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Rick Nash continued - NYR BOS PHI PIT DET SJS

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Old
07-15-2012, 10:19 PM
  #876
schabadoo
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post


28 is the new 34 I guess.
Nash's stats, no?

79, 67, 66, 59...

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07-15-2012, 10:21 PM
  #877
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Of course there wouldn't. Columbus would be too giddy over the fleecing they pulled off.
Giddy? I'd be giddy if Howson convinced Rick Nash to stay. Anything less than that those proposed "fleecings" and Columbus becomes a significantly worse team. They are a worse team even with those deals.

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07-15-2012, 10:22 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Giddy? I'd be giddy if Howson convinced Rick Nash to stay. Anything less than that those proposed "fleecings" and Columbus becomes a significantly worse team. They are a worse team even with those deals.
I was thinking about that as well. Honestly, it kinda sucks. Oh well.

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07-15-2012, 10:23 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by schabadoo View Post
Nash's stats, no?

79, 67, 66, 59...
Damn thats a lot of goals. Nash is definitely worth that big contract.

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07-15-2012, 10:35 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by schabadoo View Post
Nash's stats, no?

79, 67, 66, 59...
Goals are where it's at, not overall points.

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07-15-2012, 10:50 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by schabadoo View Post
Krieder/Dubinsky/+?

Yeah, fleecing.

With Nash's contract, his gradual reduction in output, and the very real possibility of a significant reduction of the cap, I'd think Stepan or Krieder + a pick would do it.
Stepan, Dubinsky & a pick is exactly what Howson is looking for. Let's face it, Krieder is nearly untouchable. Hags and Ani don't fit with the CBJ.

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07-15-2012, 11:00 PM
  #882
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Goals are where it's at, not overall points.
It still shows that he's a declining player, which was the point being contended there.

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07-15-2012, 11:04 PM
  #883
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It still shows that he's a declining player, which was the point being contended there.
Every player on the CBJ has been on a decline the last two years. There team sucks as a whole. Different situations would breed different results. But whatever.

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07-15-2012, 11:10 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by DangleDman View Post
Stepan, Dubinsky & a pick is exactly what Howson is looking for. Let's face it, Krieder is nearly untouchable. Hags and Ani don't fit with the CBJ.
That would probably work....I wouldn't love it by any means though.

Whatever happens regarding Nash and any team, it will be a long time before he's traded. At least until after the new CBA agreement is finalized.

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07-15-2012, 11:32 PM
  #885
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It still shows that he's a declining player, which was the point being contended there.
I think it's more indicative of the way the league is going than just Nash himself. He's not the only one suffering. So too is Ovechkin, Staal, Getzlaf, etc.

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07-16-2012, 12:17 AM
  #886
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Oh no! You only may get 30-40 goals? How terrible...
Who's saying it's terrible?

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07-16-2012, 12:19 AM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Isn't it reasonable to believe that, if given better teammates, Rick Nash will produce at a higher level?

That's generally what happens when players go from playing with linemates like Vermette and Brassard to Gaborik and Richards.
It doesn't always work that way. You would think so, but it's not certain.

I though Richards would continue to be a 90 pt player with Gaborik and many other Ranger fans are guilty of thinking this too. Nothing is certain.

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07-16-2012, 12:19 AM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
I respect Mike Richards. He's far from a bum.

Answer this question:
If Richards is so great and so respected and so valuable why would a great organization with a history of winning like the Flyers deal him in the first place? Richards loved PHilly so its not like he was a malcontent.

Especially for a player as the centerpiece that you think is so (overrated) in Schenn.

Hmmm.....
As Kingspest stated, nobody knows.

Dryisland speculation. Needed a scapegoat.

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07-16-2012, 12:29 AM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
It doesn't always work that way. You would think so, but it's not certain.

I though Richards would continue to be a 90 pt player with Gaborik and many other Ranger fans are guilty of thinking this too. Nothing is certain.
Yea, it's more of a general rule of thumb. It doesn't always happen.

In the Brad Richards situation, you can make a good argument that he didn't really get better linemates. In Dallas, he was playing with Ericksson and Benn. In New York, he had "only" Gaborik.

That's a lateral move more than anything.

And we honestly won't know until Nash lines up in Ranger blue, whether or not he would produce more with Richards. We can only make educated guesses. It is, as you said, only speculation, though I still think it is reasonable to expect an increase of around 10-15 assists if he played with Richards and/or Gaborik.

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07-16-2012, 12:33 AM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Yea, it's more of a general rule of thumb. It doesn't always happen.

In the Brad Richards situation, you can make a good argument that he didn't really get better linemates. In Dallas, he was playing with Ericksson and Benn. In New York, he had "only" Gaborik.

That's a lateral move more than anything.

And we honestly won't know until Nash lines up in Ranger blue, whether or not he would produce more with Richards. We can only make educated guesses. It is, as you said, only speculation, though I still think it is reasonable to expect an increase of around 10-15 assists if he played with Richards and/or Gaborik.
Perhaps. Richards played with Benn and Neal for the majority of the season, so yeah maybe not the best example.

Let me rephrase it

Gaborik and Richards were expected to play together, turns out they play on separate lines for most of the year. Gaborik's production went on par with his career highs while Richards went down. Pretty unpredictable stuff.

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07-16-2012, 05:37 AM
  #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Yea, it's more of a general rule of thumb. It doesn't always happen.

In the Brad Richards situation, you can make a good argument that he didn't really get better linemates. In Dallas, he was playing with Ericksson and Benn. In New York, he had "only" Gaborik.

That's a lateral move more than anything.

And we honestly won't know until Nash lines up in Ranger blue, whether or not he would produce more with Richards. We can only make educated guesses. It is, as you said, only speculation, though I still think it is reasonable to expect an increase of around 10-15 assists if he played with Richards and/or Gaborik.
I don't expect Nash to play with Richards.

I think that the chemistry that Richards showed with Gaborik late in the season is going to carry over to the 12/13 season and should we acquire Nash, he's playing with Stepan and Callahan while Kreider gets the top line LW spot.

That's just my opinion

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07-16-2012, 06:24 AM
  #892
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It still shows that he's a declining player, which was the point being contended there.
meh, I'd be willing to bet if you get Nash out there with Seguin and/or Bergeron his points would get back to where he was if not more. Same if he were to get out there with Datsyuk or Thornton or any quality line. Aside from Nash, the output from Blue Jackets players was pretty dismal.

good lord, just looking at Columbus team stats, Nash is the only winger to tally over 20 points... is that right? that's horrible

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07-16-2012, 07:44 AM
  #893
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I don't expect Nash to play with Richards.

I think that the chemistry that Richards showed with Gaborik late in the season is going to carry over to the 12/13 season and should we acquire Nash, he's playing with Stepan and Callahan while Kreider gets the top line LW spot.

That's just my opinion
Don't know who else the Rangers can offer to get Nash (preferably limited to Dubinsky, AA, Miller, picks.), but the idea as I understand it is to keep Stepan to play with Kreider, with whom he's had good chemistry and productivity, so I'd expect Nash to play on the top line.

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07-16-2012, 08:43 AM
  #894
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good lord, just looking at Columbus team stats, Nash is the only winger to tally over 20 points... is that right? that's horrible
Prospal and Umberger also played wing....

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07-16-2012, 08:49 AM
  #895
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Originally Posted by bostone737 View Post
meh, I'd be willing to bet if you get Nash out there with Seguin and/or Bergeron his points would get back to where he was if not more. Same if he were to get out there with Datsyuk or Thornton or any quality line. Aside from Nash, the output from Blue Jackets players was pretty dismal.

good lord, just looking at Columbus team stats, Nash is the only winger to tally over 20 points... is that right? that's horrible
That's not right. Vinny Prospal who played wing almost exclusively tallied 16G 39A for 55P and RJ Umberger who repeatedly gets listed as a center even though 95% of the time he plays wing tallied 20G 20A for 40.

Not world beating numbers by any means, but those were the other wingers who scored over 20. Dorsett also finished with exactly 20 points.

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07-16-2012, 09:15 AM
  #896
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Originally Posted by DangleDman View Post
Stepan, Dubinsky & a pick is exactly what Howson is looking for. Let's face it, Krieder is nearly untouchable. Hags and Ani don't fit with the CBJ.
If Stepan was going in a deal, it would have been done a long time ago. The Rangers would have wanted more time to acquire another #2C.

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07-16-2012, 09:30 AM
  #897
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1) Stepan is a better player now, Schenn has more upside, but personally I don't think Schenn ends up a much better player(if he does). Then again, I'm not a Schenn fan in the slightest, so...

2) Because he just scored 34 points, not 54. Its pretty obvious. If Nash scored almost 40 goals, I don't think Howson would rest until he got Kreider and Stepan and more.

3) GM's dont value Dubinsky as a 34 point player, or Nash as a guy who will only get you only 30 goals. Fans are very short sighted as far as player go in general.

4) I'm going to have to blatantly disagree with that. Mike Richards at the time was pretty close to a young 1C on a cheap term hit, Los Angeles didn't even have to give up a first. Just an early 3rd(with Schenn, obviously). At the time Toronto was close to giving up Kulemin(30 goal man at the time), Kadri and draft pick as well. Oh, hindsight.

5) I agree with San Jose and Boston. Stepan, Kreider are not in the same league as Couture, Lucic, Seguin. Thats fine, I'd rather have Krejci than one of Stepan, Kreider(assuming Krejci is more professional about it than Carter).
1) Fair enough

2) Everybody thinks Dubinsky = Brandon Prust or something. This guy is not a 34 point player. That's ridiculous. Wayne Simmonds had 1 good year. Dubs is still young. He had a bad year. It happens. As said by others before in this thread, let's see how he comes back before we determine he is a 3/4th line player. The guy was on his way to becoming a perennial 50/60 point guy with grit and responsible defensively, and had one bad year, and now he's trash. It's a lame argument.

3) I agree

4) So, you think the Kings, giving up the heralded Brayden Schenn, who you admittedly don't like as a player, but regarded as one of the best prospects offensively at the time, and Wayne Simmonds, a future power forward 20 goal character guy, and a pick, for Mike Richards, who had never won anything, was small, and had more than 70 points twice and a career high of 31 goals, plus a draft pick, is not an overpayment? That is definitely an overpayment. Personally, I would not have traded Brayden Schenn in a deal unless I recovered a legitimately elite player. Richards is second tier. And they gave up more than Schenn.

5) Seguin, Lucic and Couture I agree have more value than Stepan or Kreider. But Kreider has tons of value. Big kid, great skater with goal scoring ability. Stepan has more value and is a better player than you are giving him credit. He is right there below that Seguin Couture level of young talent. He's a notch below, not three or four notches. Either way, my point was they were not going to give any of those guys up in a deal for Nash.

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07-16-2012, 09:39 AM
  #898
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Goals are where it's at, not overall points.
If Nash is declining then Dubinsky is falling down like a rock. 54-->34 in 1 year.

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07-16-2012, 09:42 AM
  #899
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He better just pack it in then I guess, I mean he'll never be better then 51 point offensive dynamo Stepan. He'll never play an 82 game season injury free either. He might as well not even play his 2nd year in the NHL seeing as his first was terrible and he will never improve after his rookie season as a 20 year old through multiple injuries.
Not a fair statement, while I believe Schenn is the better prospect, Stepan had 51 points and is only a year older than Schenn. Let's not make it like he's peaked because you're frustrated.

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07-16-2012, 09:44 AM
  #900
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It still shows that he's a declining player, which was the point being contended there.
You take into consideration his points ONLY and make conclusion that he's declining. Going this way I can tell you that the guy who had 109-66-36 points over the last 3 seasons is a toast. But he just signed 10-years contract.

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