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Old
07-12-2012, 04:39 PM
  #126
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
You really wanna bring up Philly? Okay let's compare their picks with Timmins from 2003 to 2007

Flyers
Jeff Carter
Mike Richards
Claude Giroux
Van Riensdyk
Steve Downie (thanks to watsatheo)

Habs
Price
Halak
McDon
Patches
Subban
Streit
Grabs
(Maybe) Emelin


That's only top end talent. Which pool would you take? Then when you throw in the middling talent. Timmins completely destroys the Flyers. They really have nothing after those 5 players.
See, again, my point was about PROVEN talent. And actual results. Giroux is a top 5 player in the league. Both Richards and Carter are great players with a Cup. Our list is made out of POTENTIAL that will soon crush not only the Flyers but the rest of the league. The Bruins also had some great drafting as well with also some proven players and a Cup as a end-result (I know, other players like Chara and Thomas played a huge part....) Yet, we can add Streit, Grabs in the proven record, but we can't say that they are at the level we just spoke about. I'd say Halak is but will be laughed at so I don't....Can say that McDo will be....but just like the others....that's potential we're talking about here with the real idea that it will indeed happen.

But I didn't bring Philly to proove that they drafted more quantity than us. They didn't. But their stars are proven stars. And on top of that, we would have been able to draft their stars. It's not like the Hawks or the Pens, they didn't go top 10. To have been able to get such stars so far in the 1st round has to be considered as something good. Yet, they failed everywhere else....I know. Not the point. I WOULD NOT trade Timmins with anybody else. But a guy with his knowledge and all of his great moves would need to be better in the 1st round. We all like Leblanc, Tinordi and Beaulieu. They will be good players, I'm a Beaulieu fan. But it is also possible that they do not happen to be the best players of that round chosen after. What is strange is that Timmins is totally able to pick the best player out of any other round but maybe not the first. Yet, 2005 and 2007 might change all this. Though Kopitar vs Price. Pacioretty for Perron. At least, we might have a top 5 for those years. And it remains to be seen for 2009-2011. My point is that a guy that can constantly hit homeruns in other rounds like you just demonstrated, should be able to hit them as well in the 1st. He's on his way to prove it for 2005. On his way to prove it for 2007. No doubt he will. Just not at the level of Giroux, Carter and Richards were RIGHT NOW. Though for Carter, his star faded for a while....some might not see him as "proven".....yet, playing an important role on a cup run, has to count for something.

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07-12-2012, 05:09 PM
  #127
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Pretty sure Timmins always drafted prospects with good to great potential, it's just that he didn't have enough time to scout, AND develop those said players. Or it wasn't his 'forte'. Now with Lapointe and Brisebois, I'm pretty sure we might see 'star' players in the near future, other than Price, Subban and Pacioretty.

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07-12-2012, 05:33 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
On his way to prove it for 2007. No doubt he will. Just not at the level of Giroux, Carter and Richards were RIGHT NOW. Though for Carter, his star faded for a while....some might not see him as "proven".....yet, playing an important role on a cup run, has to count for something.
I'm a big proponent of building from the net out but i also believe you need strength down the middle. That's it with the cliches.

So for me Price is the most valuable player of the two teams - even more valuable than Giroux. Just think what a Roy, Brodeur, Thomas, Quick, Miller can do for an average team.

Then you have Halak. For argument sakes I'd say he's below Giroux but on par with Carter and maybe just below Richards.

After that Timmins picked up two elite if not superstar d-men. What did Bergevin say when he was given the job? You never have enough d-men and I would like to add you never have enough elite d-men. After that he gets you an excellent PMD, a top notch powerforward and an excellent 2nd centerman.

Van Reimsdyk has issues and Downie is a serviceable player.

So for Philly you have three studs

Richards, Giroux, and a borderline Carter.

Timmins has Price, Subban, Patches. I'd give the slight edge to Philly..

But you still have McDonagh, Halak, Streit, and Grabs. If we had a decent GM instead of the two monkeys who threw dodo at themselves, we could have converted those last four players into a stud comparable to a Giroux. McDonagh & Halak are elite players; Streit & Grabs are excellent players.

Honestly, I wouldn't trade Timmins for any head scout in the league. TT & his staff are second to none. I'd compare his record with any other team in the league.

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Old
07-12-2012, 05:37 PM
  #129
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Timmins is one of the best scout, maybe the best in the business. He just got screwed by the crappy management that the Habs had for the last 10 years.

He got shot down in 2003 by Andre Savard who prefered Kostitsyn to Jeff Carter and he got over-ruled by a western scout in 2006 who prefered and convinced Bob Gainey to pick David Fisher over Claude Giroux. In 2008, Timmins pick would have been John Carlson if they didnt trade for that softy Tanguay. And let's just say that the Habs never traded for Gomez. Here is what the Habs would look like if they kept all their picks :

2003 - Jeff Carter
2004 - Kyle Chipchura
2005 - Carey Price
2006 - Claude Giroux
2007 - Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty, P. K. Subban
2008 - John Carlson
2009 - Louis Leblanc

That is one All-Star team we would have.

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07-12-2012, 05:44 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Habs8517 View Post
Timmins is one of the best scout, maybe the best in the business. He just got screwed by the crappy management that the Habs had for the last 10 years.

He got shot down in 2003 by Andre Savard who prefered Kostitsyn to Jeff Carter and he got over-ruled by a western scout in 2006 who prefered and convinced Bob Gainey to pick David Fisher over Claude Giroux. In 2008, Timmins pick would have been John Carlson if they didnt trade for that softy Tanguay. And let's just say that the Habs never traded for Gomez. Here is what the Habs would look like if they kept all their picks :

2003 - Jeff Carter
2004 - Kyle Chipchura
2005 - Carey Price
2006 - Claude Giroux
2007 - Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty, P. K. Subban
2008 - John Carlson
2009 - Louis Leblanc

That is one All-Star team we would have.
This is a holy smokes, but what are your sources ?

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07-12-2012, 05:46 PM
  #131
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last round player argument

2003-2012 TOP 10 last round player

Jaroslav Halak
Mark Streit
Matt Moulson
David Jones
Sergei Kostitsyn
Patric Hörnqvist
Brian Elliott
Jason Demers
Carl Gunnarsson
Anders Lindbäck

MTL 3
DET 0

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Old
07-12-2012, 05:46 PM
  #132
Watsatheo
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I also like how the Wings picked Thomas McCollum 1 pick before Markstrom and 3 picks before Jake Allen. Apples to apples here people as they had their choice between these three goalies.

Or....there is the 2009 draft where they took Landon Ferraro and with the next pick Colorado took Ryan O'Reilly.

I am aware that every scout makes mistakes but this fallacy about the Detroit staff having some sort of sixth sense is both laughable and easily disproven. They are in fact among the worst scouting departments in the NHL.
Ignoring their current nice crop of prospects, Smith+Nyquist who look to be on the verge of making a name for themselves, and their picks post-Z that are currently NHL regulars with over 200 games:

29. Niklas Kronwall - Top Pairing D / ~40pts
38. Tomas Kopecky - 3rd line W / 30-40pts
42. Justin Abdelkader - 3rd/4th line W
47. Shawn Matthias - 3rd/4th line C
58. Jiri Hudler - 2 line W / 50-60pts
63. Tomas Fleischmann - 2nd line W / 60+pts
64. Jim Howard - Starting G
95. Valtteri Filppula - 2nd line C / 60+pts
97. Johan Franzen -1st line W / ~30g, ~60pts
132. Darren Helm - 3rd line C / 30+pts
132. Kyle Quincey - top 4 D
291. Jonathan Ericsson - 5/6 D

Sure, no Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Lidstrom but let's not get carried away here.

EDIT:

Lineup with NHL regulars from last season Wings drafted after Zetterberg...

Johan Franzen - Valtteri Filppula - Tomas Fleischmann
Jiri Hudler - Darren Helm - Tomas Kopecky
Cory Emmerton - Shawn Matthias - Justin Abdelkader

Niklas Kronwall - Kyle Quincey
Jonathan Ericsson - Jakub Kindl

Jim Howard

I think this is where the phrase 'haters gonna hate' would fit.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 07-12-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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Old
07-12-2012, 05:55 PM
  #133
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Obviously too many Hab draft choices didn't blossom in Montréal despite signs of talent that developed elsewhere once they left. There's no denying it. It's not a simple matter of size, since big ones as well as small fell into a hole once they arrived.

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Old
07-12-2012, 06:15 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I think this is where the phrase 'haters gonna hate' would fit.
half were draft before 2003

Franzen Helm Abdelkader
Matthias Emmerton Mursak
Tatar Ritola Nyquist
Jurco Sheahan Pulkkinen
Jarnkrok Andersson

Quincey Kindl
Brendan Smith
Logan Ouellet
Sproul Pyett
Backman

Howard
McCollum

Pacioretty Grabovski Kostitsyn
Kostitsyn Galchenyuk Latendresse
D'Agostini Leblanc Gallagher
White Chipchura Lapierre
Collberg Kristo

McDonagh Subban
Streit Emelin
Beaulieu O'Byrne
Tinordi

Price
Halak

I think this is where the phrase 'haters gonna hate' would fit.

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07-12-2012, 06:24 PM
  #135
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pled View Post
half were draft before 2003

Franzen Helm Abdelkader
Matthias Emmerton Mursak
Tatar Ritola Nyquist
Jurco Sheahan Pulkkinen
Jarnkrok Andersson

Quincey Kindl
Brendan Smith
Logan Ouellet
Sproul Pyett
Backman

Howard
McCollum

Pacioretty Grabovski Kostitsyn
Kostitsyn Galchenyuk Latendresse
D'Agostini Leblanc Gallagher
White Chipchura Lapierre
Collberg Kristo

McDonagh Subban
Streit Emelin
Beaulieu O'Byrne
Tinordi

Price
Halak

I think this is where the phrase 'haters gonna hate' would fit.
Would be a great point if you hadn't missed that I was responding to a poster that said "They are in fact among the worst scouting departments in the NHL." and "This is basically what I am saying. Datsyuk and Zetterberg WERE FLUKES......end of story!". Pretty much all their current draftees that are NHL regulars (Kronwall was 29th overall) post Datsyuk and Zetterberg were drafted outside the 1st round.

But yes I agree, Habs draft quite well.

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07-12-2012, 06:33 PM
  #136
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
This is a holy smokes, but what are your sources ?
I believe Grant McCagg may have mentioned the Carlson one but I'm not 100% sure.

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07-12-2012, 06:42 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Habs8517 View Post
Timmins is one of the best scout, maybe the best in the business. He just got screwed by the crappy management that the Habs had for the last 10 years.

He got shot down in 2003 by Andre Savard who prefered Kostitsyn to Jeff Carter and he got over-ruled by a western scout in 2006 who prefered and convinced Bob Gainey to pick David Fisher over Claude Giroux. In 2008, Timmins pick would have been John Carlson if they didnt trade for that softy Tanguay. And let's just say that the Habs never traded for Gomez. Here is what the Habs would look like if they kept all their picks :

2003 - Jeff Carter
2004 - Kyle Chipchura
2005 - Carey Price
2006 - Claude Giroux
2007 - Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty, P. K. Subban
2008 - John Carlson
2009 - Louis Leblanc

That is one All-Star team we would have.
I am a huge Timmins fan, always have been , but I must make a couple corrections, It was Savard who actually had a ***** for Carter, but was overruled, as he was in '05 when his choice was Kopitar rather than Price & I believe he subsequently joined the Penguins the following season & was not a part of the '06 Habs draft team.

Maybe


Last edited by Uwey: 07-12-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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07-12-2012, 06:51 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs8517 View Post
Timmins is one of the best scout, maybe the best in the business. He just got screwed by the crappy management that the Habs had for the last 10 years.

He got shot down in 2003 by Andre Savard who prefered Kostitsyn to Jeff Carter and he got over-ruled by a western scout in 2006 who prefered and convinced Bob Gainey to pick David Fisher over Claude Giroux. In 2008, Timmins pick would have been John Carlson if they didnt trade for that softy Tanguay. And let's just say that the Habs never traded for Gomez. Here is what the Habs would look like if they kept all their picks :

2003 - Jeff Carter
2004 - Kyle Chipchura
2005 - Carey Price
2006 - Claude Giroux
2007 - Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty, P. K. Subban
2008 - John Carlson
2009 - Louis Leblanc

That is one All-Star team we would have.
That saddens me to know that about Giroux, if true. He would have been an amaaaazing hab.

Maybe Galchenyuk will be better

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Old
07-12-2012, 07:02 PM
  #139
Vasculio
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Originally Posted by Uwey View Post
I am a huge Timmins fan, always have been , but I must make a couple corrections, It was Savard who actually had a ***** for Carter, but was overruled, as he was in '05 when his choice was Kopitar rather than Price & I believe he subsequently joined the Penguins the following season & was not a part of the '06 Habs draft team.

Maybe
Yup, he wanted Carter badly, and afterwards, he just didn't have a whole lot to say about anything, prospect wise, which is sad IMO, he had a good eye for talent. But well, I'm perfectly fine with Timmins.

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07-12-2012, 07:41 PM
  #140
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I was gonna go to bed, but damn good point. I buy that. That's a lot better than just posting saying I'm embarrassing myself...
Almost a completely irrelevant point. Getting a guy like dats that late was pure luck. Sure they liked his skillset for that selection, but if Detroits scout knew he was that good, they never would of passed on him themselves a bunch of times and if it was a skill, surely to god they would have done something draft wise over the past decade.

TT blows Detroit away, he blows Philly away, he blows em all way and did it with middle of the road selections every year, typically drafting lower than 16th, because the habs have always been a fringe playoff team.

He stands above the rest and it's really not close. It's too bad his superiors pissed every advantage he created away.

He's so good, the habs will be top 5-10 again after having many graduates and fallen to the bottom of the league, TT should be our head scout until he no longer wants to be, he is simply the best.

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07-12-2012, 09:25 PM
  #141
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs8517 View Post
Timmins is one of the best scout, maybe the best in the business. He just got screwed by the crappy management that the Habs had for the last 10 years.

He got shot down in 2003 by Andre Savard who prefered Kostitsyn to Jeff Carter and he got over-ruled by a western scout in 2006 who prefered and convinced Bob Gainey to pick David Fisher over Claude Giroux. In 2008, Timmins pick would have been John Carlson if they didnt trade for that softy Tanguay. And let's just say that the Habs never traded for Gomez. Here is what the Habs would look like if they kept all their picks :

2003 - Jeff Carter
2004 - Kyle Chipchura
2005 - Carey Price
2006 - Claude Giroux
2007 - Ryan McDonagh, Max Pacioretty, P. K. Subban
2008 - John Carlson
2009 - Louis Leblanc

That is one All-Star team we would have.
Well, it is about the total opposite. Savard was furious about the Kostitsyn pick. Kostitsyn was totally Timmins call. And that scout in 2006 didn't convince Gainey...he convinced Timmins. Timmins was really fine with that Fischer pick. And I can say, for sure, that Timmins was not exactly a big Giroux fan. Even if Fischer isn't his pick, I would not bet that Giroux would have been our pick after all. There's more possibilities that Berglund would have been ours or maybe somebody else. As far as 2008 is concerned, we don't know. Going with Carlson is stricly an educated guess as he does represent the type of guy Timmins would go for. And we never know, it might have been his man. Yet, "rumor" is that he liked the same guy that I did.....and it might not have turned to be the right choice after all....Nicolas Deschamps. I'm still stunned to see his lack of progress. But did fine in the Marlies playoffs. Had a good regular season run with them as well. We'll see if he's about to crack the Leafs lineup. But I thought he'd be MUCH more advance than that. But then, that rumor is just what it is. Nobody knows for sure who he would have gone for.

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07-13-2012, 03:00 AM
  #142
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No i think I get it quite clearly.

I'd rather draft the top end talent and sign or trade for the easier, cheaper to attain 2nd to 4th line players. You'd apparently would rather build a team by drafting 2nd to 4th liners and then try to sign or trade for the harder to get and more expensive top end talent. If that makes sense to you, then so be it.
christ almighty.... you're so dense, light bends around you

there's two ways to draft what you called 'top end talent'. pick early, or get lucky that nobody else notice this rough diamond and hope they slip to the point where you can pick them.

'I'd rather draft the top end talent' really? give this man a nobel prize! and here i thought the way to win was avoid top end talent and draft a bunch of plugs! thank you for enlightening me

waa waa waa timmins never drafted stars.... subban, price, pacioretty, mcdonaugh and hopefully soon, galchenyuk

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07-13-2012, 03:57 AM
  #143
Uwey
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Yup, he wanted Carter badly, and afterwards, he just didn't have a whole lot to say about anything, prospect wise, which is sad IMO, he had a good eye for talent. But well, I'm perfectly fine with Timmins.
But it was he who had brought Timmins into the organization, I believe the year before he turned over the reigns to Gainey, whom which he had worked successfully with in Ottawa for for several years, unearthing gems like Alfredsson. I also believe, Savard did not believe in hiring a guy like Timmins, then overturning his decisions. That said, I also believe the two grew apart philosophy wise a the years progressed & under Gainey, who had inherited Timmins from Savard's tenure, also believed he should let his head scout make the draft decisions based on his knowledge of the prospects.

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07-13-2012, 05:22 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
christ almighty.... you're so dense, light bends around you
there's two ways to draft what you called 'top end talent'. pick early, or get lucky that nobody else notice this rough diamond and hope they slip to the point where you can pick them.

'I'd rather draft the top end talent' really? give this man a nobel prize! and here i thought the way to win was avoid top end talent and draft a bunch of plugs! thank you for enlightening me

waa waa waa timmins never drafted stars.... subban, price, pacioretty, mcdonaugh and hopefully soon, galchenyuk
Love it!

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07-13-2012, 06:51 AM
  #145
Gabe84
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
christ almighty.... you're so dense, light bends around you

there's two ways to draft what you called 'top end talent'. pick early, or get lucky that nobody else notice this rough diamond and hope they slip to the point where you can pick them.

'I'd rather draft the top end talent' really? give this man a nobel prize! and here i thought the way to win was avoid top end talent and draft a bunch of plugs! thank you for enlightening me

waa waa waa timmins never drafted stars.... subban, price, pacioretty, mcdonaugh and hopefully soon, galchenyuk
It's impossible to argue against a tangent like that. There will always be something.

"Galchenyuk doesn't count, he was an obvious choice at 3."

I'm starting to believe that even if we had drafted Kopitar instead of Price, some would nit pick it and say that Kopitar isn't really a superstar because he's had over 80 points only once in his career, that he's too streaky, etc.

Those who understand that Timmins hasn't had the best tools to work with--picks traded away, mostly late first rounders, scouting team trimmed when PG was around--can appreciate the work he has done.

Those who don't like him will always point out that there was a better player available, and even if we had drafted that player instead, would prefer another one for different reasons.

Timmins isn't without reproach. He's human. But he's a very good head scout. One of the best in the business. If you truly understand how scouting and drafting works, you should hope he isn't replaced, because the odds that we'd find someone better are slim.

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07-13-2012, 09:50 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Ignoring their current nice crop of prospects, Smith+Nyquist who look to be on the verge of making a name for themselves, and their picks post-Z that are currently NHL regulars with over 200 games:

29. Niklas Kronwall - Top Pairing D / ~40pts
38. Tomas Kopecky - 3rd line W / 30-40pts
42. Justin Abdelkader - 3rd/4th line W
47. Shawn Matthias - 3rd/4th line C
58. Jiri Hudler - 2 line W / 50-60pts
63. Tomas Fleischmann - 2nd line W / 60+pts
64. Jim Howard - Starting G
95. Valtteri Filppula - 2nd line C / 60+pts
97. Johan Franzen -1st line W / ~30g, ~60pts
132. Darren Helm - 3rd line C / 30+pts
132. Kyle Quincey - top 4 D
291. Jonathan Ericsson - 5/6 D

Sure, no Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Lidstrom but let's not get carried away here.

EDIT:

Lineup with NHL regulars from last season Wings drafted after Zetterberg...

Johan Franzen - Valtteri Filppula - Tomas Fleischmann
Jiri Hudler - Darren Helm - Tomas Kopecky
Cory Emmerton - Shawn Matthias - Justin Abdelkader

Niklas Kronwall - Kyle Quincey
Jonathan Ericsson - Jakub Kindl

Jim Howard

I think this is where the phrase 'haters gonna hate' would fit.
Everything is relative my friend. That is a pathetic haul for a 13 year span. You won't find many teams with a worse collection of drafted players from 2000-2012. So yes.....they are terrible at the draft table.

They have a "current nice group of prospects"????? really?!? Once again, compare their prospects to other NHL teams, it is easily among the worst.

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07-13-2012, 10:07 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Everything is relative my friend. That is a pathetic haul for a 13 year span. You won't find many teams with a worse collection of drafted players from 2000-2012. So yes.....they are terrible at the draft table.

They have a "current nice group of prospects"????? really?!? Once again, compare their prospects to other NHL teams, it is easily among the worst.
It's the "aura" of the red-wings. Because they produced Lidstrom, Fedorov, Datsyuk, Zetterberg etc. it's expected that they will do something with all these talented, but raw as **** prospects.

As a red wings fan, you don't have to be realistic. All things are possible! You can expect to sign every big name free agent, and who cares if you don't have any top picks. Pulkkinen is going to be the next brett hull!

Meanwhile, the second we get Galchenyuk, "yeah..60 point center." Check out the realistic predictions thread. Not one star out of Galchenyuk is projected for us. Yet somehow the red wings are going to replace Zetterberg and Datsyuk and Lidstrom from their current crop....

It's going to be very interesting to see where the chips land.

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07-13-2012, 10:37 AM
  #148
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Everything is relative my friend. That is a pathetic haul for a 13 year span. You won't find many teams with a worse collection of drafted players from 2000-2012. So yes.....they are terrible at the draft table.

They have a "current nice group of prospects"????? really?!? Once again, compare their prospects to other NHL teams, it is easily among the worst.
How is it a "pathetic haul for a 13 year span"?

How many other teams have drafted FOUR 60+ point forwards and starting goalie outside the 1st round in those years?

Here's a link to some draft histories:

Wings: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005492.html

Ignoring the lottery top 3 picks, teams that IMO have produced worse current NHL regulars from that same span of 2000 - 2012:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00008490.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00007085.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005316.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005632.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00006879.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00010675.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00008385.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005763.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00007450.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00007066.html
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005154.html

That's 12 with me ignoring some arguable teams. You should really glance over some other team draft records before saying things like, "pathetic haul for a 13 year span".

As for prospects, there is no way for me to 100% disprove your claim that they are "easily among the worst" since it'd only be linking you towards other people's opinion, stats relative to peers, and prospect rating sites. It's just projections. I'm not sure what makes you say that, since you've yet to provide anything of the sorts, but I guess we'll see as soon as next season when Brendan Smith and Gustav Nyqvist become full time NHLers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
It's the "aura" of the red-wings. Because they produced Lidstrom, Fedorov, Datsyuk, Zetterberg etc. it's expected that they will do something with all these talented, but raw as **** prospects.

As a red wings fan, you don't have to be realistic. All things are possible! You can expect to sign every big name free agent, and who cares if you don't have any top picks. Pulkkinen is going to be the next brett hull!

Meanwhile, the second we get Galchenyuk, "yeah..60 point center." Check out the realistic predictions thread. Not one star out of Galchenyuk is projected for us. Yet somehow the red wings are going to replace Zetterberg and Datsyuk and Lidstrom from their current crop....

It's going to be very interesting to see where the chips land.
I'm not even taking about Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.

58. Jiri Hudler
63. Tomas Fleischmann
64. Jim Howard
95. Valtteri Filppula
97. Johan Franzen

All 5 proven NHLers drafted mid rounds and drafted after the famous bunch. Perhaps people don't realize that Filppula had 66 points last season or Fleischmann had 61 points last season. Hudler had 25 goals and 50 points last season and has put up 57 points a few seasons back. Their prospect pool rating is subjective so I won't argue it since there is nothing 100% certain, but it's not fair to ignore the NHL regular they've drafted outside of the hall of famer types.

Wings will never get a chance to get a Galchenyuk or Yakupov or Murray. They've have their misses but the amount of diminishing that they are getting in this thread is ridiculous IMO.

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Old
07-13-2012, 11:10 AM
  #149
Whitesnake
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Strange that the Habs have the luxury to use the "but we don't pick top 5" real excuse but the Wings can't....And during the 2003-2012 era, Wings have had 4 freakin 1st rounders. So yeah....they are not the best.....but they also have real excuses as for the lack of success.

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Old
07-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #150
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well, it is about the total opposite. Savard was furious about the Kostitsyn pick. Kostitsyn was totally Timmins call. And that scout in 2006 didn't convince Gainey...he convinced Timmins. Timmins was really fine with that Fischer pick. And I can say, for sure, that Timmins was not exactly a big Giroux fan. Even if Fischer isn't his pick, I would not bet that Giroux would have been our pick after all. There's more possibilities that Berglund would have been ours or maybe somebody else. As far as 2008 is concerned, we don't know. Going with Carlson is stricly an educated guess as he does represent the type of guy Timmins would go for. And we never know, it might have been his man. Yet, "rumor" is that he liked the same guy that I did.....and it might not have turned to be the right choice after all....Nicolas Deschamps. I'm still stunned to see his lack of progress. But did fine in the Marlies playoffs. Had a good regular season run with them as well. We'll see if he's about to crack the Leafs lineup. But I thought he'd be MUCH more advance than that. But then, that rumor is just what it is. Nobody knows for sure who he would have gone for.

He liked Deschamps, as did I, but Carlson would have been his pick. He had him in his top 12. It's not a guess either.

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