Ruff was on Hockey Hotline today talking about various topics. The quote in the thread title was about Ennis taking over Roy's minutes.
- The plan is for Ennis to take over Roy's role as the top minutes, all situations center.
Ruff also touched on
-Loves how Foligno opened up space for Ennis and Stafford. They were a great compliment of skills as a line. He also wants what Foligno brings on every line and feels thats a formula for success. Unrealistic to expect the same level of production from Marcus but they're hoping for something close.
-Hopes to keep to Hodgson's ice time in the 16-17mins range
-then said -> "Where we fit in Ott in that whole thing is going to determine some of the other guys ice time".
Sounds like Ruff hasn't decided if Ott will be a center or wing yet.
- They felt Ennis took great strides as a center, even though its a little bit of a gamble (taking over Roy's role), but they all liked what they saw in Ennis at center.
I have to say I'm a bit surprised they are handing over the top line to two kids and Stafford. I'm excited and nervous about it.
I'm not calling Ennis poor defensive because of his size, I'm calling him poor defensively because he is.
Gerbe is even smaller, but he's pretty good defensively. Not Selke good, but I'd trust him on the ice with 40 secs left with a one-goal lead.
Based on what? This seems so terribly arbitrary that it's almost not worth the debate.
We have seen Ennis in a winger's role defensively. We have no evidence that indicates Ennis will be incapable of learning the defensive side of the position, just as he is learning the offensive side of it.
Sorry, I'm just not as worried as some of you. If Ennis is a defensive liability, he won't be seeing the late game minutes that require defensive stalwarts. People are speaking in this thread as if Ennis will be firmly entrenched as our go-to guy even if he ends up being incapable. We have plenty of forwards who will be able to play in whatever situation(s). This is quite the backlash over something miniscule.
Based on what? This seems so terribly arbitrary that it's almost not worth the debate.
We have seen Ennis in a winger's role defensively. We have no evidence that indicates Ennis will be incapable of learning the defensive side of the position, just as he is learning the offensive side of it.
Sorry, I'm just not as worried as some of you. If Ennis is a defensive liability, he won't be seeing the late game minutes that require defensive stalwarts. People are speaking in this thread as if Ennis will be firmly entrenched as our go-to guy even if he ends up being incapable. We have plenty of forwards who will be able to play in whatever situation(s). This is quite the backlash over something miniscule.
Referring to Gerbe? Based on the fact that he is a decent PKer, and played on a quasi-shutdown line with Goose and Kaleta and didn't look out of place.
Ennis 5v5 has never shown real defensive chops.
Could Ennis get better? Sure. But as of right now, he's not there.
give or take, depending on trading for another center. Ennis' numbers next year:
28 44 = 72 pts
Book it.
I think he can handle the minutes and is gonna really break out. Could be higher or lower depending if they bring in another top 6.
I'm not as optimistic ... I see Ennis barely making it to 55 pts. I'm not talking about "on pace" BS. I think an injury or slumping, will affect his production. But I'll be fine if he makes it to 50 pts. or more this season.
Based on what? This seems so terribly arbitrary that it's almost not worth the debate.
We have seen Ennis in a winger's role defensively. We have no evidence that indicates Ennis will be incapable of learning the defensive side of the position, just as he is learning the offensive side of it.
Sorry, I'm just not as worried as some of you. If Ennis is a defensive liability, he won't be seeing the late game minutes that require defensive stalwarts. People are speaking in this thread as if Ennis will be firmly entrenched as our go-to guy even if he ends up being incapable. We have plenty of forwards who will be able to play in whatever situation(s). This is quite the backlash over something miniscule.
Well, Gerbe has shown more as a defensive player so far in his career, so I don't see a problem with what the man said.
Referring to Gerbe? Based on the fact that he is a decent PKer, and played on a quasi-shutdown line with Goose and Kaleta and didn't look out of place.
A decent penalty killer does not mean a good defensive player by default. I know several players who know how to play the top of a box, clog the shooting lanes, keep the stick active...but look lost even strength. Not putting Gerbe in that category necessarily, but you're looking at two small sample sizes and analyzing them to tailor your argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDS
Ennis 5v5 has never shown real defensive chops.
as a winger, where his responsibilities are notably different. And I never saw him as an unbearable liability like you imply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDS
Could Ennis get better? Sure. But as of right now, he's not there.
so now I ask....what are your issues with what ruff said? He wants to put him there and have him learn on the fly. We shall see. Just like you, I'm sure lindy sees room for improvement, and clearly thinks he is capable in that role, or he would've singled Cody out - or abstained from anything related to the topic
A decent penalty killer does not mean a good defensive player by default. I know several players who know how to play the top of a box, clog the shooting lanes, keep the stick active...but look lost even strength. Not putting Gerbe in that category necessarily, but you're looking at two small sample sizes and analyzing them to tailor your argument.
as a winger, where his responsibilities are notably different. And I never saw him as an unbearable liability like you imply.
so now I ask....what are your issues with what ruff said? He wants to put him there and have him learn on the fly. We shall see. Just like you, I'm sure lindy sees room for improvement, and clearly thinks he is capable in that role, or he would've singled Cody out - or abstained from anything related to the topic
I'd prefer he work on that game when he's not staring Sidney Crosby in the face. Which to me is part of "all-situations".
I'd prefer he work on that game when he's not staring Sidney Crosby in the face. Which to me is part of "all-situations".
Just stop for a second and think about what Roy's role really was. And then ask if Roy did a large amount of things for the team that Ennis is incapable of doing. Thoughts?
(LDS' thoughts here)
Then ask...At home, did Ruff EVER send Roy's line out after seeing Sid hop over and lead his line onto the ice? Ever? If it happened once this year, it was likely because Goose was just out against the Malkin line, and unavailable (if Sid even played any games against us). Come on now. I know your point, I see what you're trying to get at, and I know you just used Pitt as an example...but my point is that you are overreacting.
All the quote means is that Ennis will start the year as our #1 center on paper. If Ruff does any matching, he will likely be sending Ott and his linemates out against other top lines.
The Sabres are heavy with talent on the wings and thin at center, so I think that the wingers dictate line, not the center. What I mean is, calling Ennis our #1 center simply because he's our best center, is a bit misleading because he is not going to be rolled out on the top line. Whoever skates between Vanek and Pomminville will be called the "#1" center, because that will be the teams best line. Whether it's Adam, Hodson, Ennis, or whomever. The 2nd line will likely feature Stafford and Foligno on the wings.
Well, Gerbe has shown more as a defensive player so far in his career, so I don't see a problem with what the man said.
It's a small sample size, and we are now talking about Ennis in a different defensive role than the sample we have seen. One that puts him in more places....something I personally think he will get a good grasp of.
Just stop for a second and think about what Roy's role really was. And then ask if Roy did a large amount of things for the team that Ennis is incapable of doing. Thoughts?
(LDS' thoughts here)
Then ask...At home, did Ruff EVER send Roy's line out after seeing Sid hop over and lead his line onto the ice? Ever? If it happened once this year, it was likely because Goose was just out against the Malkin line, and unavailable (if Sid even played any games against us). Come on now. I know your point, I see what you're trying to get at, and I know you just used Pitt as an example...but my point is that you are overreacting.
All the quote means is that Ennis will start the year as our #1 center on paper. If Ruff does any matching, he will likely be sending Ott and his linemates out against other top lines.
I'm sure, many times, Roy did play top lines. He had a fairly high QoC. I understand Goose got many of the tough matchups, as well, but Roy wasn't play hacks. We're likely going from Roy and Goose getting those matchups, to Ennis and Hodgson. That concerns me.
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I'm enthusiastic about the long-term landscape of our center situation after some of the moves since February. But I'm very concerned as of right now about our center situation this season.
I'm sure, many times, Roy did play top lines. He had a fairly high QoC. I understand Goose got many of the tough matchups, as well, but Roy wasn't play hacks.
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I'm enthusiastic about the long-term landscape of our center situation after some of the moves since February. But I'm very concerned as of right now about our center situation this season.
He absolutely played against top lines. Very frequently. My point is that he was never sent out to match a top line in a defensive role. That was Gaustad, if anyone. And we saw opponents send out their top D-able forward line against FES by the end of the year, fwiw (meaning, he was viewed as our top center at a point)
I'm enthusiastic about the long-term landscape of our center situation after some of the moves since February. But I'm very concerned as of right now about our center situation this season.
this is pretty well said, and about where I stand. But clearly for different reasons. I'm not worried about Ennis...I'm worried about Hodgson and the lack of depth if Ott plays wing.
It's a small sample size, and we are now talking about Ennis in a different defensive role than the sample we have seen. One that puts him in more places....something I personally think he will get a good grasp of.
I agree with you that calling Ennis "1" doesn't mean he will be sent out against every teams #1 line all the time. And it's too early to say what kind of a defensive player he will be at center, all the time.
I always thought of Ennis as a reliable defensive player. Puts forth an honest effort on the BC and he doesn't eff around in his d-zone, he usually takes care of the puck and gets it out. I recall a couple of mind farts, he's got work to do.
BTW Gerbe is a pretty exceptional defensive forward. Tenacious BCing and he even makes highlight reel defensive plays from time to time. He would be on the top PK if I coached the team.
I agree with you that calling Ennis "1" doesn't mean he will be sent out against every teams #1 line all the time. And it's too early to say what kind of a defensive player he will be at center, all the time.
I always thought of Ennis as a reliable defensive player. Puts forth an honest effort on the BC and he doesn't eff around in his d-zone, he usually takes care of the puck and gets it out. I recall a couple of mind farts, he's got work to do.
BTW Gerbe is a pretty exceptional defensive forward. Tenacious BCing and he even makes highlight reel defensive plays from time to time. He would be on the top PK if I coached the team.
Gerbe has looked good defensively. But again, small sample size(unrelated to Ennis discussion)... So to unequivocally state that you're 100% okay with Gerbe out in the last minute and not Ennis is something I won't do yet.
Gerbe has looked good defensively. But again, small sample size(unrelated to Ennis discussion)... So to unequivocally state that you're 100% okay with Gerbe out in the last minute and not Ennis is something I won't do yet.
ewww yeah ur in the minority there pal. I LOVE the idea of watching Ennis run the power play all season. He's a crafty SOB. I'll leave it at that.
ewww yeah ur in the minority there pal. I LOVE the idea of watching Ennis run the power play all season. He's a crafty SOB. I'll leave it at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds
Gerbe has looked good defensively. But again, small sample size(unrelated to Ennis discussion)... So to unequivocally state that you're 100% okay with Gerbe out in the last minute and not Ennis is something I won't do yet.
hes refering to last minute of the game in a defensive situation (I assume) .. and I am in that small minority because I agree with him..
Just stop for a second and think about what Roy's role really was. And then ask if Roy did a large amount of things for the team that Ennis is incapable of doing. Thoughts?
(LDS' thoughts here)
Then ask...At home, did Ruff EVER send Roy's line out after seeing Sid hop over and lead his line onto the ice? Ever? If it happened once this year, it was likely because Goose was just out against the Malkin line, and unavailable (if Sid even played any games against us). Come on now. I know your point, I see what you're trying to get at, and I know you just used Pitt as an example...but my point is that you are overreacting.
All the quote means is that Ennis will start the year as our #1 center on paper. If Ruff does any matching, he will likely be sending Ott and his linemates out against other top lines.
Maybe, but I guess the point is then what did Ruff mean as "all-situations", because to me that means you put them in offensive and defensive situations, against any level of opposition, etc. I don't think you put Ennis in defensive situations yet. The end of game scenario is one example.
Ennis SHOULD have more offensive zone starts than defensive. And Ruff SHOULD try to get favorable matchups with him. He should not be an "all-situations" guy right now at this point in his career.
I'm sure, many times, Roy did play top lines. He had a fairly high QoC. I understand Goose got many of the tough matchups, as well, but Roy wasn't play hacks. We're likely going from Roy and Goose getting those matchups, to Ennis and Hodgson. That concerns me.
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I'm enthusiastic about the long-term landscape of our center situation after some of the moves since February. But I'm very concerned as of right now about our center situation this season.
Yes, the in the shorter term, this is a clear risk. And at the same time, it is going to force some of these guys to elevate themselves. The experience crucible may be good for the longer term but there will definitely be growing pains with the current roster as it is built.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Gerbe has looked good defensively. But again, small sample size(unrelated to Ennis discussion)... So to unequivocally state that you're 100% okay with Gerbe out in the last minute and not Ennis is something I won't do yet.
that's a completely accurate statement
Ennis is terrible defensively... seriously why is it so hard to to criticize the talent around here...
I suspect they're going to lean heavily on their defense and are pinning post-season hopes on the goaltending and defense being healthy for the year based on what happened this year.
Maybe, but I guess the point is then what did Ruff mean as "all-situations", because to me that means you put them in offensive and defensive situations, against any level of opposition, etc. I don't think you put Ennis in defensive situations yet. The end of game scenario is one example.
Ennis SHOULD have more offensive zone starts than defensive. And Ruff SHOULD try to get favorable matchups with him. He should not be an "all-situations" guy right now at this point in his career.
I want him to try. I want him to get better. And if he doesn't, it won't maintain. We are not trying to, nor built for, making a cup run this coming season. This year could and hopefully will be the year in which our two young centers develop to the point of being comfortable with them by the time we start the next one. And we aren't even ready for a cup then. But we'd be a hell of a lot closer. And that's what I'm in it for. For the first time, Ruff is stating something that, if works, would situate the team incredibly well for the future, and again, that's what I care about.
There is nothing to be had in Ruff's comments on July 10, 2012 that are worth crucifixion, though.
