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Old
07-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #151
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
He liked Deschamps, as did I, but Carlson would have been his pick. He had him in his top 12. It's not a guess either.
Don't worry. When you come in with infos, I'm not amongst the ones who will doubt you. So great. Another reason to bash Gainey the GM as if I needed more. But I knew about Deschamps 'cause he talked to me about it and I was pleased to see that we had the same guy in mind. Everytime I have a chance to talk him during development camps, I never hesitate and he's fairly available. Carlson was also on my radar but I thought Deschamps was going to be something else. But you never know until you are at the draft table. But those big and mobile d-men, you never have enough of them.


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07-13-2012, 11:49 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I'm not even taking about Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc.

58. Jiri Hudler
63. Tomas Fleischmann
64. Jim Howard
95. Valtteri Filppula
97. Johan Franzen

All 5 proven NHLers drafted mid rounds and drafted after the famous bunch. Perhaps people don't realize that Filppula had 66 points last season or Fleischmann had 61 points last season. Hudler had 25 goals and 50 points last season and has put up 57 points a few seasons back. Their prospect pool rating is subjective so I won't argue it since there is nothing 100% certain, but it's not fair to ignore the NHL regular they've drafted outside of the hall of famer types.

Wings will never get a chance to get a Galchenyuk or Yakupov or Murray. They've have their misses but the amount of diminishing that they are getting in this thread is ridiculous IMO.
You are basing your argument on not only just point totals, but point totals in career years to date. That's just silly. Every one of those players except Howard, and possibly Franzen are complimentary players. Is it your guess that these players are going to average that level of performance in the future?

I don't see it. I think they'll be 40 or so point players on the average after it's said and done.

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07-13-2012, 11:55 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Don't worry. When you come in with infos, I'm not amongst the ones who will doubt you. So great. Another reason to bash Gainey the GM as if I needed more. But I knew about Deschamps 'cause he talked to me about it and I was pleased to see that we had the same guy in mind. Everytime I have a chance to talk him during development camps, I never hesitate and he's fairly available. Carlson was also on my radar but I thought Deschamps was going to be something else. But you never know until you are at the draft table. But those big and mobile d-men, you never have enough of them.
We traded a late 1st and 2nd for Tanguay. Sure, he did not stay, but to this day, he'd still be our most talented forward. Guy has slick skills and actually produces. The only problem was he was soft and didn't fit in as well as we'd like. I have no problem with that trade, it was the 100th anniversary and we were loading up. Everything in context matters. That being said, having Carlson right now would be pretty damn awesome.

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07-13-2012, 11:56 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Everything is relative my friend. That is a pathetic haul for a 13 year span. You won't find many teams with a worse collection of drafted players from 2000-2012. So yes.....they are terrible at the draft table.

They have a "current nice group of prospects"????? really?!? Once again, compare their prospects to other NHL teams, it is easily among the worst.
hfboards is a part of a website called hockey future, on this website there is a team rankings

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-ra...11-2012/page/2

16 is not easily among the worst, they are not the best but definitely not the worst.

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07-13-2012, 12:01 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
We traded a late 1st and 2nd for Tanguay. Sure, he did not stay, but to this day, he'd still be our most talented forward. Guy has slick skills and actually produces. The only problem was he was soft and didn't fit in as well as we'd like. I have no problem with that trade, it was the 100th anniversary and we were loading up. Everything in context matters. That being said, having Carlson right now would be pretty damn awesome.
I was against the trade for Tanguay and I'm still negative about it. I agree that he was soft...and timid.

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07-13-2012, 12:04 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
See, again, my point was about PROVEN talent. And actual results. Giroux is a top 5 player in the league. Both Richards and Carter are great players with a Cup. Our list is made out of POTENTIAL that will soon crush not only the Flyers but the rest of the league. The Bruins also had some great drafting as well with also some proven players and a Cup as a end-result (I know, other players like Chara and Thomas played a huge part....) Yet, we can add Streit, Grabs in the proven record, but we can't say that they are at the level we just spoke about. I'd say Halak is but will be laughed at so I don't....Can say that McDo will be....but just like the others....that's potential we're talking about here with the real idea that it will indeed happen.

But I didn't bring Philly to proove that they drafted more quantity than us. They didn't. But their stars are proven stars. And on top of that, we would have been able to draft their stars. It's not like the Hawks or the Pens, they didn't go top 10. To have been able to get such stars so far in the 1st round has to be considered as something good. Yet, they failed everywhere else....I know. Not the point. I WOULD NOT trade Timmins with anybody else. But a guy with his knowledge and all of his great moves would need to be better in the 1st round. We all like Leblanc, Tinordi and Beaulieu. They will be good players, I'm a Beaulieu fan. But it is also possible that they do not happen to be the best players of that round chosen after. What is strange is that Timmins is totally able to pick the best player out of any other round but maybe not the first. Yet, 2005 and 2007 might change all this. Though Kopitar vs Price. Pacioretty for Perron. At least, we might have a top 5 for those years. And it remains to be seen for 2009-2011. My point is that a guy that can constantly hit homeruns in other rounds like you just demonstrated, should be able to hit them as well in the 1st. He's on his way to prove it for 2005. On his way to prove it for 2007. No doubt he will. Just not at the level of Giroux, Carter and Richards were RIGHT NOW. Though for Carter, his star faded for a while....some might not see him as "proven".....yet, playing an important role on a cup run, has to count for something.
Not that i strictly disagree about the fact that our picks are still players with potential rather than actual achievements, its quite unfair, for me, to compare the achievements done by players drafted in 2003, (Carter and Richards) and players (Subban, Pacioretty and McDonagh) drafted 4 years later.

(Not to mention that to make it even tougher to compare the players, Philadelphia's are forwards when only one of the four great picks Timmins made is.)

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07-13-2012, 12:06 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I was against the trade for Tanguay and I'm still negative about it. I agree that he was soft...and timid.
I don't blame you either, just saying, considering the context, it changes the perspective a bit. We finished 1st in conference then added Lang and Tanguay along with progression of our young players. The idea was we'd be competing for the cup that year and potentially win. It made a late 1st seem insignificant in the realistic pursuit of #25.

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07-13-2012, 12:09 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
You are basing your argument on not only just point totals, but point totals in career years to date. That's just silly. Every one of those players except Howard, and possibly Franzen are complimentary players. Is it your guess that these players are going to average that level of performance in the future?

I don't see it. I think they'll be 40 or so point players on the average after it's said and done.
What are you looking for then...name value/reputation? If you look at recent numbers and icetime, those 5 have all played significant roles on their team (expect maybe Hudler). Fleischmann just lead a playoff (lol) team in goals and points. Filppula's 66 was 3 points behind Zetterberg for 3rd in scoring...on a playoff team. We'll see how Hudler does with an expanded role on the Flames.

It's your opinion but I think you're selling these guys way too short. Granted, it does give a better picture where this general feeling the Wings haven't done anything since Zetterberg/Datsyuk/etc is coming from.

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07-13-2012, 12:20 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I don't blame you either, just saying, considering the context, it changes the perspective a bit. We finished 1st in conference then added Lang and Tanguay along with progression of our young players. The idea was we'd be competing for the cup that year and potentially win. It made a late 1st seem insignificant in the realistic pursuit of #25.
It wasn't realistic though. It was like investing in a stock because it had gone up, or momentum buying. Probably the biggest reason for the stellar results of that regular season was the total lack of injuries, and Kovalev gone mad. Neither of those could reasonably have been expected to continue through ~20-25 games of playoff hockey.

The move hurts in context. Had we kept McDonagh and Higgins, got something for Ribeiro and Grabo, not traded several other seconds away for help now that was again not re-signed, or had we re-signed Tanguay, it wouldn't be bad. It would've been one gamble, and an arguable one. But we did do all those other things.

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07-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
What are you looking for then...name value/reputation? If you look at recent numbers and icetime, those 5 have all played significant roles on their team (expect maybe Hudler). Fleischmann just lead a playoff (lol) team in goals and points. Filppula's 66 was 3 points behind Zetterberg for 3rd in scoring...on a playoff team. We'll see how Hudler does with an expanded role on the Flames.

It's your opinion but I think you're selling these guys way too short. Granted, it does give a better picture where this general feeling the Wings haven't done anything since Zetterberg/Datsyuk/etc is coming from.
Well, I don't think it's terrible drafting. To make my position clearer, I have more of a problem with the perception of the wings than I do with their actual prospect pool, or drafting. It's decent/good. But reading an article by Corey Pronman, he put their prospect pool 3rd in the league, and the habs 10th. And his argument made no sense. He said "the wings have several well above average players in their pool." He then said "the habs have added elite offensive potential." Are you ****ing kidding me? Lots of well-above average is better than having guys with realistic, if not expected, first line potential?

Wings homerism catches a lot less **** around here than any other team.

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07-13-2012, 12:35 PM
  #161
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It wasn't realistic though. It was like investing in a stock because it had gone up, or momentum buying. Probably the biggest reason for the stellar results of that regular season was the total lack of injuries, and Kovalev gone mad. Neither of those could reasonably have been expected to continue through ~20-25 games of playoff hockey.

The move hurts in context. Had we kept McDonagh and Higgins, got something for Ribeiro and Grabo, not traded several other seconds away for help now that was again not re-signed, or had we re-signed Tanguay, it wouldn't be bad. It would've been one gamble, and an arguable one. But we did do all those other things.
I don't see how you can say that. In fact, in the season prior when he were 1st in conference, kovalev had 84 points, compared to 65 the centenial year.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Half the team regressed. In the centenial, we lost quite a few guys to injury including Lang, which cemented a fail of the season afterwards. The pressure was immense, the drama was even greater than the usual montreal scene. It was pretty nuts, still, look at the team it's still a solid line up.

Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
Higgins-Koivu-Tanguay
Latendresse-Lang-Kostitsyn
Kostopoulos-Lapierre-Metropolit
BGL, Pacioretty, D'agostini, Chipchura, etc...

Markov-Komisarek
Schneider-Hamrlik
Gorges-Boullion
Brisebois, O'byrne

Price/Halak

Granted, the D wasn't perfect but Hamrlik was a rock back then, Komisarek still good, Markov not injured and so on. We had a pretty good team, we just failed. I don't see how it's unreasonable to suggest we were legit contenders that year until we just succumb to pressure, injuries and bad years.

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07-13-2012, 12:56 PM
  #162
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Woops, had my timeline wrong. Maw bad. I had thought we traded Tanguay for the 2008 playoffs.

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07-13-2012, 01:04 PM
  #163
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Well, I don't think it's terrible drafting. To make my position clearer, I have more of a problem with the perception of the wings than I do with their actual prospect pool, or drafting. It's decent/good. But reading an article by Corey Pronman, he put their prospect pool 3rd in the league, and the habs 10th. And his argument made no sense. He said "the wings have several well above average players in their pool." He then said "the habs have added elite offensive potential." Are you ****ing kidding me? Lots of well-above average is better than having guys with realistic, if not expected, first line potential?

Wings homerism catches a lot less **** around here than any other team.
Well, who outside Galchenyuk do we have with "realistic, if not expected, first line potential"? I don't agree with Pronman's ranking of #3 but it's his opinion based on his own ranking system which he presents in a fairly open manner. Just because he ranked them #3 doesn't mean you can ignore that they do have a nice group. I thought they cleaned house in 2011.

Ignoring some lesser known guys like Tvrdon for now, Tomas Jurco, Xavier Ouellet, Ryan Sproul all improved their production from their draft year significantly. Martin Frk and Jake Paterson (ranked #3 NA goalie) look like nice adds from 2012 too. Calle Jarnkrok, Riley Sheahan, Teemu Pulkkinen, Petr Mrazek from 2010 all improved with guys shinning at the WJCs (especially Mrazek winning best goalie). Then there's Tomas Tatar, Gustav Nyquist, Brendan Smith who each look like legit top 6/top 4 upside prospects. I'd be thrilled to have some of these guys on the Habs. Obviously not all will pan out, but their current path is very good and I certainly won't be surprised if more than a couple end up being 'complimentary' types like Filppula and Fleischmann.

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07-13-2012, 01:44 PM
  #164
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That's a great stat.

It must be a hot summer day, this board is quite *****y today!

Great to know we have probably the best person for the job doing our scouting and that he has the trust of our GM. I just wish we had someone if Timmins' quality doing our player development. Hopefully, between Martin Lapointe, Scott Mellanby, and Patrice this will improve.

Surprising to see Detroit's record over this period, though, as mentioned, they're traded some picks and are known to keep their prospects in the minor for longer.

I'd really like to see the Habs do the same thing with guys like Leblanc, Geoffrion, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Avtsin, Gallagher, Berger, Bournival, Holland, Schultz, Naatinen, Dumont, etc.

But it's not just as simple as keeping them down there for forever because players get impatient. They have to buy in, which is what Detroit has been great at - getting players to buy in. Hopefully Bergevin can instill this kind of culture.

I get really upset whenever I think of that Gomez for McDonagh trade. What a tandem Subban-McDonagh would have been...I'll get over it one day.

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07-13-2012, 02:22 PM
  #165
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Rehashing is an exercise in self-flagellation.Why denounce Timmins as though this were a Soviet-era mock trial? Let's ease up and see what can be done with the recently drafted players. I'm also curious to see how Bergevin manages his first trade.

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07-13-2012, 02:31 PM
  #166
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Well, who outside Galchenyuk do we have with "realistic, if not expected, first line potential"? I don't agree with Pronman's ranking of #3 but it's his opinion based on his own ranking system which he presents in a fairly open manner. Just because he ranked them #3 doesn't mean you can ignore that they do have a nice group. I thought they cleaned house in 2011.

Ignoring some lesser known guys like Tvrdon for now, Tomas Jurco, Xavier Ouellet, Ryan Sproul all improved their production from their draft year significantly. Martin Frk and Jake Paterson (ranked #3 NA goalie) look like nice adds from 2012 too. Calle Jarnkrok, Riley Sheahan, Teemu Pulkkinen, Petr Mrazek from 2010 all improved with guys shinning at the WJCs (especially Mrazek winning best goalie). Then there's Tomas Tatar, Gustav Nyquist, Brendan Smith who each look like legit top 6/top 4 upside prospects. I'd be thrilled to have some of these guys on the Habs. Obviously not all will pan out, but their current path is very good and I certainly won't be surprised if more than a couple end up being 'complimentary' types like Filppula and Fleischmann.
Collberg, IMO, has "realistic, if not expected, 1st line upside." He's killed it in every international tournament he's played in, and shone at the WJC.

Well, I actually agree with you that Detroit had a good 2011 draft. I actually think they out-drafted us in that draft. However, I think the 2012 draft more than makes up for it. And I never did discount the idea that they have a nice group(I said it was decent/good). It's just not a world beating group. It's a big, but middle of the road group so far as talent goes. How many times have we fallen into that trap ourselves? Penciling in Hainsey as a #1, Perezhogin as our first line winger, and Higgins a power-forward par excellence. Even after his 27 goal season we said "oh good, a 30 goal scorer" like you've done with Filppula the now permanent 60 point player moving forward. If every one of those prospects did make it, then yes, I'd say it probably would be an excellent group. And no, not all their players will make it. Their graduation rate is somewhere around 20% if I remember correctly. You've listed their premiere prospects so they'll graduate at a higher rate than that, say, 40%. So 2 in 5 of those guys could be expected to make it.

Moving forward with that conclusion, it seems like Detroit will, indeed, be "just another team," sooner rather than later.

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07-13-2012, 02:46 PM
  #167
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Collberg, IMO, has "realistic, if not expected, 1st line upside." He's killed it in every international tournament he's played in, and shone at the WJC.

Well, I actually agree with you that Detroit had a good 2011 draft. I actually think they out-drafted us in that draft. However, I think the 2012 draft more than makes up for it. And I never did discount the idea that they have a nice group(I said it was decent/good). It's just not a world beating group. It's a big, but middle of the road group so far as talent goes. How many times have we fallen into that trap ourselves? Penciling in Hainsey as a #1, Perezhogin as our first line winger, and Higgins a power-forward par excellence. Even after his 27 goal season we said "oh good, a 30 goal scorer" like you've done with Filppula the now permanent 60 point player moving forward. If every one of those prospects did make it, then yes, I'd say it probably would be an excellent group. And no, not all their players will make it. Their graduation rate is somewhere around 20% if I remember correctly. You've listed their premiere prospects so they'll graduate at a higher rate than that, say, 40%. So 2 in 5 of those guys could be expected to make it.

Moving forward with that conclusion, it seems like Detroit will, indeed, be "just another team," sooner rather than later.
Then wouldn't the Wings prospects like Jarnkrok, Tatar, Mrazek, Pulkkinen fall into that category since they killed it in international tourneys as well recently?

Well I think he had a breakout year. I believe Pacioretty and Desharnais will continue their success moving forward too. I think Emelin will improve to be a top 4 D who'll continue being among the elite in hit totals. Perhaps I'm a bit of an optimist in that regard.

I guess I'm among those who feel they have an above middle of the pack prospect pool. I think Jarnkrok is really underrated as a prospect. He's only 20 years old and finished top 15 in the SEL scoring. I would be THRILLED if Collberg does that in the next 2-3 years.

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07-13-2012, 03:27 PM
  #168
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Then wouldn't the Wings prospects like Jarnkrok, Tatar, Mrazek, Pulkkinen fall into that category since they killed it in international tourneys as well recently?
Not really. I'm basing my opinion on what I saw of collberg in those 7 or 8 games that I watched of him. Pulkkinen had great stats, for example, but I was not impressed.

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Well I think he had a breakout year. I believe Pacioretty and Desharnais will continue their success moving forward too. I think Emelin will improve to be a top 4 D who'll continue being among the elite in hit totals. Perhaps I'm a bit of an optimist in that regard.

I guess I'm among those who feel they have an above middle of the pack prospect pool. I think Jarnkrok is really underrated as a prospect. He's only 20 years old and finished top 15 in the SEL scoring. I would be THRILLED if Collberg does that in the next 2-3 years.
Collberg could definitely surprise in 2 years. Why I say that is that he's so good at converting his chances. He sees a spot, he hits it. It's why he'll get 3 or 4 points in a period sometimes. This is a good predictor of play in a league where he'll get fewer chances: he needs to hit them. Gallagher, Pacioretty, and Leblanc in their development so far have had actually little trouble getting chances. In 09-10, Pacioretty couldn't hit the net though, and last pre-season Gallagher kept hitting the post. If he's strong enough in 2 years, he may just force our hand.

Of course, this is my opinion.

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07-13-2012, 03:33 PM
  #169
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He liked Deschamps, as did I, but Carlson would have been his pick. He had him in his top 12. It's not a guess either.
So what? If Timmins did get to pick him, Gainey and/or Gauthier would have traded him for Drury so they could complete the Gomez brainstorm.

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07-13-2012, 03:43 PM
  #170
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hfboards is a part of a website called hockey future, on this website there is a team rankings

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-ra...11-2012/page/2

16 is not easily among the worst, they are not the best but definitely not the worst.
This list doesn't mean squat.

The conversation is about the players that the Wings have drafted not about who HF considers to be a prospect. If you take into account all of he players for other teams that have graduated from prospect status this list changes drastically. The Wings have alot of players that haven't made it yet who still count as prospects, whereas most other teams have players from the same draft years that have graduated to the big club.

I have always found these rankings ridiculous as the proper way to do this is to rank each teams players who fall under a given age. For example, a list of players under 24 from each team that would be submitted for ranking. Under this scenario Detroit would be awful and this is the only scenario that matters as it pertains to drafting effectiveness.

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07-13-2012, 03:51 PM
  #171
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We traded a late 1st and 2nd for Tanguay. Sure, he did not stay, but to this day, he'd still be our most talented forward. Guy has slick skills and actually produces. The only problem was he was soft and didn't fit in as well as we'd like. I have no problem with that trade, it was the 100th anniversary and we were loading up. Everything in context matters. That being said, having Carlson right now would be pretty damn awesome.
But that's not how it works. We've got surely the best head scout in the business. If you are about to take away a 1st and 2nd, be DAMN SURE that the player you'll be getting will end up a VERY GOOD player AND FOR QUITE SOME TIME. 'Cause that's what Timmins picks are all about. Good players that end up playing in this league for quite some time, despite some of my reservations as far as the 1st rounders. So whatever context, stop gaps are fun, but be sure you'll have results to show for. Not sure we have on our minds how great we were not that long ago. Keep him if you need to, stick to your opinions and make a statement. No problem with the context.....but live with it and accept it. You don't stop gap with a player like Tanguay unless you are really a REAL contender or end up wanting to build with him. Not a 1-year wonder. But to let go a guy like that after giving so much and to also see that he's still not bad after all.....sorry but that move was bad. Sometimes, we do have to go beyond "Hey, we obtained a great player for 2 picks that don't play in the league.....GREAT MOVE". Not always like that and even moreso when you have the best head scout in the business. You suck at trading? You suck at getting the great UFA's? Well draft then....but LET THE MAN WORK HIS MAGIC.


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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Not that i strictly disagree about the fact that our picks are still players with potential rather than actual achievements, its quite unfair, for me, to compare the achievements done by players drafted in 2003, (Carter and Richards) and players (Subban, Pacioretty and McDonagh) drafted 4 years later.

(Not to mention that to make it even tougher to compare the players, Philadelphia's are forwards when only one of the four great picks Timmins made is.)
As far as comparing achievements, well I totally agree. Yet, even without McDo, Pac, Sub out of the picture, Timmins still has a great record with Price, Halak, Grabs and Streit. But my main point is just playing Mr. Obvious. I KNOW some of our guys will be stars. I know. But as of now, you can't put any of our problems with PROVEN players. You can't. You will. But not now. And then for the proven players we got around 2003-2006, well we have Eller to show for....who's also unproven. And you know my point about Price. An incredible potential. But to me, while he's about to emerge, he's just that...a GREAT potential. At one point, we can say that he has proven a lot by being in the net of this team at such a young age. But while there's nothing but up to go as far as he's concerned.....do we really know how up his ceiling is? How he will react in a playoff contender pressure situation? We do not right now.

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07-13-2012, 03:56 PM
  #172
MaxLacoste
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I'm really looking foward to see what Timmins will do next year with the draft class of 2013. One 1st round, three 2nd round. Maybe trade to move up or get two first, but if he do the same job as this year, he could fetch at least 2 solid contributors for Montreal.

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07-13-2012, 06:10 PM
  #173
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by MaxLacoste View Post
I'm really looking foward to see what Timmins will do next year with the draft class of 2013. One 1st round, three 2nd round. Maybe trade to move up or get two first, but if he do the same job as this year, he could fetch at least 2 solid contributors for Montreal.
A good advantage of Bergevin's tanking strategy is that we'll probably feel real fine about trading away some players for draft picks at the deadline.

We might easily have 6 picks in the top-60.

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07-13-2012, 06:45 PM
  #174
FlyingKostitsyn
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
A good advantage of Bergevin's tanking strategy is that we'll probably feel real fine about trading away some players for draft picks at the deadline.

We might easily have 6 picks in the top-60.
Wait?! What?

Bergevin has a tanking strategy now?

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07-13-2012, 06:46 PM
  #175
Uwey
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
We traded a late 1st and 2nd for Tanguay. Sure, he did not stay, but to this day, he'd still be our most talented forward. Guy has slick skills and actually produces. The only problem was he was soft and didn't fit in as well as we'd like. I have no problem with that trade, it was the 100th anniversary and we were loading up. Everything in context matters. That being said, having Carlson right now would be pretty damn awesome.

I was at the Metro Center the Tanguay's career changed. I can still hear the, smack, crunch, what ever you want to call it when big Tomas Kloucek of the Screaming Eagles stepped into Alex. The wobblie legs, the blood pouring from his face, I believe his face shield was cracked as well. he missed a huge amount of game the rest of that season.

Prior to that night, the only thing that separated him from Lecavalier, IMHO, was Vinnie's size, other than that Alex's skill level was right up there. & his vision for finding others on the ice was incredible. Eric Laplante was drafted in the 3rd rd by the Sharks with the help of Tanguay, as all Eric had to do was wait for the pass.

Alex was never the same player after that hit though!!!


BTW, the fact that Laplante could throw the fists with the toughest in the league at the time & win his fair share as a 16 & 17 yr old didn't hurt either, but many of his offensive stats came with the help of Alex.

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