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So why don't top FA's come to Canada?

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Old
07-11-2012, 05:28 AM
  #126
Qvist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOML View Post
That would be a plus, imo.


Here's the real reason though... They aren't allowed to under the Bettman regime.

He wants to expand the game in the US, right? Well, why would you want your proven, elite talent in Canada then?

Canada just gets the expensive washouts, the odd decent player, and the kids that'll all eventually move onto bigger things in the states. It's part of the reason why Canada won't be getting the cup back.

Canada had their time. Their fanbases are all established. There's no room to grow. So... Feed the markets that need the talent! It's a pretty fundamental approach to growing a sport, if indeed you don't alienate your existing fanbases. So far, so good. Cheers.


TOML
Yeah, makes sense, except you forgot the small part where you explain how Bettman actually and in real life terms manipulates hundreds of players, agents, family members and team executives into doing what he wants and not what they want. Without leaving a trace. Some guy, huh?

Conspiracy theory drivel.

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07-11-2012, 05:40 AM
  #127
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Another factor to consider is that most players in the NHL are from Canada: http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/natio...eer-stats.html

Is it that Canadians don't want to live/play in Canada and that taxes are too much? No, I highly doubt it. The reason why big name free agents don't sign with Canadian teams is because of several reasons already pointed out such as:

-Most of the teams in the NHL are American so obviously American teams are going to sign big free agents more often than Canadian teams
-A team that happens to be in the US offered more money

The list can go on and on, but it always depends on the player. You can be damn sure that it has nothing to do with taxes.

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07-11-2012, 06:53 AM
  #128
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The first three reasons are Taxes, taxes and taxes, as the federal, state and municipal taxes in the USA are typically 12-18 percent lower than similar Canadian rates.

Hockey is a national obsession in Canada. In America hockey players are minor celebrities, like high school football coaches or traffic reporters. Which is easier?

I think acother significant reason is that executives in Canada cannot fake out a beat reporter into writing that a forty year old once famous free agent is going to help a hockey team, no matter what you pay him.

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Old
07-11-2012, 08:44 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Because no Canadian teams are offering those ridiculous contracts.
This is also true, no Canadian team's GM has offered one of those massive front-loaded contracts.

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07-11-2012, 09:35 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inflict View Post
Another factor to consider is that most players in the NHL are from Canada: http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/natio...eer-stats.html

Is it that Canadians don't want to live/play in Canada and that taxes are too much? No, I highly doubt it. The reason why big name free agents don't sign with Canadian teams is because of several reasons already pointed out such as:

-Most of the teams in the NHL are American so obviously American teams are going to sign big free agents more often than Canadian teams
-A team that happens to be in the US offered more money

The list can go on and on, but it always depends on the player. You can be damn sure that it has nothing to do with taxes.
I think that if you are from small town Canada, it is the fact that you train to make it and get money and be in the show.

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07-11-2012, 09:39 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Justin Schultz?
After having lived 18 years in the US, sporadically in Canada, and 20 years in 7 other countries I am not sure.
Doubt it has much to do with crime, schools, taxes, political system (unless you are a goalie named Tim) or any other social factors that have been mentioned here as Canada in general (except - of course - regarding the weather) most likely has better odds of coming out on top in making a decision here. Not being overtly political, just stating some general statistical facts.
And Some young players might feel the awe to live in big city lights abroad ( mostly) with its glare and flair. Who can blame a kid from the plains of Saskatchewan (or Örnsköldsvik or Belarus for that matter) to want live in the fast lane under the bright lights of Broadway, especially being young, successful and single? And some "lower key" players maybe do not want to deal with the hype of being under the microscopic spotlight of the Canadian media.
It is - mostly - a monetary thing I believe. Simple. Follow the money trail to the biggest market. US has the $$$ ( or at least used to ). Except Toronto, of course, which instead has had a seriously mismanaged franchise for God knows how long? And Montreal maybe... But that is a special story, no?
As is competition to play on winning team an intangible many players may consider. Face it - Canadian teams have not been the best in the past 10 years. Which I personally find is a shame. But it is as is.
With half of the league + being from Canada, the urge to experience new things and places might have an appeal for some too. But mostly,as always, Mammon is King... And that is not going to change as long as it is " professional" sports. no?
This is what I'm trying to get at.

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07-11-2012, 09:40 AM
  #132
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My Thing is even before the lockout, it was like this, and now they still wont come.

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07-11-2012, 10:01 AM
  #133
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To the extent it's not just a coincidence, I can think of two main reasons:

1. Canadian teams are constantly over-paying mediocre talent, so they are often more cap crunched than some US teams. This makes it tough for those teams to make gigantic offers.

2. Canadian teams are generally bad teams. In recent years, only maybe 1-2 Canadian teams are above average, and 2 or 3 are amongst the league's absolute worst. While it's not impossible for terrible teams to sign UFAs (hey there Minnesota), it doesn't help.

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07-11-2012, 10:52 AM
  #134
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Personally, I respect a guy like Zach parise, who turned down a contender to go help turn his hometown team into contenders. Then you have Rick nash, who grew up and played minor in toronto and won;t even put the leafs on his list ,or any canadian team for that matter this thread really depresses me when I think of the sad state of my team

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07-11-2012, 11:14 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOML View Post
That would be a plus, imo.


Here's the real reason though... They aren't allowed to under the Bettman regime.

He wants to expand the game in the US, right? Well, why would you want your proven, elite talent in Canada then?

Canada just gets the expensive washouts, the odd decent player, and the kids that'll all eventually move onto bigger things in the states. It's part of the reason why Canada won't be getting the cup back.

Canada had their time. Their fanbases are all established. There's no room to grow. So... Feed the markets that need the talent! It's a pretty fundamental approach to growing a sport, if indeed you don't alienate your existing fanbases. So far, so good. Cheers.


TOML
Yeah okay....it's a big conspiracy against Canada, keep telling yourself that

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Old
07-11-2012, 11:46 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post

Canada can pick up lots of guys in the mid-to-good range, but we haven't seen a true elite guy come here yet, although Montreal has done pretty good with scorers.
Who do you have in this category?

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07-11-2012, 11:59 AM
  #137
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Well Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, winnipeg, Montreal didn't even make the playoffs and Ottawa snuck in. It's pretty simple, canadian hockey teams are terrible except Vancouver who plays in a pathetic division.

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07-11-2012, 12:04 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Hamhuis, JBo, Gonchar, Komisarek. Maybe they should go after the right ones.
Are you implying that going after Hamhuis was the wrong move? Because that would be very ignorant.

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07-11-2012, 12:09 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
I love how the first high profile player to play out his contract and sign with his hometown team is a first generation American. And now has gone so far to Americanize the pronunciation of his last name.

I always thought Crosby would do it. Oh well.

And now Rick Nash doesn't want to be traded to a Canadian team.

I admire Parise for doing it.....too bad Canadian players don't give a damn about their boyhood teams.
Umm... Just off the top of my head for the Canucks, both Hamhuis and Garrison took hometown discounts to come play.

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07-11-2012, 12:10 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by trytobe View Post
Umm... Just off the top of my head for the Canucks, both Hamhuis and Garrison took hometown discounts to come play.
TOP fa's

Hamuis is a union guy, nice guy. But he's second tier.

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07-11-2012, 12:12 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Winnipeg is a boring ice box

Calgary and Ottawa lack the extensive night life that's attractive to a 23/26 year old

Too much pressure to win on a crappy team in Toronto.

Lots of NHLers don't want to have to learn French so Montreal is out

Vancouver is out of the picture with cap constraints and nobody wants to play for a bunch of whining, cheating, divers.

Edmonton has picked 1st 3 years in a row. They have no D or goalie and unless youre a bottom 6 player you wont be getting any ice time. Edmonton is 4 years from even being cup contenders. Why sign there now?

-pissed off 7 fanbases...check
You should probably visit some of these places before running your mouth.

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07-11-2012, 12:13 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
This is epic.
and ignorant.

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07-11-2012, 12:26 PM
  #143
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i could imagine it has to do something with the media/pressure

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07-11-2012, 01:36 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by rogerroeper View Post
because no canadian teams are offering those ridiculous contracts.
luongo?

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07-11-2012, 01:50 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOML View Post
That would be a plus, imo.


Here's the real reason though... They aren't allowed to under the Bettman regime.

He wants to expand the game in the US, right? Well, why would you want your proven, elite talent in Canada then?

Canada just gets the expensive washouts, the odd decent player, and the kids that'll all eventually move onto bigger things in the states. It's part of the reason why Canada won't be getting the cup back.

Canada had their time. Their fanbases are all established. There's no room to grow. So... Feed the markets that need the talent! It's a pretty fundamental approach to growing a sport, if indeed you don't alienate your existing fanbases. So far, so good. Cheers.


TOML
First of all, that is absolutely ridiculous.

Secondly, italicizing doesn't make your argument legible at all. Bettman is not calling Nash or someone else on the other line, nixing a possible deal to a Canadian team.


Lastly, Komisarek, Beauchemin, Cammalleri, Gionta, Hamhuis, Garrison, Mitchell (pre-L.A. Kings), Bouwmeester, Schultz, etc. are players who were pretty sought-after, even if they weren't in the same tier as a Parise or Suter or Brad Richards, and they chose Canadian teams- teams that weren't necessarily great when they signed up (you can argue vis-a-vis Vancouver this off-season, but Garrison chose Vancouver for family reasons). So please tell us as to why did Bettman's regime "allow" the above signings to happen?

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07-11-2012, 02:01 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
My Thing is even before the lockout, it was like this, and now they still wont come.
That depends on what you consider as top-tier. Each UFA period has its own tier. Look at the 2009 UFA class here and tell me if Bouwmeester, Gionta, and Cammalleri would be classed as second-tier in this group. Bouwmeester was pretty sought-after as a stud d-man and Cams was coming off an 82 pt season. Just because they didn't pan out too well for their respective teams doesn't make them lower-tier UFAs. How well has Brad Richards done exactly since choosing NYR? Exactly.

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Old
07-11-2012, 02:28 PM
  #147
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There's more uS teams than Canadian probability they sign with US team is therefore higher.

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Old
07-12-2012, 10:54 AM
  #148
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For what it's worth, the Canadian teams have been fairly successful at keeping their top Free Agents. (Sedins, Luongo, Iginla, Kiprusoff, Sundin, etc.)

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Old
07-12-2012, 01:53 PM
  #149
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They teach the evil metric system in Canada and the imperial errr the "we can do it better bastardized American system" in the states.

Plus there's always the zee vs zed thing and the "U" thing in some words.

And we don't have as many gated communities here.



I'm sure Wayne is glad now he left Canada...his daughter is a real piece of work

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07-12-2012, 02:06 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
The first three reasons are Taxes, taxes and taxes, as the federal, state and municipal taxes in the USA are typically 12-18 percent lower than similar Canadian rates.

Hockey is a national obsession in Canada. In America hockey players are minor celebrities, like high school football coaches or traffic reporters. Which is easier?

I think acother significant reason is that executives in Canada cannot fake out a beat reporter into writing that a forty year old once famous free agent is going to help a hockey team, no matter what you pay him.
Actually your tax argument is incorrect. Taxes in Canada and the US are actually very close to one another when analyzed by experts. I don't know where you got your 12-18 % higher figure, but it is completely incorrect.

The problem with comparing them directly is that you have to take into account the services provided in return for the taxes. As one example, you either have to include buying insurance into the taxes of an average American, or remove the Universal Healthcare burden from the Canadian taxpayer to compare them.

I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, there's probably a greater difference in taxes between various US states than there is between the average taxes paid by a Canadian versus an American.

The one caveat I'd like to add is that taxes in Canada are more progressive, meaning people with high incomes like hockey players, are likely to pay more in Canada, while people making less income pay less, though the difference isn't huge.

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