also totally flop. Is he better than Huub Stevens? Slomka? Heynckes?

I mean let's look at Horst Heldt for a second, the next guy will be his fourth full time manager in three years. People respect him because he talks smart and seems solid, but let's face it, sacking managers on an annual basis does not reflect fantastically upon him. And sacking Stevens when he did was one of the dumber moves I've seen.
With regard to Stevens, I fully share your opinion. But now, he has been sacked and obviously will not be hired again next season. Slomka is not available and Heynckes most certainly will not be, either; he also had a horrible stint as Schalke coach. So only Veh remains, being one of the most successful coaches this season, a person with a very good relationship to Heldt and fully available to be signed in July. One could not fault Heldt for this move, at all.

For reasons that elude me, Bundesliga has not been friendly to coaches who do not speak German. McLaren's time of Wolfsburg was a disaster and even Trappatoni - one of the most successful coaches ever - only had mediocre stints in Munich and a horrible time in Stuttgart. So if Moyes really wanted to work in Germany (despite being paid less), he should learn the language; I am sure, this is exactly what Guardiola does at the moment.

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03-18-2013, 12:46 PM
  #663
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I think there are a few good reasons. For one Germany still is a country that's basically impossible to successfully live and work in without German skills of some sort.

As a football manager you need to speak to the media, you need to speak to club officials. Communication via broken English (or very poor German) or translators are detrimental. Remember, Trapattoni is still a (legendary) figure of fun for his eccentric press conference outburst.

Another reason is that Germany is a big country with a huge pool of coaches to choose from, then you add Switzerland and Austria to that and even the Netherlands (the Dutch seem to learn German quite easily) and there's a lot of options before you would look at someone from further abroad.

It's not surprising that Bayern and Wolfsburg have been two notable clubs taking the risk as you point out, both are ambitious and cosmopolitan in outlook and more likely to consider a "big name" regardless of the language issue. But I think it's a huge risk for those clubs, too. The Guardiola experiment will be intriguing. One of the most dangerous things to happen to a manager at Bayern is to be isolated from the "powers that be" and with a language deficit that's more likely to happen.

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03-18-2013, 01:14 PM
  #664
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Your points are valid, but they do apply to other countries as well, sometimes even more so. Russian, Ukrainian and particularly Turkish teams have had successful coaches with little knowledge of the respective language. I also doubt that Benitez' English, McLaren's Dutch or Ancelotti's English and French were/are really impressive. Yet they got by with it.

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03-18-2013, 02:55 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by BSHH View Post
Your points are valid, but they do apply to other countries as well, sometimes even more so. Russian, Ukrainian and particularly Turkish teams have had successful coaches with little knowledge of the respective language. I also doubt that Benitez' English, McLaren's Dutch or Ancelotti's English and French were/are really impressive. Yet they got by with it.

Gruß,
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Different outlooks, Turkey and the former Soviet Union were footballing backwaters for a long time and to some extent still are but with a lot of ambition and money. It is understood there that getting to an elite level usually means bringing in foreign expertise whether it's players or coaches. In fact, there is prestige attached to getting an experienced manager from a footballing powerhouse.

It's how German hockey and basketball clubs, sports where it is obvious Germany is second rate, do not hesitate at all to hire foreign coaches with dubious German skills. It's far from unusual for the locker room language to be English at German teams in those sports (which would probably not fly at football clubs in general).

Then you have cultures which are simply extremely open to English in particular, like the Netherlands and Scandinavia, and where footballing culture has also been a *lot* more influenced by Britain than it has been in Germany. Hiring an English speaker there would barely raise an eyebrow.

Another phenomenon is what I would call "the world club" where the national identity of the club is getting increasingly irrelevant, where owners and officials tend to increasingly be foreigners themselves. Here, nationality is practically irrelevant - I think learning English is still expected - but those clubs will hire foreigners first and then worry about the language - the prestige and perceived ability of the hiree matters most. The top EPL clubs would be in this category, PSG as well now. Bayern so far have maintained a very pronounced German and Bavarian "feel" with the club very deeply embedded in German culture and society - it will be interesting to see if that changes with Guardiola.

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03-25-2013, 10:25 AM
  #666
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Veh extended his contract

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03-25-2013, 02:37 PM
  #667
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Veh extended his contract
As a football fan, I find Veh's decision a bit disappointing, since this might have been his last chance to coach a top team, which easily contends for CL spots and perhaps for even more. As a HSV member, I loathe Veh since his stint here in Hamburg for all his lies and meager results, so I am pretty happy that he is missing out on a very interesting station in his career. Every Schalke fan should be relieved today, regardless of who will come instead of Veh.

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03-30-2013, 11:59 AM
  #668
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Schalke back up to 4th for at least one day, as you would expect Frankfurt to win in Furth

Big loser of the day was Augsburg for me, saw some of that match and they had more efforts on goal than Hannover but couldn't convert. Even a draw would have been alright today with both Fortuna and Hoffenheim losing. Now they go to Dortmund next week while they will lose ground on either Hoffenheim or Fortuna as they play each other.

Massive point for Werder at Mainz to ease any realistic relegation worries, results also went their way

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03-30-2013, 12:54 PM
  #669
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Well done Bremen for taking a point off depp05

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03-30-2013, 01:08 PM
  #670
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Seeing Bayern doing this to Hamburg with their second string attackers, makes promotion a somewhat more depressing idea. They'd put 10 past my eiserne if we make it, we might be able to get a good 2 or 3 goals of our own, but **** me is this brutal. Feel so bad for Adler right now.

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03-30-2013, 01:09 PM
  #671
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Seeing Bayern doing this to Hamburg with their second string attackers, makes promotion a somewhat more depressing idea. They'd put 10 past my eiserne if we make it, we might be able to get a good 2 or 3 goals of our own, but **** me is this brutal. Feel so bad for Adler right now.
Let's be honest, it's kind of an academic concern, Union aren't going up.

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03-30-2013, 01:13 PM
  #672
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Let's be honest, it's kind of an academic concern, Union aren't going up.
We'll see, I'm not expecting it and will go absolutely nuts if they pull it off, but it wouldn't exactly be a shock. If our D can step up down the stretch we've got as good a chance as any of the teams in the mix.

1860 is the only team we play who are above us in the table, and we'll actually move ahead of them if we beat Frankfurt tomorrow, with a lot of games against the teams at the bottom to go. The offense is enough to fire us into league 1, but the D needs to get it done when we go on the road.


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03-30-2013, 01:21 PM
  #673
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We'll see, I'm not expecting it and will go absolutely nuts if they pull it off, but it wouldn't exactly be a shock. If our D can step up down the stretch we've got as good a chance as any of the teams in the mix.
Wouldn't be a shock? I'd disagree. It would be a pretty big shock, as Union probably have the 2nd weakest squad of the top 7 and are 6 points back right now, while not a big gap, is a decent gap to close up with so few games to play.

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03-30-2013, 01:25 PM
  #674
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Wouldn't be a shock? I'd disagree. It would be a pretty big shock, as Union probably have the 2nd weakest squad of the top 7 and are 6 points back right now, while not a big gap, is a decent gap to close up with so few games to play.
Lautern and Koln are the favorites for that third spot, but I think we're at the head of that next group of teams, a high scoring offense (2nd best in the league behind Hertha), a relatively easy schedule from here on out, and a great home advantage is a good combo heading into this final stretch.

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03-30-2013, 01:33 PM
  #675
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Lautern and Koln are the favorites for that third spot, but I think we're at the head of that next group of teams, a high scoring offense (2nd best in the league behind Hertha), a relatively easy schedule from here on out, and a great home advantage is a good combo heading into this final stretch.
Could also say 5 of the last 8 games are away from home, and 3 of those 5 coming against teams around you

And just having a quick glance, most of the top half teams have decent schedules, not at the point where one team has a huge advantage anyway.

But we'll see, I'm still expecting Köln to take 3rd, but if Lautern want to surprise me they can feel free

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