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Old
04-01-2013, 11:36 PM
  #101
Foppa2118
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
You realize it not just Duchene out there when a goal is scored, right? PAP love him but he is a pretty miserable defensive winger, McGinn is very average. Plus we field probably the worst defense on the planet so yeah unfortunately he is going to be on the ice for some goals against.

I can also live with a line that gives up goals as long as they are contributing offensively which they are. Between McGinn, PAP and Duchene (our primary 1st line), you are looking at a combined 35 goals which is approximately 40% of all the goals we've scored this year.

I don't think Duchene is ever going to be a +40 type guy, ideally once the team as a whole he could be in the +10 range. But for now on such a bad team, I'm going to take the positives which are he is playing great offensive hockey which is his primary job. Leave the the defensive/responsible hockey to ROR who I envision as a +30 or better guy on a good team. As long as Duchene can play point per game hockey and be around +10 or slightly better hockey we will be in good shape going forward.
Definitely agree on all of this. I don't want to come off as giving importance to +/- because I've never been that guy. PAP definitely has some blame on his shoulders as well. He's similar to Duchene he works hard back checking, but all in all hasn't been that great defensively.

It's a little more important for a center though. Wingers aren't usually that important in terms of two way play on top lines, but #1 centers usually have to have a fairly strong defensive game on competitive teams.

There's a lot that goes into getting a minus in a game, and the defenseman the Avs have is obviously another factor in Duchene's number, as is him getting doubled shifted for defensive zone faceoffs and such. I agree, on all of your points, and my expecations for him wouldn't be a super high plus number, but it's got to be a plus of some sort, and close to the +10 kind of number you mentioned.

Given he's mainly a 5 on 5 kind of point producer, him having a minus number as the #1C is a sign of part of this team's troubles. I don't want to harp on it too much because he's been so good offensively this season, but for this team to be a playoff team, he's got to get better defensively, and be a plus player. I base that as much if not more on what I've seen from his defensive coverage, as his acutal +/-.

There's a lot that goes into it, and it includes his linemates, and the D core of this team, and over aggressive forecheck system from Sacco. I just noticed his -7 number, and given all the factors I thought it should be pointed out in fairness, and in trying to analyze this teams problem areas.

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04-02-2013, 02:12 AM
  #102
22FUTON9
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I think if sacco uses him properly on the PP his PP points will start coming. Didn't he have like 10pp goals in his rookie season? He needs to play downlow, instead of on the point to be successful.

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04-02-2013, 08:40 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by col9duchie View Post
I think if sacco uses him properly on the PP his PP points will start coming. Didn't he have like 10pp goals in his rookie season? He needs to play downlow, instead of on the point to be successful.
Everyone but Sacco realizes this.

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04-02-2013, 08:48 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by col9duchie View Post
I think if sacco uses him properly on the PP his PP points will start coming. Didn't he have like 10pp goals in his rookie season? He needs to play downlow, instead of on the point to be successful.
There's a hundred things wrong with Sacco's plans. But putting Duchy at the point has been a 50/50 thing. On the good side, Duchy keeps the puck in the zone better than most of our players that roam or aren't fast enough. On the down side, Duchy is not at all lethal from long distances. Putting him on the right side halfboards, PAP at the right, Staz and ROR at the points and Lando in the crease is the only scenario in his five forward scheme that will work well.

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04-02-2013, 09:07 AM
  #105
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Duchene's name was in the conversation for Selke considerations on TSN not to long ago. So according to those guys his Defense has been very good.

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04-02-2013, 09:08 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by col9duchie View Post
I think if sacco uses him properly on the PP his PP points will start coming. Didn't he have like 10pp goals in his rookie season? He needs to play downlow, instead of on the point to be successful.
I'm actually encouraged by the fact that Duchene has such a low PP point output. This means he's already good at getting 5 on 5 points which should be more difficult. Once Sacco the moron goes and Duchene gets to go down on the wing, where he belongs his PP points will increase.

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04-02-2013, 09:12 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Duchene's name was in the conversation for Selke considerations on TSN not to long ago. So according to those guys his Defense has been very good.
those guys dont watch the games obviously. No way is matt's 2 way game even close to guys like datsyuk, Bergeron etc. Its gotten better but still needs work. I like Matty winning alot of faceoffs though

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04-02-2013, 11:55 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
I'm actually encouraged by the fact that Duchene has such a low PP point output. This means he's already good at getting 5 on 5 points which should be more difficult. Once Sacco the moron goes and Duchene gets to go down on the wing, where he belongs his PP points will increase.
Yeah, I'm really happy abut his 5 on 5 play, but it really bugs me that if we had a proper coach, he might be in the top ten in scoring.

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04-02-2013, 11:59 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by col9duchie View Post
I think if sacco uses him properly on the PP his PP points will start coming. Didn't he have like 10pp goals in his rookie season? He needs to play downlow, instead of on the point to be successful.
The PP points is a side issue. The reason i brought it up is because most of his points are 5 on 5, so that means he's getting plusses for those points, which means he's also getting a lot of minuses to be -7.

30 to be exact, if you discount SH and EN goals against. It's a good thing he's been a point per game player, because otherwise he'd have a really ugly +/- number right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Duchene's name was in the conversation for Selke considerations on TSN not to long ago. So according to those guys his Defense has been very good.
Whoever decided to bring up his name, or inform one of the commentators about it, is an idiot. He's not even in the top 10 or 15. His awareness and positioning need a lot of work.

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04-02-2013, 09:53 PM
  #110
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Dutchy's on pace for 35 goals and 82 pts in a full year

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04-02-2013, 09:58 PM
  #111
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Dutchy's on pace for 35 goals and 82 pts in a full year
Maybe next year.

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04-02-2013, 10:04 PM
  #112
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Maybe next year.
Just picture him with Drouin and Pap as wingers if we somehow miss out on jones ::drool::

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04-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by S3rkie View Post
Just picture him with Drouin and Pap as wingers if we somehow miss out on jones ::drool::
After a full offseason and training camp, Sacco will have them dumping and chasing in no time.

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04-02-2013, 10:12 PM
  #114
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After a full offseason and training camp, Sacco will have them dumping and chasing in no time.
That guy needs to write a book on how to keep a job whilst under performing.

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